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Graphic Novel talk:The Man with Too Much Brains

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checklist for The Golden Goose

Checklist for The Man with Too Much Brains

checklist for Hana and Drucker's Plot Discovered

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Episode article:

_X_ Graphic Novel screencap (450x350)
_X_ Title screencap
_X_ Blurbs
_X_ Summary
_X_ Easter Egg
_X_ Animated video

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_X_ GN redirects: The Man with Too Much Brains
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_X_ Update Portal:Graphic Novel Characters as appropriate
_X_ Elle
_X_ Bob
_X_ The Haitian
_X_ Update any Groups
_X_ The Company
_X_ Update appearances

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_X_ Matt Neuenberg
_X_ Matt Neuenberg's classmate
_X_ Matt Neuenberg's teacher
_X_ Talent show booker
_X_ (list needed characters/groups here)

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_X_ Loneliness
_X_ (list themes referenced here)

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_X_ Enhanced memory
_X_ Examples of lightning

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_X_ Matt Neuenberg's high school
_X_ Matt Neuenberg's cell
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Summary

  • If anyone would like to edit it, make it better, that's fine with me, I just started it with the main points of the GN. --Dman dustin 06:41, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Needs more Bishop!

Or at least thats what they seem to think with the abundance of Elle and Bob in recent GNs. --  Seclusion  talk / contribs 07:04, 15 January 2008 (EST)

  • I feel the same way about Bennet. He has a lot of appearances. I want to see more of Matt, D.L., Adam, Hiro, Sylar and Mohinder (the strongest people in all the known galaxies). --DocM 07:05, 15 January 2008 (EST)
    • It could mean Elle and Bob's future is grim and they might not last very long, so they're giving us as much as they can so we aren't disappointed with their storyline if they end up dead on the show --Dman dustin 07:11, 15 January 2008 (EST)
      • Interesting Theory. However, Episodes and novels are not usually inter-connected and thus episodes are not influenced by novels. Noah's been in tons and is still looking peachy for someone who was supposed to die 7 episodes in. --  Seclusion  talk / contribs 07:39, 15 January 2008 (EST)
        • Plus, it's very unusual to make somebody a series regular, and then kill them after only five episodes. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:45, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Sizzlin'

It's nice to read another novel that sizzles with electrifying hotness. :) Also, I liked how Elle introduced herself like Sarah Corvus of Bionic Woman. But I still find it odd that Elle has no partner and that the show and the graphic novels have never explained why she doesn't have one.--MiamiVolts (talk) 09:46, 15 January 2008 (EST)

  • My only explanations for this are that are that she is Bob's daughter (she might get some special treatment), or there simply wasn't a partner available to work with her, and so when Mohinder came in, she was teamed up with him. --DocM 10:49, 15 January 2008 (EST)
    • No, Elle wasn't Mohinder's partner, Niki was. Though having her team with Mohinder wouldn't have been a bad idea, imho.--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:01, 15 January 2008 (EST)
      • Well, I was just thinking of Cautionary Tales rather than Out of Time, which is why I said Elle teamed up with Mohinder. --DocM 11:08, 15 January 2008 (EST)
        • In Cautionary Tales, Bob is also with Elle and Mohinder, so I can't really say that Mohinder is Elle's partner even then. And afterwards, Elle isn't assigned to be watching over Mohinder, she has been demissioned and stashed in the Company's facility. It is only by accident that she stumbles upon the video surveillance of Mohinder's lab and decides to go off and help him "on her own".--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:50, 15 January 2008 (EST)
          • I only thought Elle was a partner because she works with Mohinder to try and subdue Noah - an actual assignment. All Niki did was watch over him, then punch him in the face and break his nose. And then leave the Company. --DocM 12:54, 15 January 2008 (EST)
            • Elle, Mohinder and Bob were a team for a time, but I wouldn't call them partners. Niki was assigned to Mohinder by Bob, so that's different, though you're right that their partnership didn't last long.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:01, 15 January 2008 (EST)
              • Elle may be the Wesley Crusher of The Company. I wonder if she isn't officially a part of it but rather since she essentially lives there they let her pretend. (Admin 13:11, 15 January 2008 (EST))
                • That may work. She does spend an awful lot of time at public schools, according to the graphic novels. Coming soon: Saved By the Bishop. Or Company Days. Sunday, Monday, Company Days. Tuesday, Wednesday, Company Days. Thursday, Friday, Company Days. Saturday. What a day. We're gonna bag and tag you! --DocM 13:13, 15 January 2008 (EST)
                • Yeah, she may be a "junior" member of the Company like Wesley Crusher, but I can't see her being the only "junior" member. It still seems off/odd to me so I added "Why doesn't Elle have a partner?" as a potential question for Ryan to ask the producers in tonight's interview.--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:37, 15 January 2008 (EST)
                  • I don't mind asking them as producers of the show, but since they're writers and haven't written a scene for Elle, it's not at the top of my list of questions. I'll have to see how it feels--if they're up for a bunch of questions, I have plenty! :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:23, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Timeline

This novel is rather recent since it occurs in 2008, but is there any mention of a month? I think it's probably in Spring '08, but I didn't notice any further timeline clues. Did anyone else?--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:01, 15 January 2008 (EST)

  • Considering that the timeline is so behind real time already, I'd say it'd be out of place if the novel took place in spring if 2008. If it took place in spring of 2008 it would take place around the same time as Quarantine (albeit in a different timeline). -- Lulu (talk) 10:16, 15 January 2008 (EST)
    • The talent show banner says '2008'. The question is, though, was the talent show held in Spring or Fall '08? I think it's probably spring to correspond to real time and Quarantine, but the novel doesn't say as far as I can tell.--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:21, 15 January 2008 (EST)
      • Oh, I missed that. It rare of a Graphic novel to be ahead of us, timeline wise. I would guess that it's spring, only because I've never heard of a talent show in fall. However, that's assuming. I guess it would be best to say "Sometime in 2008." -- Lulu (talk) 10:29, 15 January 2008 (EST)
        • Right, it's rare, but it does happen that we get to see a graphic novel in the future. Hopefully, if the novel is continued as the 'to be continued...' suggests, we'll get another clue as to what month it is. We do know that it's Matt Neuenberg's birthday...--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:45, 15 January 2008 (EST)
          • I wouldn't assume it's the spring any more than I would assume it's the winter--why couldn't it be January 2008? I also wouldn't assume that a cake means it's his birthday--I see the argument, but I read it as Elle just cheering him up. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:28, 15 January 2008 (EST)
            • The Spring semester of schooling includes January, so that's possible, but I would be more convinced of that if I saw a 'Happy New Year' poster/banner. Also, you're right that it doesn't have to be Matt's birthday.--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:30, 15 January 2008 (EST)
  • Maybe it's one of those artist easter eggs. The artist could be referencing that the novel was published in 2008. Or maybe it's an artist mistake, like with the mistake with Future Hiro. --Dman dustin 16:56, 15 January 2008 (EST)
  • I think it was a mistake. The Haitian is present in the facility, which means that this was a while ago. Maybe sometime near January 2007, or earlier. I don't think the Haitian would rejoin the Company. It could also be an real-world "reference" to the new year. --Ice Vision (talk) 23:59, 16 January 2008 (EST)
    • I'd love to be able to ask the author, but I can't figure out for the life of me who the writers even are. Ugh. Maybe Joe Tolerico will shed some light on it for me. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:01, 17 January 2008 (EST)

What a cheesy title

9--it's everywhere!

Sounds like a bad 50s sci-fi movie. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 17:40, 15 January 2008 (EST)

  • You're on the right track...The title is a nod to Steve Martin's The Man with Two Brains, which itself is a spoof of cheesy sci-fi movies from the 60s, like The Brain That Wouldn't Die. And yes, I'm not a big fan of the title either. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:05, 15 January 2008 (EST)
    • I didn't mind the title too much, though I agree it could have been better. This ability appears to be very much like Charlie's. It might be interesting if they did something like The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes (1969) and (1995).--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:21, 15 January 2008 (EST)
      • Or maybe Plan 9 from The Company. (Admin 19:46, 15 January 2008 (EST))
        • Heh, I wondered where the 9 originated from... now I know. ;)--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:02, 15 January 2008 (EST)
      • I would have preferred "The Man With Too (Many) Brains", since "brains" is usually treated as if countable (i.e. someone has "fewer brains" than someone else, not "less brains" than someone else), but that's just me.--Hardvice (talk) 22:15, 17 January 2008 (EST)
        • There's the expression of "being two minds" about something, which means you have two different thoughts about something. So "too many brains" would mean multiple personality disorder, at least to me, and that's not what Matt's power was about. I do agree that the title is cheesy, though.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:43, 17 January 2008 (EST)
          • What does "being of two minds" have to do with it? Grammatically, there's a difference between an abstract noun and a concrete noun. "Brains" is a concrete noun and usually takes "many" and "fewer" instead of "much" and "less", which apply to abstract nouns or unquantifiable nouns. You take "many" pills when you have "much" pain (and you spend "less" time in line at the grocery store when you have 10 or "fewer" items, despite what the signs often say). And while you don't literally possess multiple brains, it almost always follows the concrete noun pattern (ditto "muscles"). It's not a matter of personal preference. It's a matter of standard usage.--Hardvice (talk) 22:51, 17 January 2008 (EST)
            • There's "brains" as a noun meaning physical organs like those in your head, and "brains" as an adjective referring to a person being really smart. The novel used "brains" in the adjective sense. "Too much brains" is similar to "too much courage". It wouldn't be proper to say "too many courage" or "too few courage".--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:01, 17 January 2008 (EST)
              • Neither "brains" nor "courage" is an adjective, ever, and certainly not in the examples you give. An adjective describes a noun. ("Brainy" and "courageous" are the adjective forms -- you wouldn't say "he's very brains" or "she's very courage" like you would use adjectives -- "he's very fat" or "she's very sad") "Brains" and "courage" remain nouns. "Courage", however, is an abstract noun, which is why it takes "less"/"much". "Brains" is not an abstract noun, even when it's being used figuratively.--Hardvice (talk) 03:36, 18 January 2008 (EST)
                • You're right, "adjective" was the wrong word. "Courage" is an abstract noun, not an adjective, thanks for the correction. But I think then "brains" can be both an abstract noun and a concrete noun, depending on how it's used. The best definition I can find for this is MSN encarta, and it gives certain examples where "brains" is used to describe one's intelligence, which is an abstract thing, vs. describing the physical organ in your head.--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:22, 18 January 2008 (EST)
                  • My point all along has been that, per standard usage, "brains" is treated as a concrete noun even when it's being used figuratively. It's a bit of a weird one that way. Someone has "many" brains and "many" muscles, even though the actual physical quantity of neither brains nor muscles differs from someone who has "few" brains" and "few" muscles. It's idiomatic.--Hardvice (talk) 13:28, 18 January 2008 (EST)
                    • I don't think we're going to agree on this one, but the abstract noun form for "muscles" is singular ("muscle"). You can say that a person has "too much or too little muscle", referring to their strength in general abstractly. When you say a person has "many muscles", it means something different to me--that the person is well-built with muscles showing over most of his or her body.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:25, 18 January 2008 (EST)
                      • I don't see why we have to agree. "Standard usage holds that 'brains' is treated as a concrete noun" is a statement of fact, not a statement of opinion. It's either wrong or it's right. It's like saying "standard usage holds that lists which contain items which include commas should be delimited by semicolons". You are, of course, allowed to believe whatever you like, but your belief doesn't change the way the English language works. And yes, "muscle" is a non-quantifiable noun (not really an abstract noun), and is different from "muscles"--which is why I didn't mention it. "Muscles", however, follows exactly the same standard usage pattern as "brains": even when used figuratively, it is treated as a concrete noun.--Hardvice (talk) 05:07, 19 January 2008 (EST)
                        • But I agree with you there. If we are using the Oxford English Dictionary to determine standard usage, then you are correct in that Oxford doesn't define "brains" to mean intelligence in general, nor does it define the synonym "brainpower", though for some reason it does recognize "smarts". Opinion comes into play more when you discuss colloquial language, which can differ regionally.--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:01, 19 January 2008 (EST)
                          • You have managed to miss my point yet again. I am not now denying, nor have I ever denied, that "brains" is used figuratively to mean "smarts" or "intelligence". The point I have stated again and again (and again) is that, even when used figuratively, "brains" is treated as a concrete noun. That's not my opinion, and there's nothing colloquial or regional about it. It's just standard usage. This whole conversation is patently absurd; it's like arguing with somebody that, in their opinion, water is in fact dry, and then having them bolster their argument with analogies to dry ice and dry cleaning, neither of which involves water in the slightest. If your goal has been to make my head explode, then well done. I don't mean to sound rude, but it's just such a weird conversation that I keep having to walk away from it in amazement.--Hardvice (talk) 17:11, 22 January 2008 (EST)
                            • Hey, not everyone is a grammar expert. Sorry if I busted your bubble there. I didn't mean to weird you out, but I do find these intricacies of language interesting. Please accept my skepticism and relax.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:02, 22 January 2008 (EST)

Add to appearances

Considering where they live I'd add this to the Primatech Facility page. Therequiembellishere 23:37, 16 January 2008 (EST)

  • Is there any evidence of that, or just a good guess? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:47, 16 January 2008 (EST)
    • Well the familiar cells and Elle being there at all. Therequiembellishere 00:23, 17 January 2008 (EST)
      • Right, it most likely is the same facility, but I don't see any proof. I mean, I guess the cells are the same, but it's so generic it could be anywhere. Personally, I'd just rather leave the place as Matt Neuenberg's cell, and that's it. I'm not opposed to saying the cell is located within Primatech Research, but I'd really just rather leave it alone since we don't know. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:30, 17 January 2008 (EST)

How was this written?

I thought "The Ten Brides of Takezo Kensei" was the last to be published until the strike ended. Therequiembellishere 17:42, 17 January 2008 (EST)

  • Joe Pokaski also wrote a Noah-centric GN. Other than that, everything that is written is without the consultation of the writers. I imagine NBC is hiring non-WGA writers to write these...which is also why it's so difficult to find information on John O'Hara and Carri Wagner. After I get my responses back from Joe Tolerico, I'll ask him more details. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:46, 17 January 2008 (EST)
    • Hell, NBC should hire some of us. At least we can keep some timeline continuity.--Bob (talk) 18:12, 17 January 2008 (EST)
  • Well, first, NBC contacts some writers. Then, they start on a script....--Hero!(talk)(contribs) 20:59, 17 January 2008 (EST)
  • I thought that the people writing the graphic novels were part of Aspen Comics and not tied in with the NBC writers. --Pinkkeith 11:35, 18 January 2008 (EST)
    • Many of the original graphic novel artist were from Aspen (like Micah Gunnell and Michael Turner), but the writers have been from a variety of sources. However, as far as I understand it, these are the first graphic novels that haven't been consulted with the writing team. There have always been outside writers (like the guys from Man of Action, or Mark Sable) and they were given lots of freedom, but their scripts were always approved by the writing team (like Aron Coleite, Joe Pokaski, and probably Ollie Grigsby). Chuck Kim said that he had no idea about these last two graphic novels and that none of the rest of the writing team did either. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:08, 18 January 2008 (EST)