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Real "Disorder" Powers

Dr. Coolidge said that people who have a "disorder" such as deafness or blindness sometimes see sound as colors. This is a pretty easy "disorder" to turn into an ability (just make the noise source glow with light - easy). But Dr. Coolidge said that sometimes people can possibly hear numbers. That would be kind of hard to turn into an ability. How could they do that if they chose this instead of seeing sound as colors (I doubt they will make another disorder ability, which is why I said "instead").--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:25, 17 November 2009 (EST)

It hasn't been shown for a while

I'm afraid we won't see Emma learn how to crack more walls. Green.gif AltesUTC CH 07:50, 5 December 2009 (EST)

  • They'll prob bring her back to the show next episode. Think of it from a writer's point of view. The best time for Emma to begin a "relationship" with Peter would be after some tragic has happen. With the "death" of Nathan I would say now is a good time. --OutbackZack 08:02, 5 December 2009 (EST)
    • We will, Emma is coming back, don't worry.--Kleith 09:05, 5 December 2009

Siren's Song

The current name is far too narrow after the events of Upon This Rock, and the only canon name I can remember is "Siren's Song". Not a great name, but if nobody can think of a more appropriate name it'll have to do.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:35, 4 January 2010 (EST)

  • Thing is Samuel said that was part of her ability but not her entire ability. He said her emotions controlled sound and gave them specific effects. I'm just guessing but I think Emotion Sound Manipulation works better in this case or something to that effect. I wonder if her ability is more than that though. I wonder if she can get whatever she wants through emotion and sound. Such as making someone fall asleep by wanting them to fall asleep and then playing the her Cello. Although I suppose Siren's Song works, but I don't know it sounds limiting, and Samuel was comparing Emma's ability to it but didn't specifically say that's her ability. I think the equivalent of emotion sound manipulation would work to describe her ability in its entirety. Her emotions control the sound produced and she's manipulating other aspects. Although Emotion Sound Manipulation exactly sounds weird, maybe someone can refine it a little better.--Dman dustin 02:18, 5 January 2010 (EST)
    • what about Empathic sound manipulation?-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 02:20, 5 January 2010 (EST)
      • I was thinking about that, but I didn't want it to seem like Lydia's ability or Peter's original ability. Although now mulling it over, I suppose it is better than "Emotion sound manipulation"--Dman dustin 02:23, 5 January 2010 (EST)
    • We were given a canon name however, we should probably take that into consideration. After all, freezing only covers about half of Tracy's ability.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:23, 5 January 2010 (EST)
      • I vote for giving her the same ability as Echo and Jesse. It's basically the same thing, after all.--Gibbeynator 07:25, 6 January 2010 (EST)
        • No, they don't seem to have the same abilities. Echo/Jesse could only manipulate sound waves' frequency, amplitude and timbre. But Emma can somehow channel her own emotions into sound (specifically music). Anyway, we saw that Emma can't only create a Siren's song effect; we know she can channel her rage to produce a blast too. Samuel said that Emma's true ability was to make her emotions become one with the music, so what about "musical empathy" or "empathic musicality"?--Referos 09:11, 6 January 2010 (EST)
          • 'Musical Empathy' sounds good to me. She can't manipulate the sound, or even music, directly, but the music she plays takes on an effect depending on her emotions, and affects the emotions of those around her. If we don't think it's specifically music, but all sound, then perhaps 'Aural Empathy'? --EkimCF 12:01, 6 January 2010 (EST)
            • "Musical empathy" sounds pretty good actually :) I was thinking something along the lines of "Empathic synesthesia" ? -- Leckie -- Talk 12:13, 6 January 2010 (EST)
              • My votes for Musical Empathy, just saying. -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 15:26, 6 January 2010 (EST)
                • Cellokinesis? Had to be done, sorry. In reality, I'm fine with musical empathy. I prefer "music" over "aural" because I doubt she can attract people with one sound, she most likely has to create some type of pattern. Whether it's banging on trash cans or playing in a symphony orchestra, it's music. Perhaps Enhanced musical empathy, because if I'm in the mood I can channel my emotions into music by sitting at the piano.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:43, 6 January 2010 (EST)
  • A few notes as we think on this: "enhanced synesthesia" is not actually canon. We took a term that describes one who can see sounds (synesthetic) and applied it to a power name. Obviously, her power is FAR greater than just that. Siren's song is actually extremely appropriate of a name, in my opinion. Sound manipulation in the past has referred to someone who can manipulate the physical properties of sound, but not the effect it has on someone. Be careful in attaching "empathic" to this, as her empathic connection to her power is exhibited in a large quantity of characters, and isn't entirely definitive of the power itself. Additionally, her power appears to extend beyond simply music (she can see noise), so using "musical empathy" would not be entirely correct. Also note that "music" is a very loose definition of a type of noise (where do you draw the line between noise and music?). The strictest definition of her power is that she can 1) see sound, 2) manipulate it to create physical force, and 3) use it to attract or repel people without their conscious knowledge. Siren's song is the best fit I can see for this power, but something like sonic empathy or sonic hypnosis may theoretically be just as applicable. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 16:15, 6 January 2010 (EST)
    • All three would work fine with me. --OutbackZack 16:27, 6 January 2010 (EST)
      • As a note, the fact that emotions are involved doesn't always warrant the word "empathy" in a name. In this situation, it's not even close to accurate. She's not empathizing with anyone, nor is she working with anyones emotions but her own. She can use the music in sync with her own emotions, not other peoples. The music just has an allure to it. So Siren's song, though not the prettiest name, is the most accurate thing we have that is canon, but something to the effect of "Emotional sound manipulation" makes sense as well.--Riddler 16:27, 6 January 2010 (EST)
        • I'll be fine with most of the aforementioned names, but I do think Siren's song is the best choice. It was explicitly said in an episode, so it's also the safest choice. Is there enough interest to start a consensus?--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 16:30, 6 January 2010 (EST)
          • Though I agreed with it earlier, in retrospect, Siren's song ISN'T the best option. It doesn't explain that she can see the sounds and use them in a physical sense, i.e. the crack in the wall. A Siren's song only effects people in an alluring way. This is gonna be a tricky one. "The term "siren song" refers to an appeal that is hard to resist but that, if heeded, will lead to a bad result. " Noun 1. siren song - the enticing appeal of something alluring but potentially dangerous;--Riddler 20:22, 6 January 2010 (EST)
            • So she can see sound, and manipulate it (cause it to crack walls or bring people in). Right? --OutbackZack 20:32, 6 January 2010 (EST)
            • The way the ability seems to work is this: She can see sound as color (which appears to be a side-effect of her ability, rather then the focus of the ability itself), and manipulate sounds depending on how she feels. If she's angry, she can damage things, if she's hopeful, she can attract people. Although more superpower then evolutionary adaptation, there's a lot they can do with this ability. Ideally, I think the name needs to mention sound, emotions, and the conversion taking place. The most basic name I could think of then was "Sonic emotional conversion", but that doesn't sound quite right. There's also "Temperamental sonic manipulation", "Temperamental sonokinesis", "Emotion-based sound manipulation..... I'm honestly not great at coming up with names, but it's a place to start.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:33, 6 January 2010 (EST)
              • I'm gonna put more support into Emotional sound manipulation, with something to this effect as the description: "Emma can see sounds as colorful lights, and through through her emotions, can manipulate them to cause physical damage, such as the crack in her wall, or entice people."--Riddler 20:36, 6 January 2010 (EST)
  • Is it possible that she also has Sound Manipulation, but due to her being deaf, it evolved to where she can see it? As I recall from some sort of Heroes Evolution thing, the ability helped Echo be a DJ. --OutbackZack 20:38, 6 January 2010 (EST)
    • Not likely, by our definition, anyway. Since "Sound manipulation" itself was given through assignment trackers to describe Echo and Jesse's ability, we couldn't use that name. Their ability is to produce different vocal sounds. She manipulates external sounds. It's a shame that they used that name, since Sound manipulation is much more fitting here. On that note though, since "Precognition" and "Precognitive dreaming" are separate, we can have "Sound manipulation" and "Emotional sound manipulation" at the same time.--Riddler 20:42, 6 January 2010 (EST)
      • Well "sound" is after all "sound" no matter what sort of sound it is. After all, we have Knox with Enhance strength but he can feel and smell fear. I know it was canon, but it goes to show that abilities do have minor side effects that produces another sense. --OutbackZack 20:45, 6 January 2010 (EST)
        • Though I'm using Knox as an example below, what you're thinking of is drastically different. Knox's ability is still enhanced strength, even though he needs fear to access it. The fear enhances his strength. With Jesse and Echo, they produce sounds via their voice. With Emma, she makes sounds through musical instruments. Very, very different. Sound manipulation would definitely work for her ability, but since it's already used and canonically, we can't change it.--Riddler 20:53, 6 January 2010 (EST)
          • That why you would merge the two together. She's manipulating sound, Sound manipulation. --OutbackZack 20:57, 6 January 2010 (EST)
            • Missing my point entirely. We can't merge them, since they're drastically different abilities. Similar to all the electricity based abilities, and technology based abilities... and the fire based abilities... and the persuasion based abilities... etc. They're similar, but not the same, so we can't merge them, and since Echo and Jesse have a canon source, they get priority for the name.--Riddler 21:02, 6 January 2010 (EST)
              • I feel you're missing my point. I'm saying she's manipulating sound, that's Sound manipulation. There would nothing wrong with her ability page being merged with the current Sound manipulation page. Knox and Nikki, same ability, but yet different. That's what I'm getting out of this. The only different is she can see it (something that came out of being deaf).--OutbackZack 21:06, 6 January 2010 (EST)
                • Trust me, I see what you're saying, but we can't. Knox and Nikki can be merged since they have the same ability with different mechanisms. Emma IS manipulating sound, but it's a different ability than Echo and Jesse. They're not really manipulating sound, they're manipulating their voices, but their ability was canonically named. We HAVE to keep that. And because she has a different ability entirely and the name "Sound manipulation" is taken, we need to have a different name for it. If we could merge these, we could merge Fire breathing with Pyrokinesis, Teleportation with Space-time manipulation, Electric manipulation with Electrical absorption and more.--Riddler 21:10, 6 January 2010 (EST)
                  • This came from Echo's AT: A sound manipulator, Echo can mimic and distort noise, replicate frequencies, and create sonic blasts of devastating proportions. Echo has noticed that his ability to manipulate sound increases greatly when his fight-or-flight reflex is engaged. He seems to regard his ability to manipulate sound in all its forms as both a blessing and a curse, and he actively continues to explore the extent of his power.It gives off the impression it's more than his voice that he manipulates.--OutbackZack 21:14, 6 January 2010 (EST)
                    • Echo has only been seen and noted to use his voice, and we're not going with his assignment tracker anyway. Jesse's was shown on the show, and is what the name is based on. We've only seen him use his voice as well. It's safe to assume that that's what it means. Their ability is drastically different from Emma's.--Riddler 21:20, 6 January 2010 (EST)
                      • With next week's episode focusing on Emma and her ability, I think it would be a safe bet to wait and see what else she does before we try to name, rename, or merge this ability. --OutbackZack 21:18, 6 January 2010 (EST)
                        • I really wouldn't mind if we waited I suppose, but we did take advanced action in naming Damien's ability. If what she does in the next episode clashes with a name we've chosen, it can be changed fairly quickly.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:40, 6 January 2010 (EST)
  • Ok, I haven't been around, and speed reading isn't my forte, so if I repeat what was already said, bear with me. Something everyone seems to have forgotten is that a Heroes Interactive called Emma's ability "a form of synesthesia". Whatever we do, we must maintain that to some degree. I don't think any of those music or aura names would work, cause they have no link to synesthesia. In an interview, wasn't it said that Emma ability would "cause effects on what she sees"? Since her ability seems to have quite some effects, this is like telepathy. I don't think we need to change the name, the "enhanced" pretty much says that she can do things that people with synesthesia can't, which isn't a wrong description, even if not pin-point accurate. Every effect her ability has stems from her one core effect: affecting the sound she sees as color. Telepathy has loads of effects, but we didn't change it cause all of the effects stem from a single core ability: pushing and pulling thoughts. And for those of you who brought/will bring to the discussion Knox, Tracy and Jeremy, I should remind you that discussions on those never ceases, there isn't an agreement on these cases as there is with other abilities, so arguments with those aren't really valid, since there is always some on going discussions on them. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:03, 8 January 2010 (EST)
    • What about "synesthetic manipulation"? Is a better description (she can manipulate what she sees with her synesthesia) while keeping "synesthesia" in the name.--Referos 21:48, 8 January 2010 (EST)
      • Samuel likened her ability to a Siren's song and that's about the same level of canon as Heroes interactive. Also, this current name is incredibly unspecific, it's like calling Echo's power "enhanced voice". It's not incorrect, but there are more appropriate names.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:11, 8 January 2010 (EST)
        • With the variety of effects her ability has, we need a name that's general enough to account for them. Enhanced accounts for them all. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 07:14, 9 January 2010 (EST)
          • We don't need a name that account for them all, "healing touch" doesn't account for all of Jeremy's ability and "freezing" doesn't account for all of Tracy's ability. It'd be nice to have such an accurate name but the current one is far too unspecific.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 13:14, 9 January 2010 (EST)
            • Tracy and Jeremy are ongoing discussions, they don't count as arguments until both their cases are solved, and even though I hate it, that's not going to happen soon. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:48, 9 January 2010 (EST)
              • Jeremy's ability discussions have come to a halt, so I believe that Tracy's will as well. Moving on from that, Enhanced synesthesia comes from a secondary source, whereas "Siren's song" is from an episode, so it is a more appropriate name for the ability.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 09:50, 10 January 2010 (EST)

Unofficial poll

This doesn't really count for anything and isn't a true consensus but I wanted to see where our community was at.

Keep as Enhanced synesthesia --Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:03, 8 January 2010 (EST) See reasons above.

Siren's song

  1. --PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:41, 6 January 2010 (EST) - Only explicitly stated name. Siren's are described as beautiful winged woman that lured sailors to the rocky shores by singing alluring songs. Emma's music may be the allure and the sonic "blast" she created could be the rocks. Highly figurative, but I like the poetic nature of it.
  2. ----Evil Maldini 06:45, 7 January 2010 (EST)
  3. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 14:14, 7 January 2010 (EST) - PJDEP put it best for me.

Musical empathy


Emotional sound manipulation

  1. --Riddler 20:43, 6 January 2010 (EST) - For reasons stated above. Siren's song only notes the alluring aspect of her sound manipulation.
    Freezing only denotes the freezing aspect of Tracy's ability, which clearly exceeds that description.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:56, 6 January 2010 (EST)
    Another different situation. Her name is canonically and explicitly named through the document about her. We don't have a single explicit name for Emma's ability. Samuel likened her ability to a Siren's song, but that doesn't mean he was naming it.--Riddler 20:57, 6 January 2010 (EST)
    It's the closest thing we have to an explict name however. I'm not saying that makes it the best name, it's just something to keep in mind.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:33, 6 January 2010 (EST)
    Her mother likening it to Synesthesia is what got us this name. Comparisons make not the name. :P--Riddler 21:35, 6 January 2010 (EST)
  2. --Catalyst · Talk · HL 20:45, 6 January 2010 (EST)
  3. --Darkfiremaster13 05:34, 7 January 2010 (EST)
  4. --Ritamiller 13:58, 7 January 2010 (EST)

Sonic emotional conversion


Sonic hypnosis


Sonic empathy

  1. --I'd choose Musical Empathy if it wasn't for the fact Emma's ability allows her to see any sound, not just music. See, feel and express her emotions through it... Green.gif AltesUTC CH 08:00, 9 January 2010 (EST)
  2. --Ditto Hiroman 20:01, 9 January 2010 (EST)
  3. --While I like how Musical Empathy sounds, it doesn't fully describe this ability so I guess I'm with this name for now. -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 23:58, 9 January 2010 (EST)

Sonic manipulation

  1. -- The reasons that Ricard Desi put forward. (see bottom of page) --Leckie -- Talk 14:53, 11 January 2010 (EST)

Emotional sound manipulation

Just gonna give it it's own section so it can draw some attention, and provide some food for thought. I'm supporting the name Emotional sound manipulation, with the ability to see the sounds mentioned in the description. We do not need to mention the synesthesic qualities in the name, as we can liken it to Knox's enhanced strength. He feels the fear, he grows stronger. Fear isn't mentioned in the title. What I'm getting at is we can simply title it ESM and write something to this effect: "Emma can see sounds as colorful waves of light, and through her emotions, can manipulate the sounds to cause physical damage (i.e. the crack in her wall) or entice people." The only other option I can think of is "Enhanced sound manipulation" which can imply the color-sight, but also makes it sound like it's related to Echo and Jesse's ability, which it is not. Names like "Musical empathy" and "Siren's song" are inaccurate because, respecitively, Emma is not empathizing with anyone and her ability goes beyond the definition of a Siren's song.--Riddler 20:51, 6 January 2010 (EST)

  • The problem I have is that you can attach emotion to any ability. Ted got angry, he almost blows up. Tracy get scared, she freezes stuff. However, we don't call it Emotional freezing. --OutbackZack 20:56, 6 January 2010 (EST)
    • Emotion is directly tied into this ability however, similar to empathic mimicry. She almost literally converts her emotions into sound.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:57, 6 January 2010 (EST)
      • What PJ said, Zack. With Ted and Tracy, when they lost control of their emotions, their abilities went haywire. Emotions aren't directly related for them, they just lost control of themselves. Emma, however, has been noted to have a direct connection between her emotions and her abilities.--Riddler 20:59, 6 January 2010 (EST)
        • It would be easier for me to accept if she didn't crack her wall while she seemed all happy playing music haha. It seems more like the fury of her playing and not her emotions. --OutbackZack 21:02, 6 January 2010 (EST)
          • Well, we can go with "Enhanced sound manipulation", but that implies that it's a stronger version of Sound manipulation, since every other "Enhanced" ability is based on enhancing something someone can normally do.--Riddler 21:06, 6 January 2010 (EST)
  • I never heard of an ability being the enhance version of another ability. --OutbackZack 21:10, 6 January 2010 (EST)
    • What I mean is to put Enhanced in front of an already established ability makes it seem as though they're directly related. They're not. Emotional is acceptable, in my opinion, since we can compare it to Precognition and Precognitive dreaming. --Riddler 21:24, 6 January 2010 (EST)
      • Again, I said this already, emotions can be tied in with almost every ability and you can't compare it to Precognition and Precognition dreaming when they're something completely different on their own. Also, we have to include something in the name that makes it clear that she can see the colors. How about Synesthesia sound manipulation? It takes something that was stated in a secondary source, but covers all aspects of the ability without being speculative. --OutbackZack 21:36, 7 January 2010 (EST)
        • One key difference between abilities directly related to emotions and those associate with emotions is that Emma's ability and empathic manipulation require emotions to work, they cannot be done otherwise. Other abilities that have been seen used in emotional situations (like induced radioactivity or freezing) can be activated by emotions, but the scientific mechanism behind the ability has nothing to do with emotions. Thus, something like "emotional sound manipulation" is indeed appropriate. I still think Siren's song is better, but this would be my second choice.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:41, 7 January 2010 (EST)
          • It's not an appropriate name, because we're ignoring the rest of the sources. The word "synesthesia" was given to us in a secondary source, which outranks a descriptive name that doesn't have the word "synesthesia" in it. That's why I propose Synesthesia sound manipulation. That I feel is a far more appropriate name. --OutbackZack 13:06, 9 January 2010 (EST)
  • "Synesthesia" was given as an example of a real medical condition which has similar effects on the senses. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 13:13, 9 January 2010 (EST)
    • And actually, because synesthesia IS a real condition, it is entirely possible that Emma is synesthetic by nature, and it is not part of her ability at all. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 13:14, 9 January 2010 (EST)
      • Although I don't necessarily believe that this should keep it as "enhanced synesthesia", the synesthesia is most likely part of her ability because when Peter absorbed it, he too saw sound as color.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 13:16, 9 January 2010 (EST)
        • Ah, that's right, I forgot about that. So yes, the synesthesia is a part of the ability. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 14:06, 9 January 2010 (EST)
          • With that said then, how would you feel about Synesthesia sound manipulation? --OutbackZack 14:31, 9 January 2010 (EST)
  • That wouldn't be terrible, but I'll say it again, we don't call Echo's version "vocal sound manipulation". Does synesthesia have to be in the name?
    • "Synesthesia sound manipulation" is both a nonsense term, and not very accurate of a name. Using the (grammatically correct) term "synesthetic sound manipulation" implies that her power is driven by the ability to see sounds, which is not true. In particular, it does not accurately describe the attractive/repulsive nature of her ability (which appears to be the primary function of it). Meanwhile, sound manipulation is specifically a user's ability to manipulate vocal sounds, not musical instruments or random noise. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 15:07, 9 January 2010 (EST)
      • That's actually wrong. Echo's AT implies that his ability did more then changed his vocal sounds. You're also wrong about what the name implies, "synesthetic sound manipulation" implies that she sees the sound she manipulates. --OutbackZack 16:36, 9 January 2010 (EST)
        • To further add, we have recorded Sound manipulation on the wiki page as follow: the ability mimic and distort noise, replicate frequencies, and create sonic blasts of devastating proportions. Nothing states (besides the limits associated with each character) that the ability only works on vocal sounds. --OutbackZack 16:39, 9 January 2010 (EST)
          • Actually, sound manipulation has never been observed or described as anything other than vocal manipulation. Users could mimic, distort, replicate, and create noise using their voices. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 17:16, 9 January 2010 (EST)
  • But it never been described that they only could use their voice. Otherwise it would have been stated. --OutbackZack 17:18, 9 January 2010 (EST)
    • We're not at liberty to assume they could do more than vocalize. And every observed use of the power has been through voice. Thus, we must assume, until otherwise shown, that this power is exclusively a vocal ability. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 17:19, 9 January 2010 (EST)
      • That's why we have the limits for the characters on the ability page. Otherwise we need to change the ability definition on sound manipulation to state that it only can be used on vocals. Until then, Sound manipulation is defined as the manipulation of any sound, not just vocals. --OutbackZack 17:22, 9 January 2010 (EST)
        • It would be speculation to state that they can manipulate sound with something other than their voices. It is not, however, speculative to say that the ability has only been observed as a vocal ability. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 17:39, 9 January 2010 (EST)
          • Richard, I'm curious to see what you would name the ability? Considering that synesthesia, emotions, and the manipulation of sounds is part of the ability. --OutbackZack 17:30, 9 January 2010 (EST)
  • The synesthesia may theoretically be a way for the user to see the effect their ability has (in a similar way to how Knox can smell fear, despite his ability name not reflecting that). Emotions are just as tied to this ability as any other (activation and deactivation and induced radioactivity both respond extremely strongly to emotions, but this is again not part of the ability's name). What is most important about this ability is that it can attract people using sound, and that it can create sonic blasts. Personally, I find siren's song to be the most effective ability name, but there are certainly other viable candidates. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 17:39, 9 January 2010 (EST)
    • Very well put and I agree with most of your points. I too would agree to Siren's song, though it may be slightly weird of a name. --OutbackZack 17:51, 9 January 2010 (EST)
      • Those abilities are affected by emotion, but they're not what the ability is about, you can say every ability is related to emotions if you go by that. Seeing sounds is a core part of the ability. As I said in the section above, the current name still works if you think of it. What was the key thing we knew about the ability? Seeing sounds. Did we change the name when we saw that Emma could rip walls with it? No, because "enhanced synesthesia" accounts for effects regular synesthesia doesn't. Same thing happens in this case. She can put emotions into sound she sees and manipulate that sound to an effect. "Enhanced", while vague, can account to various effects this ability might produce, otherwise we'd be better off with "Emma's ability", I think no one wants that. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:52, 9 January 2010 (EST)
        • Honestly, I think we left it as "enhanced synesthesia" because we had no idea what her power actually was, and wanted to wait it out and see if something new reared up (which it has now done). --Ricard Desi (t,c) 17:54, 9 January 2010 (EST)
          • And enhanced synesthesia still works. Wasn't there an interview someone said that Emma's ability would have an effect on what she sees? Wasn't that even before Emma ripped her wall? We always knew it was going to do something, we just didn't know what. Like I said, "enhanced" is vague, but still overall accurate. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:58, 9 January 2010 (EST)

I'm starting over the conversation here for obvious reasons. Both Enhanced Synesthesia and Siren's song are both viable names for the ability. At this point, it just matters what people prefer.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 18:03, 9 January 2010 (EST)

  • Siren's song doesn't account for seeing sounds. If this was just hypnotic singing, it could work, but it's not. It doesn't even account for the ripping of the wall. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:05, 9 January 2010 (EST)
    • And enhanced synesthesia doesn't really account for anything. It gives no indication of what the ability actually does.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 18:28, 9 January 2010 (EST)
      • On top of that, if you go back and watch the season, nearly every time Emma (and Peter when he has the ability) play music, people gather to listen. I'd say this is the primary aspect of Emma's power, not the synesthetic byproduct. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:32, 9 January 2010 (EST)
        • I don't remember people gathering to see Emma and Peter playing the piano. And it's like I said, since the ability is vague in the sense of what it can do with the sound she sees, it's only logical that the name of the ability has to reflect that vagueness. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:39, 9 January 2010 (EST)
          • I'm afraid I disagree. Her power is actually quite specific at this point. It does three things: Emma can attract specific (or not specific) people through manipulation of sound/music, Emma can create sonic blasts capable of physical damage, and Emma can see a colorful representation of sound (known as "synesthesia"). --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:54, 9 January 2010 (EST)
  • And "emotional sound manipulation" in no way accounts for seeing sound. The closest thing to that I can see being correct is "synesthetic manipulation". Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:59, 9 January 2010 (EST)
    • Synesthetic manipulation makes it sound like she manipulates the disorder itself in someway. I still don't see why we must mention the device that makes the ability work in the name. Echo's power is not called "enhanced voice", Niki's isn't "enhanced muscles", Matt's isn't "enhanced brain", why should Emma's be any different?--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:50, 9 January 2010 (EST)
      • She's indeed manipulating her synesthesia: while normal synesthetes only mix different senses, Emma can alter her synesthesia to combine her senses with her emotions.--Referos 06:49, 10 January 2010 (EST)
        • Or her synesthesia could always be like that; synesthesia manipulation makes it seem like she changes it from normal to special.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 09:37, 10 January 2010 (EST)
          • Not synesthesia manipulation, synesthetic, as in through synesthesia, by the means of. She doesn't change synesthesia, synesthesia is what she uses to do what she does. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:00, 10 January 2010 (EST)

Terrible Names!

I hate to be the one, but none of the names discussed really mention all the aspects of her ability: seeing sounds, projecting sound and the siren's song. Maybe someone could come up with a name that could encompass all of the aspects of her ability. daevon 01:42, 10 January 2010 (EST)

  • I agree, except i think the ability name should be about the aspects like, projecting sound and the siren song. Because really, seeing the sounds isn't really an ability. More of a illness, or whatever people call synesthesia. --Scorvi12 01:54, 10 January 2010 (EST)
    • But still its a major part of the ability. daevon 02:27, 10 January 2010 (EST)
    • Peter was able to see sounds too. Which makes it part of the ability. No debating it. --OutbackZack 02:28, 10 January 2010 (EST)
      • Oh yeah, i forgot about that. Just forget i ever wrote that. --Scorvi12 02:50, 10 January 2010 (EST)
  • A name has to be debated regarding that part of the ability, maybe something like Synthesiac Sound Manipulation. daevon 03:03, 10 January 2010 (EST)
  • Seeing sounds doesn't have to be part of the name, it appears to be a side-effect of the ability rather then its true usage. That being said, I still think "Siren's song" works quite well, it was said in a canon source and has a poetic nature about it (see above).--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 09:53, 10 January 2010 (EST)
    • Still, she can make cracks in the wall to, so I don't completly like Siren's Song -- (WaterRatj) 12:24, 10 January 2010 (EST)

Seeing sounds should still be mentioned in the name and i dont see how it is a side effect, its a part of the whole ability. daevon 16:42, 10 January 2010 (EST)

  • Seeing sounds is obviously a major part of the whole ability, so within reason should be part of the ability name. The synesthesia side is part of the ability, because when Peter replicated it, he started seeing colors aswell, remember? -- Leckie -- Talk 17:22, 10 January 2010 (EST)

Synesthesic empathy or Empathic synesthesia

Just trying to come up with some ideas for new names, and these were the only two I could think of. Thoughts ?--Leckie -- Talk 09:59, 10 January 2010 (EST)

  • Riddler had a pretty good argument against any names containing empathy above; empathy is defined as "the ability to understand and share the feelings of another". Names like "sonic empathy" or "empathic synesthesia" make it seem like she can see the emotions of others as sound or color. I also don't think that synesthesia must be mentioned in the name. I'm sorry if the above seems like I'm singling you out but I'm just trying to restate some arguments that are buried above.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 10:03, 10 January 2010 (EST)
    • Nah, it doesn't seem like that :) By the way, I think that Synesthesia does have to be mentioned in the name as it is a big part of her ability, when Peter absorbed it he saw colours as well remember? I understand what you mean with the whole empathy side of it, so obviuously that shouldn't be part of it, I just thought that because she kinda connects with people because of it is all :) Maybe something like Synesthesic attraction? That way you see that she sees colors and attracts people in with it as well. -- Leckie -- Talk 10:11, 10 January 2010 (EST)
      • I just thought of another one, what about "Emotive synesthesia"? --Leckie -- Talk 17:24, 10 January 2010 (EST)
        • It doesn't have anything suggesting she does something with it, it's like a cross sensing version of Lydia's ability to me. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:34, 10 January 2010 (EST)
          • I'm just trying to brainstorm some new names. Some of the names suggested so far haven't been very good, like "Sonic empathy" and "Aural empathy". I mean, obviously we need a name that covers all aspects of the ability, and I thought that ones I was coming up with we doing that. Seemingly not. --Leckie -- Talk 17:39, 10 January 2010 (EST)
  • How do you feel about the synhestetic manipulation I said above? That's the only thing I could put together taking in account that she does the things she does (lure people, crack walls) through synesthesia (the sounds she sees). Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:10, 10 January 2010 (EST)
              • Unspecific, doesn't say how she manipulates synesthesia. Emotive synesthesia sounds like an AFI album, so that's out.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 18:33, 10 January 2010 (EST)
    • Unspecific on purpose, the two thing we saw her doing so far differ a lot, and since they'll probably introduce more effects as they develop Emma, getting a single name to account for several specific effects, being unspecific is the way to go. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:41, 10 January 2010 (EST)
      • Synesthesic manipulation doesn't work, since it doesn't say what she manipulates. If it's limited to two words, it'd be "Synesthesia manipulation," which implies she's manipulating the disorder. If "Synesthestic" is used, it needs to be followed by a word before manipulation. Synesthesic acts as a describer, and manipulation tells what you do with whats being described, but nothing actually exists in the middle, if that makes sense. Synesthesic sound manipulation would be the most accurate.--Riddler 19:32, 10 January 2010 (EST)
        • Merriam-Webster gives "synesthetic" as the adjective to synesthesia. If you google it, there are many more references to synesthetic than there are to synesthesic. I proposed the name without something in between precisely for the fact there seems to be several things she can do with sound, there are words to make this work if this was just emotions or blasts, but no words to account for both effects. Basically, the name means "manipulation through synesthesia" which is what she does, be it emotions, sounds or any other thing she may come to affect. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:41, 10 January 2010 (EST)
          • But can we really say that she wouldn't be able to attract people to her, or blow up walls if she had her eyes closed? Synesthesia simply appears to be her way of identifying what she's doing.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 19:46, 10 January 2010 (EST)
  • I typo'd, excuse me. IE, you're right. It IS an adjective to Synesthesia. But an adjective modifies a noun, and we have no noun in the name with "Synesthetic manipulation". I mean, we do, but to say Synesthetic manipulation means she's using synethesia just to.. manipulate. Get what I'm saying? For the ability name to start with Synesthetic, we need it to be a noun that makes sense. Adding "Sound" keeps it accurate. --Riddler 19:56, 10 January 2010 (EST)
    • Yeah, she uses it to manipulate, period. I see no way to make it less general without narrowing it too much. PJDEP, I see no reason for her being unable to do it with her eyes closed, but she would have no idea what's happening since she can only see sound, she can't hear it. Who knows, maybe if Sylar tries to attack Emma he'll figure out that if she can't see sound she can't manipulate it, it would be an interesting twist. Maybe she can, if you cover your ears, the sounds are still there, as long as she can put emotion into sound, I don't think she has to see it, but she does. It's something that the ability didn't have to have, but it does. The ability would still make sense if there was no seeing sound, but since it does, we have to put a reference to synesthesia somewhere in the ability, so if you have another idea, I'm all ears. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:58, 10 January 2010 (EST)
      • Uses it to manipulate what, period? Rhetorical, just hoping you see what I mean.--Riddler 20:04, 10 January 2010 (EST)
        • Anything she may come to manipulate. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:07, 10 January 2010 (EST)
          • It makes it speculative. It implies she can manipulate anything with her synesthesia. We've only seen sound. We can't assume.--Riddler 20:12, 10 January 2010 (EST)
  • And that's why we have more detailed explanations in the article page. When you think telepathy, you don't think precognition, but the page explains how that works. It's like I said, there's no way to make it more specific without making it narrow to the point it excludes effects we know it has. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:17, 10 January 2010 (EST)
    • If you think about it, you just helped prove my point. Telepathy has an enormous amount of parts to it that aren't in the name. Why MUST Synesthesia be mentioned in the name? Food for thought. We've been told she uses her emotions to manipulate sound. Emotional sound manipulation, on ALL accounts, is the only name we have that actually fits her ability, and the fact that she sees the colors can be in the description.--Riddler 20:21, 10 January 2010 (EST)
      • Seeing the future among other effects aren't core parts of the ability, seeing sound is a core part of Emma's ability. I'm only suggesting this one because people wanted alternatives to the current name. I'm ok with the current name for reasons I already explained in this talk, just Control+F my name and you'll see it at some point. On broad and narrow names, take mental manipulation for example. Just by the name, it could many things, but since it was the only thing that account for the two core effects of René's ability, that's what we went with. If you're argument was geared more towards "emotional sonic manipulation" I would like it better cause while she is manipulating sound, she's using that sound to do something else, something that's not necessarily related to sound, but that still leaves out the core synesthesia part. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:29, 10 January 2010 (EST)
        • Persuasion is a HUGE part of telepathy, and it's not in the name. The fact that Peter has to touch people to replicate abilities isn't mentioned in the name of Ability replication. The list goes on. It is a big part of her ability, but her true ability, as Samuel called it, is to manipulate the sounds via her emotions. Actually this is a great point. Samuel said that seeing the sounds ISN'T her real ability, just a small part of it. That just supports the idea that it doesn't need to be in the name. And again, "Sound" is all we need. She's not manipulating anything but the sounds. She's not manipulating the colors she can see. She's not manipulating people directly. She's manipulating the sound. So "Emotional sound maniplation", again I support, is the perfect name.--Riddler 20:33, 10 January 2010 (EST)
          • Persuasion is still not the core of telepathy. Peter's ability was named ability replication leaving out touch as preventive measure should it ever evolve past touch. To a degree, she does manipulate the colors. In the scene she cracks the wall, the color of the sounds gets redder when she starts getting agitated. She can manipulate people's emotions, through sound, sound she sees is the medium through which she channels her ability, her sound is akin to Lydia's tattoos. Not taking in account seeing sound would be like leaving out the breathing from fire breathing. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:42, 10 January 2010 (EST)
  • I entirely disagree with you. The colors got redder and more intense because the sounds got louder and more intense. She was seeing the sound, and it was changing based on her emotion (as you just noticed yourself, "when she starts getting agitated". The people are enticed by the sounds that are being manipulated. Seeing the colors is NOT the core of her ability. The core of her ability is the sound manipulation. It was even noted in the show, and they put emphasis on it. I don't wanna find the quote due to sheer laziness and hopes that you remember it.--Riddler 20:51, 10 January 2010 (EST)
  • Furthermore, and I'll start a new minithread for this, "manipulation through synesthesia" is speculative, wrong even, so "Synesthetic" is inaccurate on it's own. We know she can see the sounds as color, but we don't know if this is what makes it so she can manipulate sound. We actually have been told that she uses her emotions to manipulate the sound. --Riddler 19:59, 10 January 2010 (EST)
    • Synesthesia has to be there because she sees sound as color. It's a part of her ability, whether it is the key thing to make it work or just something that is ultimately useless that the writers put in it to make it different, and as part of her ability, it has to be accounted for in the ability name. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:07, 10 January 2010 (EST)
      • Alright, then it has to be there. But we can't use "Synesthetic". I disagree that it HAS to be there, on account of Knox not being listed as "Fear-induced strength" (regardless of a canon name, it helps to make my point), but if anyone feels it HAS to be there, we can't speculate that she's using it to manipulate the sound itself. Synesthetic anything is out of the picture.--Riddler 20:09, 10 January 2010 (EST)
        • I always supported moving Knox to "enhanced strength" or "fear-enhanced strength". I kinda hope that if we manage to settle Emma, we can try to do the same with Knox. AT says he has "enhanced strength", so my suggestion to make that work is to split him, saying his strength is enhanced by fear, while everyone else had super strength all the time. Reference to synesthesia has to be there because it's part of the ability, so if "synesthetic" isn't good enough, by all means propose something better. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:17, 10 January 2010 (EST)
          • New idea: we could cheat. Everyone seems to agree that "sound manipulation" would nicely fit Emma's power, but that's already used. So we could try slight variations like "music manipulation" or "aural manipulation".--Referos 20:55, 10 January 2010 (EST)
  • Counter-idea, we wait until tomorrow when we'll see her ability more, then resume debate.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:55, 10 January 2010 (EST)
  • Good point! We are very likely to see more of this ability tonight! Maybe then we can settle this :) --Leckie -- Talk 11:14, 11 January 2010 (EST)

Abilities and Emotion

  • Part of the mythology of the show is that abilities, for the most part, are connected to emotions. Ted's rage fueled his Radioactivity. Fear fueled Knox's strength. When Tracy becomes emotional, her abilities are often affected, sometimes the water aspect of which reflects her sadness. Healing touch became much more sinister with Jeremy's anger. Some abilities even control a user's emotions completely, like Intuitive Aptitude. At this point, putting "emotional" in the name of an ability is almost repetitive, considering all of this. If the ability had some form of control over OTHER's emotions, then it would make sense, but an ability fueled by the USER's emotion does not. So taking in all of the facts, this ability shows us examples of:

Sound to Color Synesthesia (Her ability to see sound) Sound manipulation (Her ability to control sound, producing different effects [Riddler, it simply doesnt matter if she is vocalizing the sound or not, it is still manipulation of sound. It would be an assumption to say she COULDN'T manipulate the sound of her own voice. We don't know that the effects she creates can only be produced by music.])

The word synesthesia can mean MANY different kinds of confused senses, not just sound to color. So the word on it's own doesn't accurately describe the most obvious effect of her ability. We also know that the synesthesia is not simply her ability making up for her inability to hear because Peter could also see sound when he absorbed it. It may just be as simple as this ability is too broad to narrow it down into a comfortable 1 to 2 word title like we are used to. Indeed, it seems apparent that the writers were attempting to create an ability never seen before. It would be interesting to know what they call it in the writer's room. The actual accepted scientific term for her ability's main effect is "Sound → Color Synesthesia". It may be best (though, daunting) to refer to the ability as Sound/Color Synesthesia and Manipulation. --Action Figure 02:58, 11 January 2010 (EST)

  • It does matter if she can vocalize it or not. My argument for that topic was that her ability is very different from Echo/Jesse, and THEY vocalize. We can't say they have the same ability since she's shown to use other sounds and they use their voice. Regardless, her abilities main effect is NOT seeing the colors. We were all lead to believe that, since we've seen it most, but we hadn't yet fully understood Emma. Upon This Rock was sure to emphasize that her "true ability" was the sound manipulation, and what she could do with it. Samuel said it directly, she questioned it, and they proved it. Her seeing the sounds is just a small part of it. So her ability is some form of sound manipulation, but it can't be Sound manipulation since there is a canon source for that one. As for her emotional involvement in the ability, the difference with your examples was that all of those people just lost control when they become emotional. We were told that she needs to use her emotions to manipulate the sounds, and the different moods had different effects. I really don't want to have to dig through the episode for the quotes.--Riddler 11:09, 11 January 2010 (EST)
    • I didnt say it was her true ability. I said it was the main effect of it, the most obvious part. It is the part of the ability that is known no matter who the user is. Also, Knox isn't "losing control" when he gains strength from fear. He simply happens to use it for evil purposes. Peter also originally used abilities based on emotion. Not all of those made him out of control. Micah seems to be able to use his ability best when he is excited. When he is forced to use it by Candice, he quickly tires and has to stop. Space-time manipulation sometimes controls Hiro based on his emotions, such as when he began missing Charlie and he warped back in time to her. To be fair, it seems like Emma's strongest part of her ability IS based on her emotions making her lose control. The siren's song aspect really didn't seem based on emotion at all, and more on just what she focused on doing. I don't think the name I suggested contradicts anything you believe anyway. It simply describes what she does best. --Action Figure 13:19, 11 January 2010 (EST)

True Ability

You need to let go of that fear and release your true ability.

True ability?

I need your help. I've tried in my usual way to find this man, and I've been unsuccessful. He's... he's overwhelmed with his gift like you've been, but so much more lost. He thought he was losing his mind. When the moss and the flowers started growing in his footstep, he lost touch with this world and fell into the cracks. I'm told he lives in Central Park.

I don't understand. How can I help?

Your gift is more than seeing gift as sound as color... or putting cracks in a wall.

My true ability... but what is it?

Your emotions can become one with the music. You can bring people to you, like a Siren's Song. Siren?

Yeah, just play and you'll see. Concentrate on him. Draw him to you. Now's your chance. Make your prayers into song.

Samuel and Emma

I bolded the most important parts, but quoted the whole segment. Samuel notes that her core, or "true" ability is how she can put her emotions into the music and do things with it. I feel the episode was very careful with this subject, and we need to take it into consideration.--Riddler 11:27, 11 January 2010 (EST)

  • Though it is likely it will be the main way it is displayed from here out in the series, it cant be assumed she can only manipulate music, and not other sounds. She sees color from outside sound, and it even often produces a musical tone when we are seeing things from her perspective. Can you be clearer on what it is you are proposing by making these points? --Action Figure 13:22, 11 January 2010 (EST)
    • Every display of manipulation we've seen from her has been through music. The crack in the wall was through furious music. Enticing Ian was through the music. We would be wrong to assume she can do anything else. She can see the sounds, but she's not manipulating the colors. She's just seeing them. Regardless of that though. I don't propose "Musical manipulation". As we can both agree, she does see the sounds, and the music she is manipulating is sound itself, so I think we should have a form of "Sound manipulation" as it's name. We don't need to mention "Synesthesia" since we've been told that it isn't her "true ability" (and we don't have "Fear" in Knox's ability name). Since we can't use that directly, thanks to Echo and Jesse, and we certainly can't merge it, we need to put an adjective in front of it. It's similar to Precognition and Precognitive Dreaming. Similar abilities, but different names. Since they emphasized that she HAS to put emotion into it to get an effect, I again suggest "Emotional sound manipulation."--Riddler 13:30, 11 January 2010 (EST)
      • I agree with most of what you're presenting here. I'd hesitate to use a direct variant on "sound manipulation" because it implies too close a similarity with Echo and Jesse's ability, but something near it would definitely work. I had suggested sonic empathy, but I'm hesitant about overloading this wiki with a million "empathy" powers when the term might not be appropriate. Meanwhile (as insanely confusing as this could be), something like sonic manipulation or musical manipulation (since her siren song only appears to work when she plays music -- ironically making her immune to its effects) might work. Now, the difference between "sound manipulation" and "sonic manipulation" is that the term "sound manipulation" implies a manipulation of sound (which is correct for Echo and Jesse's ability), while "sonic manipulation" implies a manipulation using sound (which is correct for Emma's ability). Now, I know these are very similar ability names, but as it is already we do have both memory manipulation and mental manipulation. To counter the use of "emotional", I'd say that creative use of "manipulation" can cover that aspect (again, "sonic manipulation" can imply a manipulation of emotions by utilizing sound). So... I'd say our best bet (weirdly enough) is sonic manipulation. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 14:36, 11 January 2010 (EST)
        • Lol, loads of people come up with loads of different suggestions and you just made your suggestion and its convinced me! I like some of the other names put forward, but the argument you put forth there clinched it :) --Leckie -- Talk 14:50, 11 January 2010 (EST)
          • The only real problem I have with "Sonic" is it tends to make people think of Speed, not Sound. "Sonic speed", "Sonic boom", hell, even "Sonic the Hedgehog." People won't realize it has anything to do with sound.--Riddler 14:56, 11 January 2010 (EST)
            • As a huge Sonic the Hedgehog fan, I can definitely see where you're coming from :P That said, the word "sonic" refers any property of sound. It is simply most commonly referring to the speed of sound. "Sonic boom" describes (in a very clever nomenclative move) both the sound created by the event, as well as that it occurs when an object exceeds the speed of sound. That said, the connection between the word "sonic" and speed is artificial. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 15:14, 11 January 2010 (EST)
              • Although a terrible, terrible name, sonic emotional conversion seems to cover up that quote pretty well. I still think "Siren's song" works best however.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:24, 11 January 2010 (EST)
                • I know what sonic means, it's just what it'll make people think. It's iffy, to me. D:--Riddler 15:29, 11 January 2010 (EST)
                  • I'm not ready to agree or disagree with the names put forth by Richard. Only because of tonight's episode featuring Emma. There's a strong possibility that new information will be given about her, and maybe even a name (Angela speaks about her in the promo). We could agree on a name now, but if something else was to be given to us tonight then it would have been wasted time and energy. I understand we have cases of where we named an ability then was proven wrong. However, it should be noted that such abilities were named because we thought we weren't going to see said abilities again. Whereas, with this ability, it's not the case. --OutbackZack 15:31, 11 January 2010 (EST)
                    • I agree with Zack, let's put this to bed for all of four hours before the new Heroes airs.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:40, 11 January 2010 (EST)
                      • Riddler, if you think people you immediately associate "sonic" with speed, then you think people are dumb, sonic is clearly derived from sound, not to think of sound when you hear that word is incredibly unlikely. The reason I still think we should have any mention at all to synesthesia is because of the HI which said her ability is a "form of synesthesia". It's not something we can simply ignore. About Knox, we didn't use fear in his ability because before we could do that, AT came and named it. Given last night's episode, I'm more inclined to sound names, if only because the only moment it showed the colors was in Peter's dream. Out of all sound related names, the one I disagree the least with is "sonic manipulation", for reasons already stated. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 07:47, 12 January 2010 (EST)
      • A: Sonic and Sound are interchangeable, thus we might as well call it sound manipulation if we'd call it sonic. One does not imply the use of something else's sounds more than the other. B: We are supposed to try our best to cover the range of effects an ability has. It doesnt matter one flying flip if in Samuel's opinion the synesthesia aspect is not her "true ability". Thats his opinion, he would clearly care more about strength and power, and hes not an expert. The FACT is, it IS the most obvious part of her ability, and it is TRULY part of her ability. Peter replicated that aspect of it. The only name suggested thus far that covers it all is the one I proposed. I dont care if mine is used or not, but its gotta be something that makes sense and covers whats happening. Then we can add all the redirects and a.k.a.'s we want so people can find it. --Action Figure 16:27, 12 January 2010 (EST)
        • Also, the reason it is important to distinguish the fact that she sees sound as color is that there are other forms of synesthesia, like grapheme where you see certain letters and numbers in colors. The reality here would be she doesnt have synesthesia at all, because you would have to actually be able to HEAR a sound to get the sense mixed with a visual like seeing color. But this is a fantasy world, so whatre ya gonna do? --Action Figure 16:31, 12 January 2010 (EST)
          • The Heroes Interactive said her ability is "a form of synesthesia". All we need is to point out which in the article. Just the fact she can see sounds without hearing them is like a super power. The crossing of senses in her case is not two senses crossing together, but once sense invading and taking over one she doesn't have. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:19, 12 January 2010 (EST)
            • Yes, thats a great way of putting it. --Action Figure 00:51, 13 January 2010 (EST)

Name debate continues

So tonight's episode didn't help at all really, so we're more or less where we were at last week. I don't know if I have the "authority" to set up a proper consensus check, so if anyone else can, please do. We have enough information to either decide to rename or keep the current name of this ability.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:40, 11 January 2010 (EST)

Consensus check 2010/01/12

So, PJDEP proposed a consensus check: here's the 27 proposed names I found in the discussion; if I forgot anything, sorry! Remember to put you signature under the ones you oppose. If all names end having a valid opposition, this ability will default to "Emma's ability".

  • I'm not leaving any "oppositions" in this consensus check, as I still see this system as flawed. We have a huge list of name that "don't qualify" anymore after only one or two oppositions, yet all the "still valid" ones have at least three? All by the same people, nonetheless; I've never agreed with this kind of consensus check. It has no organization, and it detracts people from putting in their opinion as it is an utter mess. That said, I still think Emotional sound manipulation is best, but I can agree with Sonic manipulation.--Riddler 14:23, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    • Some ability names are out the door the moment they are proposed, like the ones containing the word "empathy", because they are a clearly inaccurate description. Although others may have less oppositions, they have no counter-arguments, which the below do.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:26, 13 January 2010 (EST)
      • A good number of them likely have no counter arguments because people see they're "eliminated" and don't bother. We've had this problem with this style of consensus in the past. It never leads to anything good. Our old consensus check wasn't perfect, but infinitely better than this.--Riddler 15:29, 13 January 2010 (EST)
        • Then we should put a message that says they can be re-added to the valid names list if someone has an appropriate counter-argument. I've always assumed that was how it was supposed to work.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:37, 13 January 2010 (EST)
          • I was the one who split this list into still-valid and eliminated names, primarily because this list is absolutely, ungodly huge. The names I split off to "eliminated" was because the arguments against them effectively defeated them as even being possibilities, whereas the five remaining ability names are still theoretically usable, and while the arguments against them do have merit, they do not outright defeat the term. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 16:02, 13 January 2010 (EST)
  • At a certain point, when we've narrowed down the choices a little, don't we go to the old voting system?--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:42, 14 January 2010 (EST)
    • Yes, but...how do we even decide what names are still valid for voting? For instance: "Siren's song" received some opposition, counter-arguments were presented, counter-counter-arguments were also presented, etc. Same with "music and emotion integration" or "emotional sound manipulation". What names do you think should be candidates for voting?--Referos 16:07, 14 January 2010 (EST)
      • If five names are too much for a vote (I don't think they are, but I'm unsure of the precedents we've set), I'm not sure. But we will eventually need to come to a conclusion.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 16:28, 14 January 2010 (EST)
        • The precedent I think is to have 2~3 at most, otherwise it becomes essentially identical to the old type of consensus check. Currently "enhanced synesthesia" and "emotional sound manipulation" have had at least one opposition without counter argument for some time now; maybe we could cross these out?--Referos 16:39, 14 January 2010 (EST)

Still-Valid Names

Emotion(al) sound manipulation

  1. Slightly opposed. She is manipulating sound, yes, but the focus of the ability is how and to what end she is manipulating sound. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, Emma didn't appear to be particularly emotional when she summoned Peter to her apartment.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:11, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    That's subjective; I felt she was really hopeful.--Referos 21:19, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Oppose, The emotion matters not. --Action Figure 00:55, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    What? Of course it matters, Emma ability is to alter the effects of the music she plays by combining it with an emotion.--Referos 07:16, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    Almost all powers are affected by emotion. --Action Figure 14:19, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    Almost all powers are affected by them, but her ability REQUIRES her emotions.--Riddler 14:21, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    Action Figure, see here. These are the abilities I found that can be affected by, can effect or require emotions. There's a lot that aren't/don't.--Leckie -- Talk 14:31, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    Ugh, I think I've lost my will to care on this one. Good luck with a name guys. This is always the dumbest part. --Action Figure 04:23, 14 January 2010 (EST)
    I mean seriously, what emotion is "I want this homeless guy to show up"? --Action Figure 04:25, 14 January 2010 (EST)
    I'm not gonna bother with that page, but the emotion she used with Ian was wonder and hope. Samuel told her to make her emotions one with the music, to turn her prayers into song. When we say "she has to use her emotions", we never need to specify one specific emotion for every different part of her ability. We mean she's using her feelings and thoughts as a whole to get an effect. Emotion.--Riddler 16:17, 14 January 2010 (EST)
    Hopefully I can still argue, but just look at the dream Peter had. Emma was obviously distressed, if her distress had nothing to do with killing thousands, I would be beyond shocked. --Dman dustin 21:35, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Music and emotion integration

  1. Oppose. Makes no mention to her ability to see sound. Which as the Naming conventions state, a descriptive name must cover all aspects of an ability. We can't bend the rules --OutbackZack 21:40, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Samuel said that Emma's ability to manipulate sound was her true ability, not her synesthesia. So the sound visualization aspect could be treated as a smaller side-effect, unimportant to the naming of the true ability.--Referos 21:41, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    He NEVER said it was only music. If we're going by what he said then this name still wouldn't fit the bill. --OutbackZack 21:48, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Ok, more specifically, Samuel said "your emotions can become one with the music". "Music and emotion integration" suggests exactly that, and nothing more: her emotions and her music can become one, integrated. I think the name fits.--Referos 21:53, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Exactly. "Music and emotion integration" suggests exactly that. And nothing more. The "and nothing more" part being key. This does not describe her ability to see sound, or her ability to summon people. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 22:31, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Disagree. As I said, Samuel claimed that Emma's channel-emotions-through-music thing was her true ability, so I think it's okay to leave her synesthesia out of the equation. And "music and emotion integration" does explain that she can summon people by "making her prayers into song"; see my comment below.--Referos 22:37, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Oppose, does not include the most important aspect of the ability: the ability to attract/summon people using her ability. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 22:11, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    None of the proposed names, except Siren's song, do. Nevertheless, Samuel said that Emma could attract people by making her "prayers into sound". The fact that her emotions and music become one encompasses the luring thing, it just doesn't refer to it explicitly (similarly to how telepathy doesn't directly refer to persuasion or precognition)--Referos 22:15, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Oppose- Doesnt describe the ability... at all... --Action Figure 00:55, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    Untrue, read above comments. Remember that Samuel said that Emma's true ability was to let her emotions become one with the music; "music and emotion integration" is simply a synthesis of how Samuel described her power.--Referos 07:16, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    If you came to this site with no prior knowledge of her ability, this term wouldn't even begin to clearly describe it to you. --Action Figure 14:25, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    Which is probably why you came to the site in the first place, to look the ability up. The article can give more specific details.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:11, 13 January 2010 (EST)
  4. A more proper name may be "Music-emotion integration", less wordy.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:23, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    Maybe "Synesthetic music-emotion integration"? Completely wordy, but covers absolutely all aspects if needed.--Referos 16:10, 14 January 2010 (EST)
    I'd rather keep it as either "music-emotion integration" or "music and emotion integration", because they mean virtually the same thing. If we're going to go all out and make a name encompassing every element we'll end up with "attracting and blasting through emotion with a synesthetic visual aide".--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 16:47, 14 January 2010 (EST)

Siren's song

  1. Opposed, she plays an instrument, she doesn't sing. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:14, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    It's figurative, not literal. This shouldn't be a reason for disqualifying a name.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:16, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    It doesn't account for smashing walls either. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:30, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    As I said in a discussion above, Siren's song has a poetic nature to it. Emma lures people close to her with the allure of her song, much like the Siren's in Greek legends, and the "blast" she creates could represent the sailors crashing into the rocks because of the Siren's song. It's highly figurative, but it works.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:32, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    It's highly speculative, too. I'm pretty sure we shouldn't be doing literary analysis when naming an ability.--Referos 20:41, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Too figurative to work. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:36, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    That's an opinion--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:39, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    I don't think the name needs to be so figurative that many users will have no idea of what it means. - Jenx222 | U / T / C | <inlcudeonly>08:00, 7 January 2012 (EST) 20:42, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Siren's song isn't that uncommon. If they're not entirely aware of what the ability is, that's what the article is for.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    It isn't that common either, and it's still a very WTHIT? name. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 21:08, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, doesn't account for all aspects of the ability. - Jenx222 | U / T / C | <inlcudeonly>08:00, 7 January 2012 (EST) 20:35, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    It's taken from a canon source however, there have been cases in the past where a higher ranking source did not entirely encompass an ability.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:40, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Only when it's an explicit canon source, which must follow the format "your ability is called X" or "ability: X". Samuel didn't do this.--Referos 20:56, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Correct me if I'm mistaken, but "ability supercharging" was taken from a description of Ando as "a supercharger". Ando's ability does more the supercharge abilities, yet the description was used.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:08, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    And that's why Ando's ability has no explicit source for its name. Perhaps it should be changed to a more general "supercharging", but this is not the place to discuss it.--Referos 21:17, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    My point still stands however, ability names have been taken from canon descriptions even when they don't entirely encompass the ability.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:24, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    And yet we don't name Matt Jr.'s ability "Touch and Go" exactly because it wasn't explicitly given and didn't cover all aspects.--Referos 22:02, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    I didn't say every case, I just said that it has happened before.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:09, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Oppose, only one aspect of the ability --Action Figure 00:55, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    See my explanation above.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:17, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    See literary counter arguments above. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 08:05, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Sonic manipulation

  1. Opposed, just a rehash of "sound manipulation", and makes no reference to emotions or attraction.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:17, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Not exactly, sonic manipulation can be interpreted as manipulate things with sound, through sound, which she does. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:30, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Not just a rehash. "Sound manipulation" means "a manipulation of sound", which is accurate for Echo/Jesse. "Sonic manipulation" means "a manipulation using sound", which is accurate for Emma. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:47, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    All right, I "unoppose".--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:49, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Oppose. Makes no mention to her ability to see sound. Which as the Naming conventions state, a descriptive name must cover all aspects of an ability. We can't bend the rules. --OutbackZack 21:38, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Samuel said that Emma's ability to manipulate sound was her true ability, not her synesthesia. So the sound visualization aspect could be treated as a smaller side-effect, unimportant to the naming of the true ability.--Referos 21:41, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    If he said to "manipulate sound" then it would be Sound manipulation and we would just list her unique aspects in the limit section. --OutbackZack 21:46, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Hmm, Samuel indeed said "music" and not "sound", so I suppose your opposition is correct.--Referos 22:04, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Again, she is not manipulating the sound so much as manipulating people via the sound. Hence the distinction. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 22:07, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    To (admittedly weakly) counter that, one could say the synesthesia is her manipulating the very sound waves to interpret them visually. Sound and light are both forms of energy. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 22:13, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Oppose, its another way to say sound manipulation --Action Figure 00:55, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    Please read my above comments, "sound manipulation" and "sonic manipulation" are (by basic grammar) distinct terms. "Sound manipulation" is literally a manipulation of sound. "Sonic manipulation" is literally a manipulation using sound. Meaning sound is used to manipulate something else (not sound). --Ricard Desi (t,c) 03:44, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    "Sonic" just means- "relating to or using sound waves." So it can go either way. "Sound" alone certainly does not denote only manipulation of sound. That one could also go either way. Essentially they are interchangeable here. --Action Figure 14:25, 13 January 2010 (EST)
    Although I disagree with "Synesthetic" being an adjective for this ability, I can agree with "Sonic". It sounds a little hypocritical, but Ricard makes a good point in that the adjective makes a difference here. Manipulating sound isn't the same as manipulating THROUGH sound. At the same time though, I still think "Sonic" will make people think of Speed, ala Sonic Speed, Sonic Boom, and Sonic the Hedgehog.--Riddler 14:27, 13 January 2010 (EST)
  4. Comment: Samuel said that Emma could manipulate music not sound in general, so "sonic manipulation" might be too broad. Thoughts?--Referos 16:55, 14 January 2010 (EST)
    From a logical standpoint, I don't think there would be an legitimate explanation for why she can only manipulate music and not sound in general. Her ability shouldn't "sense" whether something is musical or not, because you can't actually say what qualifies as musical and what doesn't.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 17:23, 14 January 2010 (EST)
    Yes, but given that her ability is an emotional one, her connection to the sentiments evoked by music could be crucial. I mean, sure, physically, there's no difference between noise and music, but if Emma cannot subjectively feel a sound as music, perhaps her ability fails? Besides, Samuel only said that she combines music and emotions or prayers and songs so extending this effect to sound in general goes beyond what he said.--Referos 17:36, 14 January 2010 (EST)
    The problem is, it is not possible to define a line between "music" and "sound". A garbage can falling over and striking the ground has a combination of vibrations just the same as a cello being played. Additionally, she can see ALL forms of sound, not just musical or tonal forms. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:56, 14 January 2010 (EST)
    Yes, it's true that it's impossible to objectively determine what's noise and what's music. But it's not impossible to determine it subjectively. If Emma, from her point of view, feels that a certain group of lights do not feel like "music" for her, then perhaps her ability doesn't work.--Referos 19:04, 14 January 2010 (EST)

Notes/Comments

  • None of the names mentioned list all of the aspects of the ability, so unless we're going to call this Emma's ability, we can't cross out names because they don't list every single function.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:56, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    • Well, since Samuel said that Emma's synesthesia was not her true ability, I'm okay with leaving that out of the name.--Referos 21:58, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  • I'm beginning to think we should get Ryan to email a writer asking what the hell this ability is haha. This one is all over the board. It's like they took darts and said "Where ever they land is what will be the aspects of her ability".--OutbackZack 22:16, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  • Well, let's observe the ability. She can:
    • see sound as color, commonly known as "synesthesia" or "hysterical blindness".
    • create waves of destructive energy when angry.
    • attract individuals by playing music and thinking of them.
  • The trick is to integrate these three ideas. It is possible, I think, but at the very least the name should try to incorporate two of the three. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 22:25, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    • And actually, the more I think about it, the more I feel only a name involving "manipulation" could cover most/all of the aspects, as it explains the second and third aspects fairly clearly and cleanly. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 22:28, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    • Both the blast and the attraction could be treated as a single "emotional channelling" idea. This leaves us with two aspects, but, as I said, I don't think the synesthesia must necessarily appear, as Samuel said that the channel-emotions-through-music thing was her true ability.--Referos 22:33, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Eliminated Names

(If an appropriate counter-argument can be made, re-add to valid name list)

Aural empathy

  1. Opposed, same reason as "empathic musicality"--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:10, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, has nothing do to with any aura/spirit related abilities we know. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:14, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Actually, "aural" can refer both to auras or to the sense of hearing --Referos 20:25, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    You mean "auricular". Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:38, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Opposed. Aural refers to a sense of hearing. This term implies she can use her hearing to empathize which is entirely wrong. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Aural manipulation

  1. Opposed, same as aural empathy. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:14, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Actually, "aural" can refer both to auras or to the sense of hearing --Referos 20:25, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    You mean "auricular". Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:38, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, as she is manipulating people's reaction to sound, not their ability to hear sound, which is what this term implies. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Emotional musicality

  1. Opposed, anyone can feel emotional playing music. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:16, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, same as IE's response. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)


Emotional synesthesia

  1. Opposed, makes no reference to sound or music, which is a large part of the ability.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:14, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, this term implies she uses her emotions to see sound. Entirely incorrect. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Emotion-based sound manipulation

  1. Opposed. See "Emotion(al) sound manipuation". This term is identical. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Emotive synesthesia

  1. Opposed, as it does not refer to a crucial aspect of Emma's power: music (or sound)--Referos 20:32, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, see "Emotional synesthesia". --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Empathic musicality

  1. Opposed, empathy is sharing and understanding the feelings of others, Emma does not do this, musically or otherwise.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:02, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, pretty much what PJDEP said. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:14, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Opposed, same as PJDEP. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Empathic sound manipulation

  1. Opposed, same reason as "empathic musicality"--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:02, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, ditto. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:14, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Opposed, ditto. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Empathic synesthesia

  1. Opposed, same reason as "empathic musicality"--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:03, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, ditto. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:14, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Opposed, ditto. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Enhanced sound manipulation

  1. Opposed, no emotion involvement. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:14, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, as it seems like a better version of Echo's power.--Referos 20:25, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Opposed, same as Referos. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Enhanced synesthesia

  1. Opposed, far too unspecific, we have enough information about the ability to be more specific about how it works.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:21, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Unspecificness is a way to account for effects shown, and many others she might show depending on which emotion she uses. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:30, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    True. We do have "mental manipulation", after all, which is ridiculously unspecific.--Referos 20:41, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Enhanced synesthesia has no emotional implication however.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:27, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, this ability is substantially more than any level of synesthesia. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    The ability was called a "form of synesthesia" in a HI, which we have used to argument ability names before, and not far apart in time, there was an interview saying that Emma's ability would have an effect on what she sees. The whole emotion thing is that effect. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 21:08, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Oppose, barely describes the ability. --Action Figure 00:55, 13 January 2010 (EST)
  4. Oppose, same as what Action Figure said. --Darkfiremaster13 02:00, 13 January 2010 (EST)

Music(al) manipulation

  1. Opposed, doesn't mention how she manipulates music, and suggests she can manipulate music she isn't playing, which is speculative.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:23, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed to "Music manipulation", as she is not manipulating the music itself. Slightly opposed to "Musical manipulation", as while she is using music to manipulate others, she can also see sound (which encompasses more than "music"). --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Musical empathy

  1. Opposed, because empathy is not used in the correct context. If taken literally, "musical empathy" would refer to an ability that lets you hear a person's emotions through music.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:10, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, same as PJDPED's reasons for names containing empathy. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:14, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Opposed, same as above. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Sonic emotional conversion

  1. Opposed, Samuel said she merges them, it's not a conversion. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:16, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, same as above. She is not converting sound into emotions. She is using music to instill emotions. Very different. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:45, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Sonic empathy

  1. Opposed, same reason as "musical empathy"--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:10, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Sonic hypnosis

  1. Opposed, smashing walls is not hypnosis. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:16, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Sound manipulation (merge with Echo's and Jesse's power)

  1. --Referos 19:58, 12 January 2010 (EST) While both manipulate sound, Emma's manner of manipulating is quite distinct from Echo's and Jesse's.
  2. Opposed, these are absolutely different abilities. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:47, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Synesthetic attraction

  1. Opposed, smashing walls is not hypnosis. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:16, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Hypnosis? Haha, check your copy-pasta.--Referos 20:25, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Kinda is, she attracts people through some sort of sound hypnotism. Anyway, you get the point. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:30, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed. She does not use her ability to see sound to attract people. The term is outright wrong. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:47, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Synesthetic empathy

  1. Opposed, same reason as "musical empathy"--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:11, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, same reasons PJDEP has for names with empathy in it. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:18, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Opposed. She is not using her ability to see sound to empathize. Completely wrong. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:47, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Synesthetic manipulation

  1. Opposed, makes no reference to what is being manipulated, or how it is being manipulated.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:18, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    She manipulated emotions and objects, unless there's a word that defines both these things, no word should be used between synesthetic and manipulation. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:30, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    She manipulates sound, but that's nowhere in the ability name.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:42, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    She manipulates sound to manipulate other things, it's not the subject of the ability, it's the medium. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:44, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    It still should be mentioned in the name however.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:46, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed. She is not using her synesthesia to manipulate anything. She is using sound to manipulate. Her synesthesia allows her to see the sound she is manipulating. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:47, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. As above. - Jenx222 | U / T / C | <inlcudeonly>08:00, 7 January 2012 (EST) 20:55, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Synesthetic sound manipulation

  1. Opposed. It sounds like it is a form of Echo/Jesse's ability with the addition of being able to see the sound, which is not the case. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:47, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed, makes no reference to emotions or attraction.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:02, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Temperamental sonic manipulation

  1. Opposed, temperamental would mean she does it by being enraged, angry, cheeky, or bad temper. Not what happens. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:18, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Untrue. While "temperamental" can refer to an irritable person, it can also refer to one's emotional and mental state.--Referos 20:32, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Opposed. "Temperamental" is too restrictive. She has used calm emotions to attract people too. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:47, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Thinking again, a person's temperament is his or her emotional predisposition, which is somewhat fixed. Emma's power relies on her emotional state, which is quite variable, so it's not based on her temperament.--Referos 21:01, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Temperamental sonokinesis

  1. Opposed, same reason of above name. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:18, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    Untrue. While "temperamental" can refer to an irritable person, it can also refer to one's emotional and mental state.--Referos 20:32, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  2. Regardless, opposed, because sonokinesis means the movement of sound, not manipulation of sound.--Referos 20:32, 12 January 2010 (EST)
  3. Opposed. First reaction: "What?" Second reaction: Same problem as "Temperamental sonic manipulation". Additionally, "sonokinesis" is not a wide enough term, she doesn't only control the motion of sound waves, she instills emotion into them as well. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:47, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Other (please add)

Notes/Comments

  • For pretty formatting, please cross opposed names with the underline tag, and use the thing-that-looks-like-a-tic-tac-toe-board hash symbol (#) rather than asterisk (*) when posting comments.--Referos 20:25, 12 January 2010 (EST)
    • I'm adding a new idea: Samuel said that her true ability is that her emotions can be come one with the music, so I think "Music and emotion integration" could be a possibility.--Referos 21:24, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Rename this Emma's ability for now

Until a consensus is reached, which may take a while, I suggest we move this to Emma's ability. At least then the name isn't wrong even if there is a better one. --OutbackZack 20:33, 14 January 2010 (EST)

Manipulative Synesthesia

According to the interviews, Emma has a "form of synesthesia", right? Emma's ability allows her to "manipulate" her synesthesia condition. By "manipulating" it, I mean she manipulates its effect, which are colors coming from sounds. "Manipulative Synesthesia" explains how she can manipulate the sound she sees, but can only manipulate those she herself creates. The effects(alluring people toward her or making dents in walls) is an aspect of her "manipulating" her condition.

Or, it could be "Emotional Manipulative Synesthesia", though it's a bit long. It could explain how her emotions are directly linked to the ability, though I'm not entirely convinced it is. Emma doesn't seem too "emotional" when she lured the people into her.Realistic

  • She's not manipulating the synesthesia. --Riddler 18:34, 15 January 2010 (EST)
    • Through the sound she sees. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:51, 15 January 2010 (EST)
      • That doesn't make any sense. Synesthesia is a real condition that crosses the senses. No form of such a condition would ever have an external effect. Synesthesia is strictly in one's own head, and no "manipulation" of a condition like that could explain this ability. That's like saying someone with leukemia and acidic blood has, when cut, acidic leukemia. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:29, 15 January 2010 (EST)
        • Hey, there probably isn't a perfect name, we're just throwing things out there. Also, this is a tv show, some lack of logic is required. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:56, 15 January 2010 (EST)

Four

We seem to have it down to four potential names, is it time to bring this to a consensus poll? --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:30, 15 January 2010 (EST)

  • It's been a while, I think it's okay to start a poll.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:34, 15 January 2010 (EST)
    • I know I came in WAY late in this discussion...but I have a suggestion...I don't have time to read the whole thing...so feel free to shoot me down if my Idea has already been shot down before. I think that Emma' power should be named Music Manipulation because that's what she basically does. She can see lots of sound, but usually only music, or sound that would make some plausible music. She cracked her wall with the song that she was playing because the song showed her fear, therefore she accidentally cracked her wall. Furthermore, she used music to lure Peter to her, and can probably use the same song to do so with others, but just manipulate the music by thinking of who she wants to bring in. Thanks for reading this and giving it some consideration...if you didn't then oh well...I tried.***---Mr. Applez
        • I think you're wrong there. Does sounds coming from breaking china and kicked trash cans count as "music"(or plausible music)? She can clearly do more with other forms of sound other than music.--Realistic