Episode talk:The Art of Deception

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Oh, my.

It was a great episode, but very disturbing throughout all of it. Doyle is controlling Emma in the dream. Matt turns on Sylar (granted, Sylar is a deranged killer, but Matt said he saw into his head and knew he meant he wanted to change). Samuel has Eli do the dirty work to a grand scale, then makes sure Lydia knows he did it before she dies?... this episode was extreme.--Riddler 21:59, 25 January 2010 (EST)

• The one stupid thing that stood out to me is that Claire just didn't bother trying to bring Lydia back. They REALLY need to address her ability to revive the dead. Of course, if they did, I'd probably be here complaining that they took the cheap cop-out method to keep Lydia around. Still, one line would have been nice.--Gibbeynator 22:02, 25 January 2010 (EST)
  • I thought it was kind of creepy that Matt was going to live a normal life with his family after putting a serial killer in his wall. A bit odd of a move on Matt's part. I didn't see Doyle controlling Emma though.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 22:03, 25 January 2010 (EST)
    • He was on the right side of the screen as Emma was playing the Cello, moving his arms as if he were playing it, in Peter's dream.--Riddler 22:04, 25 January 2010 (EST)
      • This was a fantastic episode, but where was Amanda? Her mom was kinda lying there dead, and she was no where to be found?--Ratclaws 22:06, 25 January 2010 (EST)
        • She was hiding out in one of those giant plot holes the writers like to make once in a while.--Gibbeynator 22:12, 25 January 2010 (EST)
        • I was just thinking that. I mean, they can't say she was sleeping through the gunshots and screaming. I suppose Sasha Pieterse wasn't available for filming or something.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:20, 25 January 2010 (EST)
          • Perfect episode, and i think that the reason they didnt have claire save lydia to show that everyone can't be invincible in heroes and people do actually die. daevon 22:34, 25 January 2010 (EST)
            • Or, when she was saying things like "stop the bleeding, keep pressure on the wound" she was trying to prep Lydia for a transfer and she didn't get there in time. Samuel did tell her it was too late. It doesn't seem as if she can just dribble blood in someone's wound. Both times the blood's been used it's been in a certain type of situation, and I think many viewers have blown its effects out of proportion. --DigitalCount 22:42, 25 January 2010 (EST)
              • Noah had his brains blown out but he still came back. I think the writers just need to outline the specifics of the RCR blood transfer.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:44, 25 January 2010 (EST)
                • I don't think Claire knew how her blood "can" revive the dead. Or at least if she did, Samuel would make sure she didn't. I'm glad Claire figured it out that it wasn't Noah, because I can't stand it when she's naive. And seriously it was obvious it wasn't Noah, it wasn't funny, but then the Carnival people don't know about Noah so I guess that's okay. But seriously, Noah would never shoot wildly, attacking anyone in sight, he'd probably be calculating and he would make sure he killed someone. Although the faith in Samuel is so annoyingly blind. I mean come on, what Joseph dies and suddenly Samuel is so great, you'd believe every word he says without thinking, especially after he kills a whole town. Wow, just wow. But anyway.--Dman dustin 23:11, 25 January 2010 (EST)
                  • As a note, Claire does know. When Bennet got shot in the eye, when he saw Claire again, he told her it was her blood. Further proof is when Peter needed Noah to find him Jeremy, Claire asked, "Why can't you just use my blood?"--Riddler 02:00, 26 January 2010 (EST)
                    • I thought this episode gave us conclusive proof that Claire's blood doesn't work on the dead. Like someone said above, I thought she grabbed Doyle to help set up a makeshift transfusion, but Lydia had died before she got back. Because if it did work on the dead, then Samuel saying "it's too late" wouldn't mean anything, right? This is, at a stretch, consistent with past events- Nathan wasn't dead, Maya had literally just been shot so it's concievable her heart was still beating, and Noah was very very near death and they had the blood set up in the van. A dark episode overall to be sure, particularly Matt's scenes with Sylar (him bricking up the body in his basement was downright creepy). But I prefer this to something like Close to You, where it's close to just silly. Swm 06:29, 26 January 2010 (EST)
                      • A sentance or two, that's all I wanted. Something like "I can use my blood to bring her back." "No, we don't do that here..." "OK." We're reaching Countdown levels of plot forgetfulness here, and I'd rather not have Heroes turn into Countdown.--Gibbeynator 07:16, 26 January 2010 (EST)
• You see though, that's my point. It's not a plot hole. It's consistent with past events, and the fact that Claire even went to try and use her blood shows they haven't just forgotten about it. Just because it's not acknowledged verbally doesn't mean anything. Swm 07:21, 26 January 2010 (EST)
  • Maybe so, but they really shouldn't have acted as though Claire's blood can't revive the dead (If it basically brought HRG back from being shot through the eye, it can certainly bring Lydia back from the dead.). Of course, seeing how Samuel Sullivan seemed to know her ability, I'm guessing one of the reasons he's keeping Claire locked up is so he could prevent her from trying to revive her. I'm also suspecting that it was Samuel, not the bullet wound, that was directly responsible for her death, as that second kiss seemed to be planted there to drain any oxygen from her. Also, is the actress who played Lydia greek? I'm asking because she looks like one of my classmates at College, and that classmate is from Greece. Pokeria1 08:33, 26 January 2010 (EST)
  • And another stupid moment here, Edgar can run really fast, but he doesn't make it to the carnival until AFTER the bloodbath? Even if he didn't have a compass, the destruction of an entire town made the 24-hour news channels, he should have been able to put 2 and 2 together. And thirdly, I know this was probably written and filmed before the Haiti earthquake but still, TOO SOON. It's like, I know they wrote and filmed the premiere BEFORE that college girl was killed and stuffed in a wall, but still...--Gibbeynator 07:24, 26 January 2010 (EST)
    • As a general point, nobody's forcing you to watch the show. If you're uncomfortable with it, you don't need to watch it. But to say that because you're uncomfortable with it, nobody should be allowed to watch it (which is what would happen if it were called off), is going far too far for me. As for Edgar, I more got the impression that someone contacted him after Lydia's death to let him know. He wouldn't have launched an attack on the place by himself. Swm 07:31, 26 January 2010 (EST)
      • I know, and I did vow to myself and to my family that if Claire ever becomes a lesbian (thus completely contradicting the seasons/volumes prior to it), that episode would be my last, as I do NOT want any contradictions, especially those on sexual orientation (as that, like abilities and pigmentation, are down to the genetic level.). Pokeria1 08:33, 26 January 2010 (EST)
        • I really don't think Claire's blood can revive the dead. Otherwise it would have been used on Nathan at the end of Volume 4, and Samuel didn't actually prevent Claire using it here, he simply said it was too late, and Claire didn't even try to help her. This says to me that Claire knows that her blood is useless on a dead body, and that Noah wasn't dead when Mohinder shot him. Claire being attracted to women doesn't actually contradict anything- like Gretchen, she could just be bisexual. Swm 09:36, 26 January 2010 (EST)
          • The problem with that is that Claire had never shown ANY attraction to the same sex prior to Redemption (and seeing how she was on the Cheerleading squad in the three prior seasons, with her gender with similar typed bodies, that's saying quite a lot.). It makes absolutely no sense that Claire can just be Bisexual in this season. They could have implied it (similar to how Smither's homosexual nature in The Simpsons was only implied) in the previous seasons, but they never did. Pokeria1 13:37, 26 January 2010 (EST)
          • We know the regeneration ability can revive the dead, and Noah certainly LOOKED dead... what I said earlier about this turning into Countdown, yeah, too late.--Gibbeynator 09:52, 26 January 2010 (EST)
            • I think the explanation given for Nathan was that he had bled out by the time everyone arrived, and Claire's blood can't work in those conditions. But that may have been a fan theory, and Lydia may have bled out by the time Claire arrived, although that's unlikely.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 10:15, 26 January 2010 (EST)
              • Jack Coleman said that in an interview if I'm not mistaken. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:18, 26 January 2010 (EST)
• Empath is correct. How do we know Claire's blood can revive the dead? The only example of it is Noah, and even that's not certain. Blood loss seems far less important than the lack of a heartbeat or some other force to pump Claire's blood around the body. Swm 12:26, 26 January 2010 (EST)
  • Even if Noah did have a heart beat, he was already with an IV, heart beat or no heart beat, the blood was getting in, and being pushed by more blood coming in. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:36, 26 January 2010 (EST)

That guy with fire...

That wasn't Chris Bowman was it? He was standing next to the woman with the kid girl in her arms that might have been Gail and Jennie. If it was him, fire breathing sure must have evolved!--Ratclaws 22:27, 25 January 2010 (EST)

• I think it was a different person. I liked the effect used for pyrokinesis in this episode though, more like a fireball and less like an open flame.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:31, 25 January 2010 (EST)
  • He kinda looked like the new drawing of Chris in todays iStory.--Ratclaws 23:10, 25 January 2010 (EST)
    • It was definitely Chris. Heroes Interactive:The Art of Deception confirmed it. It looks like Chris can do more than just breathe fire.... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:21, 26 January 2010 (EST)
      • If he's always been known as a firebreather, and he can make fire with his hands now, is it alright to assume that Fire breathing is Pyrokinesis, or are we gonna keep the two separate? Also, I can't remember, did he make the fire with his hand on screen? The shape of it made it look like he was holding a flaming ball, and if it was done off screen, it's entirely possible he has a ball he lit on fire with his mouth.--Riddler 00:36, 26 January 2010 (EST)
        • It's a tough call, Riddler. He's been explicitly called a fire breather before, and we've never seen a pyrokinetic who was able to breathe fire. Add to that that we never saw Chris actually make the fireball (he was holding it), and it's hard to say conclusively that the two powers were the same. I think for now, it's best that we just add that Chris has another aspect of his ability to breathe fire, sort of like Jennie made fire come out of her nose and her eyes. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:13, 26 January 2010 (EST)
        • I've always found the logic of calling it fire breathing bizarre, really, because it implies that if the fire comes from the hands, it's one ability, and if it comes from the mouth, it's another. But under the current guidelines we'd just have to say Chris has the ability to generate fire from other places then his mouth. Swm 06:32, 26 January 2010 (EST)
          • Seems like fire breathing can work through every opening in the body. What's next, fire sweating? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:18, 26 January 2010 (EST)

Peter, Sylar and Peter's dream about Emma

It's looking more and more like Sylar is the only one that can save Emma, but if she's being controled by Eric Doyle (I rewatched that part and Eric is there but its not clear if he's just watching or controling her) it may be saving her by killing him finally. It's cool how Peter is using telepathy to enter Sylar's mind to try to save him. Ever since he replicated that power the first time, he's shown more aspects of it then when he just mimicked it.--WarGrowlmon18 22:40, 25 January 2010 (EST)

• I swear I saw his arms moving as if he were making her play.--Riddler 22:44, 25 January 2010 (EST)
  • Emma looked like she was in pain (her fingers were bleeding) but her facial expression wasn't of anger but sadness, she looked like she was being controlled by doyle. And Sylar looked like he was really trying to save her. daevon 22:49, 25 January 2010 (EST)
    • I just watched that scene again in slow motion and doyle WAS controlling Emma. You can clearly see him behind her, in his blue suit, making the gestures for playing a violin. daevon 23:32, 25 January 2010 (EST)
      • Emma's fingers were bleeding pretty badly in that scene. I very much doubt she'd be angry enough to actually hurt herself unless she was being controlled. If Doyle's doing it, then that explains why she looks so upset, because we know from a prior GN that Doyle can't control their facial movements. Swm 06:33, 26 January 2010 (EST)

Gabriel "Fortunato" Gray

• When Matt was bricking in Sylar, I kept thinking back to Edgar Allen Poe's story The Cask of Amontillado. I wonder if it was inspired by that. :) (Admin 00:21, 26 January 2010 (EST))
  • Exactly what I thought back to :) Dean 02:46, 26 January 2010 (EST)

Peter turning into his Mum

• Angela had a chance to finally stop Sylar at the end of last season and instead she used Sylar for the "Greater Good", now Peter wants to do the same thing to save Thousands of people even though he knows hes Nathan's murderer and will probably kill even more people. Hes entering that morally Grey area that shes already in. lukas333
  • Yep, and Matt's turning into his father. Oh motifs! =P --Nicknameguy 10:52, 26 January 2010 (EST)

Noah

• Where was Mohinder in all this? I thought Noah needed him to use the compass to find the carnival. AHHH Great episode btw, extremely intense. --Nicknameguy 01:15, 26 January 2010 (EST)
  • That was what I was wondering, how could Noah and Lauren get to the carnival without an evolved human, and Edgar without a compass? --Jmfdr91 01:33, 26 January 2010 (EST)
    • In an early version of the script, it actually was Mohinder who raided the carnival with Noah, rather than Lauren. That was changed somewhere along the way. However, Mohinder did build the compass, and he left the instructions that he needed a special to operate it. That's neither Lauren nor Noah. I would imagine that they used another contact offscreen. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:34, 26 January 2010 (EST)
      • Interesting. It looked like Noah and Lauren already had satellite photos of the carnival, so I guess it can be seen using certain types of cameras and it was simply invisible to the naked eye. Thus, once Samuel destroyed the nearby town, Noah really didn't need the compass anymore. He just had Lauren get him satellite photos and that led them there. Just my theory.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:44, 26 January 2010 (EST)
        • Yeah, that makes sense. Find the town that sinks into the ground, and head in that direction. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:49, 26 January 2010 (EST)
          • I just assumed that there was a bit of time between the end of Pass/Fail and this episode, so Noah could have checked up on Hiro (he did almost die in his apartment, after all), and gotten Ando to point the way for them. Miami's theory also makes a great deal of sense. Swm 06:37, 26 January 2010 (EST)

Intense episode, eh?

n/t -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:09, 26 January 2010 (EST)

• I thought so. Very disturbing throughout... hence my original thread up top. ;D--Riddler 02:12, 26 January 2010 (EST)
  • Yeah, but your thread got hijacked, so I wanted to emphasize the intensity of the episode, rather than have people get lost in quibbling over minor inconsistencies in an otherwise outstanding episode. It was really weird to see Matt so angry and vengeful like that. "Enjoy hell" or whatever he said. Wow. And putting up "The Wall"--that was pretty cool! Can't wait to see how things turn out. We're really on a freight train until the season finale, aren't we! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:21, 26 January 2010 (EST)
    • This season has had very disturbing kisses, Sylar kissing a restrained Angela and Claire, now Samuel kissing a dying Lydia. Vanessa and Samuel kissing after she broke her heart wasn´t very lovely either. Am I the only one who thinks that´s kinda creepy? Nice episode btw, this has been a great season. --Jmfdr91 02:44, 26 January 2010 (EST)
      • Now they've gotta show us a Judas kiss, if they're so obsessed with kisses. Somebody has to betray Samuel and avenge Lydia! AltesUTC CH 02:51, 26 January 2010 (EST)

Evan Davis

Where was he? Did Samuel call someone Evan?--Ratclaws 09:24, 26 January 2010 (EST)

• Never mind, just saw his talk page.--Ratclaws 09:28, 26 January 2010 (EST)

Lydia

R.I.P. Why do they always kill good characters? Let's hope that the writers don't pull a Daphne on her and never mention her again. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:18, 26 January 2010 (EST)

• I guess the message had to sink in. It wouldn't have been as affecting if they killed Damien or Jenny.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 10:19, 26 January 2010 (EST)
  • The plan wouldn't have worked if she didn't die, either. Since if she touched him in any way, she would see what his plan was. She's like a different type of mind-reader. Well, she was. Haha.--anguard 10:56, 26 January 2010 (EST)
    • It actually made sense for Lydia to die, unlike Daphne/Knox/numerous other characters. Samuel needed a sacrifice and the other carnies were seemingly beginning to rally around her. By killing her, he unites them against the outside world and removes the only other contender for leadership. Swm 12:26, 26 January 2010 (EST)
      • At the very least, they could have given some other character the amount of development they gave Lydia, I don't buy Edgar being as developed as her, so don't even try it. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:36, 26 January 2010 (EST)

So, Sylar will save the world

Everything kind of make sense now. BTW, one, if not the best episodes of this volume so far. --Themd 11:44, 26 January 2010 (EST)

• Save the serial killer, save the world.--Halfxwitted 13:26, 26 January 2010 (EST)

Worst episode? or one of the worst?

Anyone else think so?? I didn't like it the least bit. Personally, I think Sylar just needs to die now. They've tried to kill him 8 different ways, and it isn't in the least bit dramatic or suspenseful anymore. Second of all, they could've brought back Lydia with Claire's blood anyway. Noah was dead and he was brought back... lots of characters have died and have been brought back. And there are honestly conveniently no healers or what not? I hope Tracy comes back. I'm mad Lydia died cause she was one of my favorite new characters with a lot of potential. But surprise!!! They kill her too... -.- And well I just am very disappointed this episode. Maybe I need to rewatch it but there were a lot of confusing parts. --Jason Garrick 13:18, 26 January 2010 (EST)

• The episode really rocked, like really. But i agree on you on Sylar, he is the best villian i know and they are %$$# him up. I dont think that Sylar has to die but atleast have an villian end.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 13:21, 26 January 2010 (EST)
  • I also agree that Sylar needs to die (preferably at the end of season 1). Although, I think trapping him in his worst nightmare WOULD HAVE BEEN the most unique way to have done that.--Halfxwitted 13:28, 26 January 2010 (EST)
    • I have a feeling Tracy may be back next week with her "Xavier's School for the Gifted" role... from the GN... like an X-men stand-off. I also think that if they're killing Sylar off...he'll die a heroes death, taking Samuel with him. --mc_hammark 13:44, 26 January 2010 (EST)
      • I disagree. This is one of the best episodes of the season, for me. I've no real feeling on Sylar one way or the other- personally, I'd strip him of all his powers except TK, but if he should die, fine. They couldn't have brought Lydia back, because it either needs to be done intravenously or can't work on the dead. I prefer the latter- and Noah wasn't dead. Watch the episode again. Noah asks "why am I not dead?" Mohinder replies "You would have been..." meaning he never died, despite how it might look. The carnivel doesn't have a healer, which is why Samuel was so happy when Emma came. It's fine not to like it because Lydia died, but it's wrong to say it's one of the worst. Swm 13:50, 26 January 2010 (EST)
        • Not necessarily, it can also be understood as "you'd still be dead", what Mohinder said. The similarities with Claire when she was on the autopsy table are also to great to ignore. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 14:10, 26 January 2010 (EST)