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Talk:Teleportation

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine teleportation's name.
Source/Explanation
"Teleportation" is the name of a file in The Genesis Files. Additionally, the interactive map and the assignment tracker map explicitly list "teleportation" as the name of the ability. Joanne says that Tommy is a teleporter (Odessa).

Delete

I don't see any reason to have this as a separate ability.--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:56, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

  • Keep - We have plant growth and plant manipulation which are similar, but different. --Pinkkeith 10:57, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
    • I don't see any reason to keep this as a separate ability. "Similar but different" warrants separate articles (just like Debbie and Piper are similar, but should be different articles). However, articles that are about a subject that is incorporated by something larger should be separate articles. Strain 138 redirects to a section of Shanti virus, just as it should. Brooklyn redirects to a section of New York, NY, just as it should. Teleportation, too, should redirect to a section of space-time manipulation. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:22, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
      • If we are going to take this approach we should be redirecting plant growth to plant manipulation and we should also state that Manuel Garcia has the ability space-time manipulation instead of teleportation since we are claiming that are the same thing. I don't mind one way or the other, but we should be consistent and uniform in our naming conventions regarding articles. --Pinkkeith 14:26, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
        • Given that there is characters said to have teleportation as their ability it should have it's own article as well. To only redirect teleportation to space-time manipulation would be to say that the teleporter's ability is the same as the space-time manipulator's ability to bend space - and to say that is speculation; we don't have anything to back up such a statement.
        • So - to put it short: A strong'keep! Pierre 14:45, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
          • This is a bit complicated I think. We know that the Teleporter can't teleport as far as Hiro and that he can't bend time (confirmed in an interview). However, there are two possibilities: either he has a different ability than Hiro, or he has the same ability, but is not as experienced. If we had seen this ability being used, I would say it should get its own article, for the same reasons that plant growth and plant manipulation aren't merged (we don't know if Au Co had a different ability than Lewis, or if she had the same ability, but at a lower development level). However! We haven't seen this ability being used, therefore, it's unconfirmed. Like dynamic camouflage, transportation, deoxygenation and weather control, it shouldn't get its own article. I suppose that a note in space-time manipulation will suffice.--Referos 15:47, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

My two cents:
A)it is making an asumptive and speculative leap to redirect this with Space-time manipulation. The writer of the GN told us that Teleporter cannot bend time or go as far as Hiro. Right now we are saying that the Teleporter and Hiro have the same ability, which may not be true. I take Mark Sable's words as face value, that is to say, it is physicaly imposible for Teleporter to bend time. Bottom line, we need to treat Teleportation as a separate ability from space-time manip. This is the same as the difference between the electrical abilities (electromagnetism, lightning, and electrical absorption) and the plant abilities (plant growth and plant manipulation). There are aparent diferences between the members of those ability groups, and we are told that there are diferences between Teleporter and Hiro. long story short, space-time manip and teleportation are different and separate. Teleportation should not redirect to Space time manip.
B) Just as we havent seen Deoxygenation, Weather control, et al., this ability to is unseen, and thus we do not have enough info to make an article on it. Because it is unseen, it unconfirmed to us. Therefore we need to redirect this to List of abilities#List of Unconfirmed Abilities. --SacValleyDweller (talk) 22:08, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Consensus check

Just putting this here.

Keep as a redirect to Space-time manipulation

  1. MiamiVolts (talk) 22:02, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
  2. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk)
  3. Jason Garrick 00:24, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
  4. Therequiembellishere 00:13, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
  5. Skywalkerrbf 00:13, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
  6. Friskymuffin - (talk) 04:31, 11 August 2008 (EDT) (as long as we add information about teleporter and his use of "teleportation" onto space-time manipulation page)
  7. Psilaq Remake 16:31, 18 December 2008 (EST)


Toss and treat Teleportation like we treat Deoxygenation and Weather control

  1. SacValleyDweller (talk) 21:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
  2. Pierre 06:38, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
  3. Referos 09:13, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
  4. --Pinkkeith 10:53, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
  5. Ericcarner 08:45, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
  6. Iceman 11:42, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
  7. Piemanmoo 04:16, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
  8. Rybo5000 18:48 11 August 2008 (EDT) (This is me voting Teleporation as seperate power right? :S)

Split the two abilities into different pages

  1. --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 11:13, 18 December 2008 (EST) - I agree that we should split the ability. Why exactly would we compare this to Deoxygenation and Weather Control? The ability has been demonstrated to us through Rachel Mills unlike the other two.
  2. --Ricard Desi 14:12, 18 December 2008 (EST) ONLY if it's made abundantly clear through The Recruit that they are distinct.
  3. -- Fred1793 18:39, 18 December 2008 (EST) its defiantly different.
  4. -- Dracomaster4 19:36, 18 December 2008 (EST)
  5. --The Mysterious Major Despard 19:50, 18 December 2008 (EST)
  6. --Sylarmage 10:49, 31 December 2008 (EST)
  • This consensus check is old and obsolete. The newer check can be found at this link. It's already been decided that teleportation and space-time manipulation should be two distinct abilities since Rachel does not have Hiro's ability. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:20, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Which

I don't get this consensus. Which one exactly is saying that we need to split the two abilites? and to avoid my confusion, I've made a new section in the choices. --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 11:12, 18 December 2008 (EST)

  • This is an old consensus. New information has negated old decisions. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:01, 18 December 2008 (EST)
    • LOL I didn't notice the dates! XP --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 16:03, 18 December 2008 (EST)
      • The new consensus check is at this link. And, as you may have been able to tell, the pages have already been split. This is necessary since Rachel Mills does not have Hiro's power. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:11, 18 December 2008 (EST)
        • lol , I didn't realize I started the consensus myself haha --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 16:13, 18 December 2008 (EST)
          • You started a discussion thread. The consensus came about when everyone either agreed or didn't respond. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:21, 18 December 2008 (EST)

My View

If someone was searching for Hiros power, they would promerly call it teleportation any way. And the teleporter guy might not of used his power but we did actually see him. --Skywalkerrbf 07:51, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

  • Agree. I'm not sure what the above consensus check means when it says to treat teleportation like we treat deoxygenation, but if it means redirecting teleportation to list of abilities, that certainly won't happen. Most of the links on this site about teleportation are related to Hiro, or are examples of Hiro using that facet of his ability. We definitely won't be creating a bunch of red links for a legitimate power and a legitimate search term. At the very least, it'll be a redirect to space-time manipulation, which I'll take care of now. If others would like to discuss the validity of the power deserving its own page, that's fine. But I don't think it's wise to discuss deleting the redirect altogether, or to discuss making the redirect point to a general reference page listing all the powers. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 09:26, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
    • I think it is fine as it is now, explicitly putting the Teleporter and Tracy in the unconfirmed section, but if we eventually get a confirmation that space-time manipulation and teleportation are completely different powers, they should be separated.--Referos 11:57, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
    • If we are going to redirect teleportation to space-time manipulation should we say that Manuel Garcia has the ability of space-time manipulation rather then teleportation? --Pinkkeith 15:56, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
      • I don't think so. We don't have any evidence he has more than teleportation. Therequiembellishere 19:29, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
        • Yes, and, as far as we know, Hiro could for example teleport by moving through higher dimensions, while Manuel could perform some sort of quantum teleportation; so, in theory, they shouldn't have the same ability. However, I understand that it would be too messy to separate teleportation from space-time manipulation, so I don't mind leaving it as it is now.--Referos 20:01, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

Teleportation vs Space-time manipulation

Hiro, Peter, and Arthur should not be listed on this page. They can teleport, but they do not have the same ability as Rachel. Space-time manipulation can be listed in the Notes and the See Also sections, but the users of that ability should not be listed on this page. Likewise, Mohinder should not be listed on enhanced strength, Matt and Maury should not be listed on dream manipulation or illusion, Daphne should not be listed on space-time manipulation, Micah should not be listed on electronic communication, and Hana should not be listed on technopathy. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:14, 20 December 2008 (EST)

  • I think they all should because their abilities allow them to have access to other abilities. Hiro CAN teleport as part of his space-time manipulation power. Therefore, Hiro has the ability of teleportation as an extended use of his own powers. He should be in the teleportation page and listed as it being a part of his own power.--Ikkian 23:28, 20 December 2008 (EST)
    • The purpose of this page is not to list everybody who can teleport. The purpose of this page is to document a unique ability called "teleportation". Ando, Adam, Yaeko, the swordsmith, Caitlin, Matt, Elle, Sylar, and even Fake Kensei's horse have all teleported, but they don't have this ability. Hiro can teleport, but he does not have the same ability as Rachel Mills. When we start ascribing similar abilities to people who do not possess those abilities, we tread on very speculative ground and walk on a slippery slope. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:38, 20 December 2008 (EST)
      • Those characters you mentioned could be added as people who have teleported with someone's help, which doesn't make them users of this power themselves, although their mention is far from vital. I do still think that, since Hiro can teleport as a byproduct of his own ability, he should be noted as a powered whose ability also allows him the use of teleportation. In that same line, Adam and Claire should be added to the list of "Healing" since their blood has successfully healed some people. I know that their power isn't healing, but their ability allow them to do it nonetheless.--Ikkian 23:46, 20 December 2008 (EST)
        • Nowhere in the canon of Heroes that I know of is Hiro's ability explicitly listed as "teleportation". His ability is explicitly listed in Nathan's files as "space-time manipulation". Yes, I know Hiro can teleport. That still doesn't mean he has Rachel's ability. There is no way to say that they teleport in the same way. Nor should people who have the ability of rapid cell regeneration be listed on the healing page. It's okay to mention the two abilities in the Notes sections of one another's page, but one ability does not equal the other, even if they resemble each other or have aspects of each other that are the same. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:03, 21 December 2008 (EST)
          • This is a case of ability homology: two abilities that as far as we know diverge in nature and mechanisms which present similar effects. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 09:21, 21 December 2008 (EST)
            • Hiro can teleport. In the simplest terms, this is true, and thus Hiro belongs on this page, noting he has an enveloping ability, space-time manipulation. Peter and Arthur I hesitated to add because they did not absorb THIS power, but Hiro's (and as thus, perhaps Hiro belongs on this page, but not Peter or Arthur.) Abilities on the show aren't as clean-cut as they were in Season One, we have to be willing to allow for overlaps. I agree with your sentiments on healing vs. RCR, as the blood transfusion makes it a very indirect result of one's power. --Ricard Desi 11:59, 21 December 2008 (EST)
              • We just can't, Ted made an EMP, does that mean he has electric manipulation? No, does him making a EMP means Elle should be listed under induced radioactivity? Again no. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:01, 21 December 2008 (EST)
                • The problem we're facing now (and we need to expect this will come up more and more in the upcoming volume, particularly with Ando's new power joining the fray) is that the lines are blurred, and we may be trying too hard to distinguish every individual instance from each other when they appear to be related. --Ricard Desi 12:21, 21 December 2008 (EST)
                  • I think the safest course of action is to distinguish between instances where the powers effects occurred (like time travel with Ando + Daphne) and the actual power itself (Hiro). We should be able to follow our normal naming conventions, and use discussion and consensus checks for the stickier situations, but I truly believe that the listing of aspects (like Hiro's teleportation), instances (like Ando + Daphne) and byproducts (like super speed for Santiago) should go in the notes section (only) on ability pages, be listed under limits on the evolved human pages, and be completely left off the ability subpages (eg - extension, simultaneous use, heredity, etc). If we start listing every instance an ability's effects occur, the place is going to get messy really fast. Besides, nothing has changed, imo. We didn't list Maury on the illusion page, even though he can create them, and that seems like the same situation with Hiro and teleportation. --Stevehim 13:46, 21 December 2008 (EST)
                    • You're exactly right, Stevehim. Instances of ability usage that resemble other abilities should be confined to the Notes sections--and even then, the note should be about the ability, not the person. For instance, an appropriate note on the illusion page would be "The ability of telepathy can be used to create erroneous perceptions of reality, similar to the alternate perceptions of reality created by the ability of illusion." Another, this one for Persuasion#Notes: "Those who have telepathic abilities can bend the will of others through verbal commands, similar to the ability of persuasion." Ricard Desi, I think you're right about the lines being blurred--which is precisely the reason we must keep abilities specific and exact, and not murky. Rachel Mills's ability of teleportation is not the same as Hiro's ability of space-time manipulation. Until it's revealed or confirmed that they are the same, they should be listed separately. Likewise, the characters should be listed separately. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:41, 21

I said this on Tommy/Nathan Clarke's page, the two abilities are difference, if you look how, Tommy teleports compared to Hiro, different effects are being used, plus Noah said, in July 13th, he remembered, what, he did to protect the twins; Tommy adopted mother had teleportation, hence, why, we first see him; the effects are difference from space-time manipulation.

The original July 13th Hiro was trapped in the game, and wasn't at the festival, so another, Space-time travel, or someone with supercharge and super speed took them back to 1999, with Tommy's adoptive mum, and Malina Guardian, Casper was also present, at the original point, that why, he has been protecting Tommy/Nathan. --Masterofgravity (talk) 10:30, 7 November 2015 (EST)

Sylar

Does Sylar have this ability? in Into Asylum he seems to teleport in Danko's car and then out of it again onto a rooftop. Bosco13 15:55 22 April 2009 (GMT)