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:Yes but when did Arthur "die"? Remember Nathan said Arthur was still breathing, it wasn't until they were at the hospital that he "died." It could've been very well a few hours since the time they found Arthur on the floor to the time Arthur told the doctor to tell his family he was dead.--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 01:36, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:Yes but when did Arthur "die"? Remember Nathan said Arthur was still breathing, it wasn't until they were at the hospital that he "died." It could've been very well a few hours since the time they found Arthur on the floor to the time Arthur told the doctor to tell his family he was dead.--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 01:36, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:: Also I should point out Nathan couldn't of truly knew what his father knew or didn't know. For all Nathan knew, Arthur didn't know anything. Of course I feel like I missing something, or I would say: It's not like Arthur blatantly told Nathan what he knew causing a continuity issue. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 01:58, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:: Also I should point out Nathan couldn't of truly knew what his father knew or didn't know. For all Nathan knew, Arthur didn't know anything. Of course I feel like I missing something, or I would say: It's not like Arthur blatantly told Nathan what he knew causing a continuity issue. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 01:58, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:::I agree, Arthur may have 'died' early the next morning. As for Nathan's comment to Peter, I think this episode shows us that his dad was very aware that they were going after Linderman and Nathan didn't hide that fact, but as far as Nathan knew, his dad was not aware Peter would be giving a deposition against Arthur.--[[User:Mistyjo|Mistyjo]] 11:20, 11 November 2008 (EST)
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_X_ Danny Pine
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Summary moved to main episode page
Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 21:06, 10 November 2008 (EST)
I'm updating the checklist of characters and locations, and I'll be doing some in place edits of Thrash's summary. I'm putting the summary in hide tags until the episode ends. --Falcomadol 21:09, 10 November 2008 (EST)
I've got a synopsis pretty much ready...
--Gadfly 00:01, 11 November 2008 (EST)
I was writing this as the episode was airing so... Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 00:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)
As was I, without the aforementioned gaps... just rewatching it for proofing purposes. Should be completely proofed in about 10 minutes.
--Gadfly 00:10, 11 November 2008 (EST)
And the second draft non-gap version, done.
--Gadfly 00:25, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Considering I already saved my summary on this page as the episode aired, I put that one in the main page. I've incorporated some of your summary into the gaps in mine. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 00:59, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Oh Hell Yes
This episode CLEANED HOUSE!--Falcomadol 21:59, 10 November 2008 (EST)
BUT USUTU... AND HIRO?? And wtf is Trevor's power?Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:00, 10 November 2008 (EST)
He has the power to shoot air! How amazing and I'm joking. -- Cael 22:02, 10 November 2008 (EST)
FFFFFFFFF! Fricking Arthur Petrelli is gay, man! I wanted Usutu to stay all alone and so we could have random precog from a place nobody's at so Usutu could know everything about everyone but not do anything about it. :P But it did clean house. It was pretty good. But I miss Usutu. Flint claims he got tackled by invisible man. Yay Claude reference! Trevor looks like a pervert, staring at Elle real creepy all the time. I'm guessing Trevor's power could've also been redeemed after the shanti virus and is what caused the lights to explode in the Bennet house. I had thought Trevor would have freezing. That would've cleaned house too. Kortu 22:08, 10 November 2008 (EST)
I miss Usutu too. But two new powers!!! I'm getting sick of the repeats... I'm so glad we're getting some new ones now. Metal hand guy was awesome. Seb.gwirionyn 22:13, 10 November 2008 (EST)
While I laughed at the Claude reference, it couldn't have been him. He was already long on the run from the company by this time. Just ano0ther of MANY plot-holes in this episode. (Elle having a relationship and going on missions with a partner, Sylar's never before seen power [unless you count when he shattered the lights in The Second Coming, but that would be ANOTHER plot hole since he doesnt have access to his old powers except for TK at the moment], Bennet knowing full well three of Sylar's powers but telling him while in captivity in season 1 that the only one they could figure out was TK...) --Action Figure 23:18, 10 November 2008 (EST)
That wasn't a plot hole, Sylar only exhibited Telekinesis through extensive testing. Bennet knew full well Sylar had multiple abilities, it's just Sylar wasn't exibiting those other abilities. --Dman dustin 01:11, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Secrecy is key to Noah's character, he hides things that don't need hiding along with those that do. Anything that makes him feel like he's building an advantage.--Falcomadol 01:38, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Great episode! I would be shocked if Hiro is really dead. I'm expecting it to be just a dream, and that he'll wake up, grab Ando and leave before Arthur can touch him. Unfortunately, I don't think Hiro can save Usutu (at least not in the short term). I got the Heroes Interactive, and will add it shortly.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Caps
I'll be capping in about 10 minutes if there is anything special that you want. I'll also be responding to things on the requested screencaps page as usual.--Falcomadol 22:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)
How about shots of Trevor's power? Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:07, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Headless Usutu, Haitian standing behind Angela and Arthur while eating, and Sylar on camera running around after his first kill would be nice. Metallic Skin Man and Flint popping popcorn would be sweet, too. Kortu 22:12, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Can you confirm what you mean by Sylar on camera running around after his first kill? I'm not seeing anything like that after Brian.--Falcomadol 23:21, 10 November 2008 (EST)
I'd like a couple shots of existing powers too... Elle using lightning to cut the noose, Linderman healing Angela's memory alterations, and lots of lovely flamethrowing actions by the Gordon siblings. Especially the popcorn popping 'cause that was power abuse at its finest. Seb.gwirionyn 22:15, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Got to get a cap of the list Sylar had with Trevor Zeitlan, James & Molly Walker (her first name was listed in parenthesis by her dad's name) on it. --Snow Leapord 22:35, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Ok so far I have the title card (it's the VILLAINS logo), I've got Flint popping corn, Meredith throwing fire, the noose, Thompson using the fire extinguisher to put out Flint, Elle using lightning to save Gabriel, Meredith and Flint (teamup), Meredith and Thompson (teamup), the homeless vet special, his power, Meredith flaming on to stop him, Gabriel's list, Noah's undercover van (interior and exterior), the peach pie, Arthur dominating Angela's mind, Flint burning stuff in the train, Angela's lentil soup in process, Linderman healing her memory, Elle's Ziti, Trevor, Trevor shooing glasses, the Hatian, Elle zapping Gabriel, Gabriel throwing Elle, Gabriel cutting open Trevor, Elle and Noah (teamup), Nathan finding Arthur apparently dead, Usutu's headless body, and his bodiless head, and Arthur holding Hiro's head. I'm going to start editing and posting these now.--Falcomadol 22:37, 10 November 2008 (EST)
You know: I really need an image of Sylar skulling this Trevor guy. I'm collecting pics of Sylar's kills for a friend. -- FlamingTomDude 2:52, 11 November 2008 (EDT)
I've got one, hold on a few minutes ;)--Falcomadol 02:05, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Ok, that's all the caps that I have, and it covers the whole episode. If you see something else that you want capped, let me know.--Falcomadol 02:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Arthur's Telepathy?
It seems as though his is more advanced than Matt or Maury's. Sort of combining mental manipulation and telepathy.Exproject 22:35, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Or maybe he has Mental Manipulation and Telepathy and was able to combine the use of them like Peter has been shown to combine the use of Invisibility & Telekinesis. --Snow Leapord 22:36, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Building on what Exproject said, Arthur could have "told" Angela to forget what she knew about his plans for Nathan. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:40, 10 November 2008 (EST)
It seemed to be straight telepathy to me. There were none of the telltale Haitian hand movements involved. I'd just stick with telepathy. Seb.gwirionyn
Neither of the other two telepaths have been able to command someone to say something and to simply erase memories or destroy the links to them. Either this is the next step of telepathy or combining the two abilities.Exproject 22:55, 10 November 2008 (EST)
If they can command someone to do something, why shouldn't they be able to command them to say something? Also, like I said, it's possible Arthur commanded Angela's brain to forget her memories (much like Eden was able to command her stepmother to die). Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:57, 10 November 2008 (EST)
To me it seemed more like "Mind Control" or "Mental Domination", which may be distinct from Telepathy, or like y'all said, Telepathy to the next octave (hope this formats correctly, forgive the noob :))--Dumpster juice 22:59, 10 November 2008 (EST)
I'm not sure about it just being told to do something. The fact that Linderman was able to restore her memories using his healing ability implies that there is some sort of physical trauma involved. This is more violent than simply mindfucking, this is mindraping.--Falcomadol 00:57, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Trevors Power...possible naming?
um...Im sure most of us are wondering the same thing, Trevors power, i SO thought it was gonna be freezing but no, its like TK bullets...or Air shots, maybe its the incredible power to make glass shatter...ohhh, thats on my desired list along with Nerve gas sweat and Stank Chlorine breath!--Anthony Gooch 22:37, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Perhaps this discussion should be continued on the actual talk page for Trevor's ability. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:38, 10 November 2008 (EST)
I'm coining it as FINGER BANG --Action Figure 23:07, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Perversity aside, I call winner.--Riddler 23:08, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Someone on Trevor's page seems to think it's Freezing.--Gadfly 01:35, 11 November 2008 (EST)
His power is a complicated one. By the naming convention we would call it 'Smashing' (descriptive) or 'Trevor's ability.' -- FlamingTomDude 1:54, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Continuity issue
Gabriel is hanging himself after killing Brian, and everything appears to be happening with Elle in a very short period of time, but as Noah and Elle are leaving after Gabriel kills Trevor, Mohindar is driving the cab, not Chandra...either this relationship worked itself out over a period of weeks, during which time Gabriel killed again (Chandra), or there's a reality gap here.--Falcomadol 23:20, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Nice catch...10 points for you lol--Anthony Gooch 23:26, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Just about to add this to my list of plotholes above. They act as though Trevor is Sylar's secongd murder, but he should have been killing for MONTHS by then including Chandra... This episode may have more plotholes and retcons than any other...--Action Figure 23:30, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Well, yeah, this episode did some weird things with the space time continium. Like how Elle managed to be in New York City and in Odessa, Texas at the same time. In Elle's First Assignment, Elle saw Claire jump off the coal mill. Part of this episode takes place on that same day (When HRG gets into Mohinder's cab). They all watched the eclipse that day. I guess that's what we get for letting Alexander take a hold of the reigns.--Cairoi 23:42, 10 November 2008 (EST)
I think we're just going to have to imagine that it was Chandra driving that cab then, that's the major lynchpin problem. How did you pin HRG getting into Mohinder's cab to the same day that Elle was watching Claire in the mill? The rest of this stuff could be somewhat flexible in terms of timing (the Meredith things could happen after the things shown contemporaneously in this episode, but in the same general period of time).--Falcomadol 23:45, 10 November 2008 (EST)
The eclipse happened when Peter got in Mohinder's cab, which was after Claire had both jumped off of the oil rig and saved the man in the train crash. Essentially, it should have been happening at the same time Sylar was killing Trevor, as Peter would have just been getting in the cab then. This is all in the same day. Genesis. --Action Figure 00:29, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Ah yeah, you're right. It wouldn't be simultaneous, but it would be happening within an hour (New York being Eastern time zone and Austin being Central, then you have Nikki in Vegas in the Mountain time zone. Of course, this is TV, where there are no time zones, probably).--Falcomadol 00:43, 11 November 2008 (EST)
I'm not sure I understand what you are all talking about but there was six months between the time Sylar killed Brian to the time Mr. Bennet got in the cab with Mohinder. I don't know if that helps or not. --Dman dustin 02:01, 11 November 2008 (EST)
So six months after killing Brian, and at least a week or two (to give Mohinder time to get to New York) after killing Chandra, Gabriel attempts to hang himself while suffering flashbacks of his killing of Brian, while not feeling any remorse at all over killing Chandra. And during this time, he manifests the full Gabriel personality, rather than the Sylar personality shown in the first season. This episode is just causing me problems, more of them the longer I think about it.--Falcomadol 02:17, 11 November 2008 (EST)
The other continuity error that got me was that when Thompson took down Flint and Meridith, his partner on that mission was alluded to be Claude. But by then Claude should've been long gone from the Company. --Maelwys 06:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)
List vs. List
Should we make different pages for Sylar's list and Chandra's list...if so, we need pics right? and did anyone catch those names on the list, did anyone else see Issacs name?--Anthony Gooch 23:25, 10 November 2008 (EST)
I have three different clear pictures of Gabriel's list. The names are Brian Davis, Trevor Zeitlan, James Walker (Molly), Charlene Andrews, and Sparrow Redhouse. Davis, Zeitlan, and Walker are not on Chandra's List, which is itself a problem...--Falcomadol 23:48, 10 November 2008 (EST)
There are multiple lists Chandra had (Post its really), and besides Davis should be on Chandra's list,because that's how Sylar knew about Brian. Sylar picked up a post it and he angrily said something like "So that's it? you're just going to give up. You think this guy (Brian Davis) can move things with his mind, or are you going to give up on him too." I know that's not exactly what he said but the idea is the same. He wouldn't have known about it if Chandra didn't. Same goes for James Walker, Sylar wouldn't have known about it if it was for Chandra. --Dman dustin 01:04, 11 November 2008 (EST)
I meant that these people were not included in the list shown in the wiki topic for Chandra's list, which is about the list that appeared on the computer. Trevor is completely new, which is IMHO a bad idea. Might as well kill off someone else whose name is out there that isn't being used for anything than create yet another new mutant to kill.--Falcomadol 01:32, 11 November 2008 (EST)
But Sylar made a list on what he knows, thanks to Chandra. Even if Trevor wasn't on the list with Nathan, and Claire, and whoever. Doesn't mean Chandra didn't know other evolved humans. AKA Post it notes. Or am I misinterpreting the point. --Dman dustin 01:40, 11 November 2008 (EST)
It's after two am, I'm not going to discuss this now.--Falcomadol 02:18, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Arthur's awareness of Nathan prosecuting Linderman
One of the first things that didn't sit right with me, amongst oh-so-much else in this epsidoe, was the confrontations between Nathan, his dad, and Linderman about Nathan taking Linderman to court. Having watched season 1 three times, I was reminded of the following from episode 10, "Six Months Ago":
"Peter is getting dressed in preparation for the deposition when there's a knock at the door. Nathan informs him that there's not going to be a deposition because their father is dead. Nathan claims that he died of a heart attack. He tells Peter to take comfort in the fact that their father didn't know what they were about to do to him." (Heroes Wiki episode summary)
I fast forwarded to this part personally and the direct quote from Nathan is as follows: "He had a heart attack this morning.... Take comfort in the fact that he didn't know his sons were about to stab him in the back."
Unforgivable oversight. More importantly, I remembered it because Arthur was supposed to be unaware of Nathan's prosecution of Linderman. But I also realized that the heart attack was supposed to have happened in the morning according to "Six Months Ago," while in "Villains," Nathan comes home and discovers his dad at night.
--Ilovegurana 01:28, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Yes but when did Arthur "die"? Remember Nathan said Arthur was still breathing, it wasn't until they were at the hospital that he "died." It could've been very well a few hours since the time they found Arthur on the floor to the time Arthur told the doctor to tell his family he was dead.--Dman dustin 01:36, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Also I should point out Nathan couldn't of truly knew what his father knew or didn't know. For all Nathan knew, Arthur didn't know anything. Of course I feel like I missing something, or I would say: It's not like Arthur blatantly told Nathan what he knew causing a continuity issue. --Dman dustin 01:58, 11 November 2008 (EST)
I agree, Arthur may have 'died' early the next morning. As for Nathan's comment to Peter, I think this episode shows us that his dad was very aware that they were going after Linderman and Nathan didn't hide that fact, but as far as Nathan knew, his dad was not aware Peter would be giving a deposition against Arthur.--Mistyjo 11:20, 11 November 2008 (EST)
