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Talk:Tracy Strauss/Archive 1

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Edits

As of this date and time, the article I am attempting to edit is completely inaccurate. In fact, the page has been reverted to exactly the same one as I've been trying to change; save a section or two (Evolved Human Abilities). In my opinion, the photo I've recently uploaded is far more similar in tone to the other characters' pages and not nearly as blurry as the previous one. Of course, since no official (colored) promo pic was released for Tracy Strauss, it is entirely up to you. I also suggest going with my more developed character summary and not the one which erroneously refers to the governor of New York as the senator. Once again, these are just small quibbles that I think need fixing and the decision is entirely up to you... Smokezilla

If anyone has any further plans to edit this page, please notify me whenever you do. I'd hate to re-edit the administrator's intended layout. Smokezilla

What do you mean? Are you getting edit conflicts or something? That just means someone else completed an edit before you did and it doesn't know what to do with the changes you tried to make now since the article is different. (Admin 02:32, 23 September 2008 (EDT))
Yeah, that's it. Can't figure out who keeps editing it, though. Sorry - I'm just so damn determined to make sure this page is as lengthy and accurate as possible. However, if anyone wants to give the episode summaries a shot I'm all for it. Smokezilla

Tracy's Abilities

Do we in fact know that the freezing came from Tracy and was not a defense mechanism of the reporter. While this should probably be under character theories, it may also serve to decide how best to word Tracy's abilities. Andrei 02:22, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

  • It's pretty clear that it was Tracy. Freezing yourself to death wouldn't be a good defense mechanism. :) It's interesting that the reporter referred to her as an "ice queen", too. How appropriate. (Admin 02:24, 23 September 2008 (EDT))
    • Have to agree with Admin here, Andrei. "Ice queen" and freezing seem to go hand in hand, wouldn't you say? Smokezilla
      • I agree Tracy has freezing as an ability.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:32, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
    • The wife and I discussed this with several options. One of which being that the man froze himself, shattered, and then melts and reconstitutes. Example: | Senator Kelly in X-Men The reason I hazard that was the long camera shot on the ice dripping down the drain. Now again, a theory and probably best on the theory page. Andrei 02:41, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
      • I'm pretty sure that since Tracy's hand glowed blue that means the freezing spread from her to the reporter. --Piemanmoo 02:53, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
        • Her hand was definitely the same color as Sylar's when he used his freezing power on-screen. The only way it could get more blatant is if she actually said, "I froze him," and then freezes something else. --PeterDawson 13:21, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
          • I have to disagree. Watch the scene again, as I just did. He turns into ice, she doesn't freeze him. He gets turned a translucent blue gray (which would not happen if he were frozen, but rather if he were turned into ice) and then the camera moves to show the pieces on the ground, melting and trailing running clear water into the drain. There are no fragments of bone or cloth or metal (such as the video player) unfreezing, and in particular no blood, which is what you would see if you melted a chunks of a frozen person. It would run red and other colours, not clear. So what we saw, was more like Bob's power than freezing. If you want to speculate it was like a freezing power, that runs contrary to what we saw. Now I will admit I do have a speculation that her power is far more interesting, that she simply has whatever power her victim names, thus for the reporter only she had the power to turn him into ice, but there is as yet no evidence for that speculation.--Bradtem 02:00, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
            • When he first starts to break apart before shattering you can see the red of his blood vessels. I thought after he shattered you saw blood running down the drain, but I'm not entirely positive. In any event it's certainly not beyond the realm of belief that the ability is like Bob's. I don't see any speculation in calling it freezing... rather I do consider it speculative to say that it's a new ability akin to Bob's. (Admin 02:09, 25 September 2008 (EDT))
              • We only have what we see on screen, and they make a point of showing us the ice melting, which is presumably to tell us there will be no body for the police to find, but also to show that the water is clear. Has to be that way, if she just froze him, what would be left would be a pile of freezer burned flesh, blood everywhere, various chunks of bone and fragments of cloth, watch, video player. I realize that it is asking a lot from Heroes to have them realize that frozen bone would not shatter like that and would not melt, so it could be just badly done freezing, but for now replay the scene and document what we actually see, which is that his body is turned to ice, and the melt runs clear, not bloody. The only strange part is that when he shatters (which is even before he falls) they show a black rather than red inside, but the chunks on the ground are white. I called it speculation to label it the type of freezing we have seen before, because the results are very different. I agree it's also speculation to say it's like Bob, for now one should just document what we see and not leap to either conclusion--Bradtem 02:48, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
            • The blue color can come from discoloration on the skin. And if Tracy froze him solid enough, the blood may still be frozen and not able to flow. The liquid, which shows some condensation of fog around the area could be liquid atmosphere.Dracomaster4 15:15, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
              • You can't be serious. Liquid atmosphere running down the drains? He cracked and split like a big piece of ice, not like an extremely frozen chunk of meat wrapped in cloth. Take a leg of lamb and put it in liquid nitrogen, even below glass transition. You'll get a weapon you can beat people with, not something that shatters under its own weight. I'm not saying the writers on Heroes will get the science right, they often don't, but I think a wiki should document what we actually see until informed otherwise.--Bradtem 16:28, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
            • I've use liquid nitrogen before, and frozen ground meat. When I dropped it on the floor, it shattered like ice. Same happened to a peach, and a hot dog. Extreme cold completely changes chemical behavior, and can also cause rubber to shatter like glass. Dracomaster4 15:22, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
                • You may want to submit this as a question to CBR for one of their upcoming Behind the Eclipse sessions with Joe and Aron. That might be the best way to get clarification. Personally I think it's a simple case of freezing and the way they manufactured the effect was simply how they chose to represent it. See what Joe and Aron say, though. (Admin 16:47, 25 September 2008 (EDT))
                  • Oh, I expect we'll see more info eventually, as well as the answer to what her relationship to J/N is and more. My personal guess is we'll never see the ice queen power again, because her power derives from what somebody says to her or thinks about her. After all, turning people to ice, or freezing them, is a pretty boring power, not an appropriate power for one of the regular characters. But I expect the answer sooner or later, I just feel the wiki should not presume it's freezing because what we see -- writing mistake or other reason -- is transformation into ice.--Bradtem 23:05, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

Different type of ability

  • While even I somewhat doubt this, what if Tracy's ability isn't that of freezing but instead something in her reacted to the reporter's comments of calling her the "Ice Queen", as if by him saying that, her ability was to make his remark literal. If you think about it, she only froze him after he called her that name, and her reaction clearly showed that she only discovered that ability at that moment. Imagine if later on, someone says she's acting "all fired up" and then suddenly she has pyrokinesis? Just a thought from a different point of view... - FlyingMan 03:21, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
    • Yes, that's what I say in the section above this. When I added it to the fan theories page, one of the monitors reverted it out without comment, in spite of the rule that you don't delete fan theories for not liking them. So I smell a conspiracy to hide her power.  :-)--Bradtem 03:28, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
      • I didn't realize you had mentioned that already! Maybe we are onto something! - FlyingMan 03:30, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
  • By the way, now that I think about it, it's obvious that Tracy doesn't have an ability, it was the reporter. However, the reporter lost the manual for his powers and doesn't really know how to control them, so he accidentally turned himself to ice.  :-) --Bradtem 16:47, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
    • If only Bob had made the same mistake, someone would be very very right right now! (Admin 16:50, 26 September 2008 (EDT))

Family?

  • In one of the Wireless GNs there is a microbiologist by the name of Henry Strauss. Dracomaster4 15:18, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
    • Perhaps, but my theory is that it's a different kind of relation.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:24, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
    • Maybe MiamiVolts is right about what he said. During the episode One of Us, One of Them, Dr. Zimmerman said that he created her. When he answered the door, also, it sounded like he said Barb, and began talking about "the one who lived in beverly hills". So maybe they are family just clones of the same person.--Heroics

Explosion?

Okay I get that Tracy may have frozen the reporter but why did he then explode aswell. When we've seen Sylar freeze someone they are simply frozen, they don't then shatter.

  • I don't know if this helps, but in a deleted scene from One Giant Leap, a cop was frozen and his arm shattered similar to how the reporter froze and shattered. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:27, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
  • Depending on how much she froze her, the reporter could have went through thermal shock. Being that this is most likely the first time she used her power, and that she was in stress, she could have frozen him so much, that the heat from the air cause the expansion on the outside faster than the inside, thus he shattered. Same thing happens if you use an ice cube. Put it in ice water, and it will sit there, but put it in hot water and it will explode. When Sylar froze Mr. Walker, he bay have only froze him a little bit being that he had mastered control of the power by then. Hope this helps. Dracomaster4 15:18, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
  • Or, even simpler: Tracy was so shocked at what she was doing that she may have been trembling or jerked a little. Those vibrations shattered the corpse. --SacValleyDweller (talk)
  • This is silly. Neither of these would cause a frozen human to shatter spontaneously, or would they shatter like this even on hitting the ground. When Sylar froze the guard, they had just his arm shatter from hitting the ground, and even that is silly. Ever whacked a frozen leg of meat, even one frozen to dry ice or liquid nitrogen? It does not shatter. Shattering is for pure ice, or for other things with no internal structure to keep them together, like flowers and lightweight fruits. Have a liquid nitrogen party sometime. It's fun to shatter the plants but meat with bone doesn't shatter, and cloth like the clothing these people were wearing doesn't shatter, not when you whack it on the ground, certainly not from standing there. The following explanations make some sense:
    • The writers have no idea how this works, and/or just wanted a cool effect. Tracy used a freezing power.
    • Tracy used a power that turns things into ice, and the writers had it shatter spontaneously (which still takes a lot of work -- large ice sculptures don't shatter just by standing there) so they could have a cool effect.
    • Exposing ice of any coldness to air won't make it explode. Hot water has orders of magnitude more heating ability than outdoor air.
    • "Heat from the air" doesn't cause expansion. As ice melts, it contracts. It is freezing that makes it expand. This expansion takes place at the moment of freezing, not after.
    • Tracy's power, whatever it is, caused both the conversion to ice/freezing, and the shattering, and the power somehow has the ability to make bone, metal and cloth shatter after freezing.--Bradtem 19:57, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Pearl necklace

Oh, the endless jokes I can make. Her and that handy-dandy pearl necklace. --Bob (talk) 22:26, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Consultant

Is Tracy's one year as a consultant for Pinehearst enough to put her in Category:Pinehearst Company? I think the info should go on her infobox, but I'm in doubt whether she should be in the category, considering she's no longer part of Pinehearst. Intuitive Empath 14:31, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Im sorry but Im still so confused...

OK, let me know if I have this right because I'm really not sure... Is this how it all went down? Nikki was born to unknown parents along with her two sisters Tracy and Barbra. The three of them were tested on as children and given abilities, super strength (Nikki), freezing (Tracy), and an unknown ability (Barbra). The three of them were adopted out, Nikki to Hal, Tracy to some family in Beverly Hills, and Barbra to an unknown family (she most likely is involved with Dr. Zimmerman and the German because we were shown a picture of them together.) When Nikki was living with her adoptive father Hal, he either adopted another daughter or had one with is wife who they named Jessica. Hal later killed Jessica when he was drunk or something because he was abusive. Later in life Nikki took on the alter ego Jessica as a way to cope with her already stressful life. Her powers first manifested through the Jessica personality. Gina isn't based off a person Nikki knew in her life, just another personallity her mind made up. OK, I think I may have it, or I may be way off. Can someone please let me know.--Cairoi 13:05, 6 December 2008 (EST)

  • Sounds good to me. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 13:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)
    • Yeah, you're on the right track, as far as the least speculative view of it is concerned. My own thought is that the Company must have been involved in taking a memory engram of Jessica and implanting it into Niki somehow as a distinct personality cause Jessica appeared to know things about Linderman and the Company and cause whenever Jessica was actively controlling Niki's body, the Symbol tattoo would appear. The tattoo did not appear when Niki's other personality, Gina, was in control.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:19, 6 December 2008 (EST)
      • I'm not sure about the tatto, but Bob explained how Jessica came to be: sometimes when powers manifest it causes a fracture of the mind. That happened with Niki. Note that Jessica first seemed to manifest in Six Months Ago during the confrontation when Hal. It can be assumed Niki got her super-strength then and that's when Jessica first manifested.
      • Yeah I never understood the tattoo, I always just figured they were trying to be artistic, trying to put the symbol in the show more, even thought it didn't make any seance. I like your idea better. Also, that furthers the reason why I think the personality Jessica and the actual little sister Jessica should have separate pages on heroes wiki.--Cairoi 13:26, 6 December 2008 (EST)

Significant Other is speculative

What evidence is there that Nathan and Tracy were "Significant others". There isn't any.

Other than the fact that they made out and had sex? I guess there isn't really any. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 08:16, 19 December 2008 (EST)
  • In today's world, that in no way shape or form means they're significant others. I'm almost positive this discussion has been had in the past.--Riddler 08:17, 19 December 2008 (EST)
    • And seeing as how Nathan is still listed under "Significant others," I suppose it does mean that they were in a relationship. Though I think he should be "formerly" now, but I'm not sure. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 08:20, 19 December 2008 (EST)
      • Found it. Though it wasn't discussed much, the significant other thing was taken out of her profile.--Riddler 08:25, 19 December 2008 (EST)
        • I acknowledge that their relations could have only equated to a one-night stand, but I'm pretty sure they shared an emotional relationship as well. The night they first kissed; it wasn't all physical. And it's not like Nathan just flew away in the morning; they stayed together. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 08:28, 19 December 2008 (EST)
          • I dunno. Linderman stuck around and offered to hike. ;]. Besides, I think Tracy is more self-centered. Sure she's trying to get Nathan into office, but I'm pretty sure it's at her own benefit. She did say "We're not together" pretty apathetically.--Riddler 08:32, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Exactly, it seems she even stated they had no relationship.

            • Even Malden is speculative. Sure, they had sex, but it seemed they had no emotional attachment at all. "You don't pay me for the sex" makes it sound like she's doing it to get what she wants, and she did go to Nathan without much of a problem.--Riddler 09:10, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Images

Is it really necessary to have that many images in her article? Same thing with Niki's article. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:03, 20 December 2008 (EST)

Niki/Jessica/Gina

When listing Niki as Tracy's sister, there's no need to list all of her personalities. We don't need to list aliases, we don't need to list multiple personalities, we don't need all that extra stuff on there. It's understandable why one would want to do that, but it's unnecessary. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:07, 29 December 2008 (EST)

haha Nbc doesn't even know their own show!

Look at the product description. http://www.nbcuniversalstore.com/detail.php?p=71390 They can't be serious!--Cairoi 15:41, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

  • If that was written before Season Three started, then I completely understand NBC's desire to not spoil anything. Calling the new character another multiple personality is the surest bet to not spoil too much. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:43, 14 March 2009 (EDT)
    • If you contact them about it or write a review, they'll likely fix it. There's no reason to keep it that way anymore.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:54, 14 March 2009 (EDT)
      • I srsly doubt they would care, lol, i mean its a really minor error --Lolwut

Dead or not

What happened to Tracy. She shattered and was still able to blink? Usually when people shatter, they die. like Knox. Someone please explain.--Catalyst 11:57, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

  • I think she's dead. That may have just been dramatic effect. If she hadn't been shattered she may have been able to survive, but I doubt she can completly reform herself.--WarGrowlmon18 12:15, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
    • Her Ice head winked, that's proof enough for me to think that she can come back to life somehow. Until she's confirmed dead (we see a flesh corpse) she aint dead. --SacValleyDweller (talk) 12:31, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
      • I agree, I think she will melt and be able to reform like Water mimicry after all they are more or less the same except Tract makes things freeze and her power has developed a lot since she first used it. She is not dead until its confirmed :) --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 15:01, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

  • This is confusing because if you look carefully in the scene where she blinks, a teardrop can be seen flowing from her eye.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 15:20, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

Tracy is alive. Its been confirmed that Ali is not going anywhere plus its been spoiled her death is faked. Did anyone else see her Clana4life55

  • They confirmed a fake death, they didn't way which, Ali staying on the show could be to play Barbara. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:37, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
  • Tracy is the fake death. Three will die but one is faked. Daphene is dead, and the confirmed a real death for the finale which means Tracy is the fake death. plus she blinked which means shes alive. people need to stop listing her as deceased on other peoples profile. Clana4life55
    • BTE has confirmed that Tracy is dead Horrorman 18:33, 30 March 2009 (EST)
      • BTE said "Traci is dead. Unless you can come back from the dead after slushing into the sewers." To me, that's not a clear indication of her death but I don't mind us documenting it either way for now.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:03, 30 March 2009 (EDT)
      • Its been confirmed in the commentary by Bryan Fuller that tracy is ALIVE --Clana4life55 21:54, 30 March 2009 (EDT)
      • It's not spoiler if its been confirmed. BoomerDay 01:08, 10 April 2009 (EDT)

Who's Ryan???

One of the people when they edited the article wrote this: It was enough to make Ryan list her as dead, she was shown shattered. Who's Ryan???--WarGrowlmon18 21:08, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

  • Meet Ryan, someone partly responsible for this site, one of the 4 head-honchos--Anthony Gooch 21:27, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
    • I'm Ryan. I'm an administrator here, but I'm certainly not infallible. I didn't catch Tracy's weird eye blink/tear thing that she did after she was frozen, shot, and shattered. I guess she's presumed dead, not actually confirmed dead. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:28, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

Talk 16:30, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

          • Even if there is, as far as people who only watch the show, she was killed, it'd be like posting spoilers of next season right now. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:50, 25 March 2009 (EDT)
            • How do we know that she was killed at all? I don't think it's a fair assuption that a bullet/shattering would do the job, especially with the wink at the end. --Stevehim 22:17, 26 March 2009 (EDT)
              • I agree that there's enough in-world evidence that Tracy is still alive, what with her very living wink and the fact that she is normally immune to her own power. The external sources (the commentary and interviews) are only confirmation of what is already a big question mark on her death. Ultimately, Tracy is not confirmed dead. She's really only presumed dead by other characters in Heroes, not necessarily by the audience--and that's where she differs from Canfield. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:49, 26 March 2009 (EDT)
                • It wasn't supposed to be a wink. One of the producers said that if they had shown her whole face, it would have been a blink. Come on, do you really think that Heroes would blatantly break the fourth wall like that? And why isn't her name in italics in the Season Three Characters box at the bottom of the page? Until we get conformation in the form of an episode, we have to assume that she is dead. JHero 11:49, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
                  • Bryan Fuller also said that Tracy will definitely be back on the show. And, JHero, i think that you are meant to assume that the character is alive until an episode disproves this. TracyStraussFan 14:18, 12 April 2009 (EDT)

Water Mimicry

Is it water mimicry? It certainly looks like it. --Gibbeynator 22:33, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

  • It seems as if her predicament has expanded her freezing into the aspects of water mimicry....or total H2O control--Anthony Gooch 22:38, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
    • I'm not sure what to make of this. The original manifestation of her ability was definitely freezing. However now, I'm not so sure. Is her ability still freezing? Did she manage to evolve it into complete water control? Or was it always water control, but freezing was the first and only aspect of it she demonstrated initially? -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 22:40, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
      • It seems like it mutated when she froze herself and then melted. --Gibbeynator 22:44, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Did she say her name was Tracy in An Invisible Thread? I was thinking that it might be Barbara, her sister...--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:51, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
          • They did say Tracy would be returning in a big way. And yeah, it could be Barbara. But I think it's really much more likely that it's Tracy. #1) Similarity in abilities, #2) Tracy has motive for going after Building 26 agents, #3) I do believe they said that the main villain for volume five would be a returning female character. Again, it could be Barbara. But at this moment, the evidence points to Tracy. -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 23:59, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
            • Yeah I thought "Number 4" added that personal vendetta touch to it....but who knows?--Anthony Gooch 00:01, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
            • Well, Tracy was never able to turn herself into water, and Barbara did have a motive for going after Building 26 agents. She was also a target.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:04, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
              • Where did it say that she was a target? -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 00:06, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
                • Check out the photos on the wall of targets after the airplane crash? If she's an identical triplet, the photo would be the same. Also, Building 26 had all of the Company's files. That means they knew about Barbara.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:23, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • I believe it is Tracy and her ability has evolved into water manipulation. She can turn herself into water, control water and manipulate the state of water. --Elemental Manipulator [ U | T | C ] - When in doubt, ask BTE 00:58, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Yeah, it's just a good theory for now, unless we get BTE to confirm it for us. As far as we have seen, this sister can only control the watery liquid she becomes. I still like my theory that it's Barbara better, though.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:02, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Let's just add water mimicry to avoid speculation, because we did the same for Matt when he showed Precognition, even though it could simply be an aspect of his original ability. - BlackWidower 01:03, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • But we don't know yet if it's Tracy's or Barbara's ability that we witnessed tonight. Also, if it's Tracy, her ability would need to be water manipulation to encompass altering the state of matter it's in.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:06, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Okay, maybe it is Barbara, but I like to think of Occam's Razor, let's not say a new character is introduced until we are sure. Plus we already know what Tracy's motive is, not so for Barbara. Finally, I don't see why a new ability is necessary, we can just tack on a pre-existing ability, nothing wrong with that, it has been done before with Matt Parkman. - BlackWidower 01:24, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Barbara has already been mentioned and shown in a photo with Dr. Zimmermann and the German. So she isn't a new character, we just don't know what her power is yet.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:31, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • For what it's worth, I don't think BTE can be 100% trusted...they told us that Tracy wouldn't be coming back, Ali Larter informed us of something different.--Anthony Gooch 01:10, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
        • When did they say Tracy wouldn't be coming back? If they did say that recently, it might be okay to assume that it's Barbara for now (even though I would prefer a confirmation in next week's BTE).--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:16, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Ahh, I can see that our summer is going to be full of Tracy/Barbara and Sylar/Nathan talks lol. I do believe they said it in the interview after Cold Snap aired...it may have been just dry humor, but I believe they said something like "Tracy is dead unless slush can come back out of sewer water." vs. what Ali Larter said (caution: spoilers!)...plus I think it would be better if Barbara's ability was in no way related to either sister than just one. Water manipulation and Freezing are closely tied leaving enhanced strength out. You see what I'm saying? Sorry if this sounds like I'm trying to pick a fight b/c I'm not.--Anthony Gooch 01:45, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
            • Ok, no ill intentions perceived. That said, nothing is conclusive. I think we might need to create "Unknown triplet" and "Unknown triplet's ability" pages for now. At least until we get some kind of clarification from the credits, BTE, or the piece where cast/crew talk while watching the episode.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:55, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
              • http://heroesspoilers-odi.blogspot.com/2009/04/fuller-confirms-what-changed-and-whats.html Bryan Fuller confirmed Tracy returns. It's Tracyn not Barbara. --Powermimic 02:00, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
                • Bryan didn't say Tracy would be returning in the finale, just that she would be returning. So both Bryan and the BTE crew could be correct, and this could be Barbara with Tracy also to return next year. However, I think it's better to be safe here and not make an assumption on who it is.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:19, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
                • MV, you mean create these pages?(Barbara, water mimicry)--Anthony Gooch 02:10, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
                  • No. Since we don't know if it was Tracy or Barbara in An Invisible Thread, we would need a new page for the character history and a new page for the ability exhibited. If it's Tracy, the ability exhibited would be water manipulation to account for the change of associated matter (ice to water). If it's Barbara, it would be water mimicry like Elisa from the Heroes: Destiny webisodes.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:19, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
                    • Mmm...I say we don't give her a page, she managed just fine last summer when we were introduced to the woman from Angela's dream. I think the only time we talked about her was in discussion boards and theories...never given a dedicated page.--Anthony Gooch 02:27, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
                      • That was a dream. This person actually appeared in the episode, and will need to go into the episode appearances.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:40, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
                        • Even if it was a dream, we still counted it as Tracy, even in the episode appearances. All the evidence seems to point at Tracy right now. --Radicell 08:46, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

I think the ability is Water Mimicry since the guy from the graphic novel threw water at an agent and turned to water. Their is a Barbara in the iStory with water based ability which could be the sister Barbara but that is a theroy than anything else. I think we should make a page since it was in an episode though i think it is Tracy than Barbara. - xnikix

  • It's either water mimicry or another ability of which water mimicry is a byproduct... The thing we are not sure about is whether it's Tracy or not. -- Altes 06:36, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • There's been enough talk from the producers to confirm that it's Tracy, that should be enough. --Gibbeynator 07:00, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Not to mention that it was stated that there are no plans for Barbara to appear at all. And if there is still opposition, it's more speculation to say that is isn't Tracy than saying it is. -- Cael 08:06, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

Do we have to have a vote to determine whether or not it's Tracy before we can vote to change her power to water mimicry? --Gibbeynator 09:39, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

  • We have one producer who suggests Tracy is coming back, and BTE that says she isn't. I think it's not really clear yet which is right. I'm going to check out the commentaries later today. Hopefully that will help us. And yes, there is a Barbara in The Agent with a water-related power and I too am thinking that it might be a bit more than just coincidence.--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:37, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • What on earth is all the debate about? Ali Larter said herself that we would 'see Tracy Strauss' in the finale, and mentioned 'new powers' linked to water. There's so much confirmation out there that it's Tracy that I can't see why people are debating if it is Barbara or Tracy. As for the BTE thing, what they actually said was Tracy is dead, unless there's a way to come back from slushing into the sewers, which must be the case. Anyway, if her ability is changed, I dont think it should be changed to 'water mimicry', after all, she is able to freeze things as well, and by the looks of things, she can control the water (the way she drowned the guy).
  • Furthermore, cast commentary confirms that it is Tracy. Case closed.
    • The trouble is all of those things are technically spoilers, including the Cast Commentary for Cold Snap, which are not good sources, especially since they conflict. Donald Essex went through the sewers, and is still presumed dead, and had water mimicry as an ability. I don't see this as any different. Also, you should read this chapter of The Agent iStory where a character named Barbara almost drowns Rachel and Janey with her ability. Sound familiar? P.S. Please sign your comments.--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:23, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • I don't see your point - surely this could be simply a coincidence. Also, how is the commentary from the episode (which says 'here is a character we haven't seen since 20' and 'she was shattered last time'), as well as Ali Larter saying herself that she would be back as Tracy with an ability related to water not sufficient proof for you? --Joe120560 12:32, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

Why would Babara who has (for all we know) no knowledge of Tracy kill the guards that kept Tracy prisoner, isn't it extremly more likely that Tracy's power has simply developped to water manipulation and is now seeking revenge after suviving being shot (she winked remember) --posted by Laughingdevilboy Talk 12:41, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Barbara and the other circus characters from The Agent are a little upset over Linda/Leona's death. That they would seek out Building 26 agents wouldn't surprise me. Also, it's possible Barbara or someone else was the person that did the wink in Episode 320, and visited Agent Harper's apartment. And though all that is definitely speculation, now that I've had a chance to hear the commentary, and confirm that it's a character that appeared before, I think it would be more speculative to say it's Barbara. I still think we're taking a logical leap and assuming it's Tracy, but I'm no longer opposed to doing so.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:16, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Ali did say on Jimmy Fallon that Tracy would be back in the finale with water powers. --Action Figure 12:43, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Also on the new GN it showed the main characters on the first page, including Tracy freezing a mirror, coincidence I think not.--posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 12:50, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Furthermore TV guide said a character would make a 'splashy return'. 'return' = could only be Tracy. --Joe120560 12:51, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Its so obviously Tracy I don't see what we're even argueing about, we have more confirmation, the only thing not changing it right now is some hunches based on obscure facts. BTE has lied or been obscure before, combinations of actors and others don't create the same intended confusion. BTE said that Mr.Muggles could be theone lowering crime rates, but that doesn't mean its true! Its Tracy, and its water mimircy until proved otherwise, she evenhas the same acent, which is different o Jessicas and Niki's.--Fr0z3nB0nes 15:22, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Someone explain to me what is wrong with adding water mimicry to freezing! Why do we need to create a new ability!? - BlackWidower 15:25, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Tracy's ability needs to remain freezing for now, since that's what the assignment tracker calls it. The assignment tracker rules above all since it's being considered a trusted source for the show. That's not my choice. Sorry. You can read the discussion at Help talk:Naming conventions--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:16, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Did Matt Parkman's Assignment Tracker change when he gained Precognition? - BlackWidower 18:02, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Not that I know of, but then we didn't rename his ability from "telepathy" when his ability grew so that would be a moot point, anyways.--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:21, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

The recap for Invisible Thread lists "Tracy Strauss" as the person. But even if we're not sure, shouldn't "unidentified woman" be listed under Water Mimicry? Or should Freezing be modified to indicate the ability to transform into water as well, since the assignment tracker identifies her power as Freezing?--Gadfly 17:05, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

  • There's a Note under Water Mimicry that addresses the issue. At this point, assigning the ability to any character is premature. --Ted C 17:09, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Can someone explain to me why Tracy's section on Freezing hasn't be changed?--IotV 18:26, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Cause there isn't consensus that it was Tracy at the end of An Invisible Thread.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:43, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
        • IMO, Tracy has returned. Her power was very close to that of Water Mimicry, but it has been confirmed that Ali would return "more powerful than ever." On top of that, Tracy melted into the storm drain when she was shot. Before that, she blinked, which was confirmed to be a sign that she was not dead. Since she was still "alive" when she was shattered, it is safe (imo) to assume that her ability either changed (I hope not) or evolved to include Water Mimicry/Manipulation. Tracy was also confirmed to be in the season finale, which she "was." Another thing: why would Barbara want to kill former agents of Building 26? Tracy had a personal vendetta against the organization (for "killing" her and trying to capture Micah). I also find it hard to believe that Barbara would have such a similar ability to Tracy's; it just would be redundant of the writers to give Water Manipulation to Tracy's sister imo. I think, with that amount of mostly concrete evidence supporting Tracy's return, we/some of us can assume that she was the character that killed #4. Dean 21:08, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

The first thing that came to mind when I saw the AMAZING ACTION SCENE was that it was Tracy who somehow managed to get herself together again since Cold Snap. But then I logged on here and saw the name of Barbara and it made me think again .. It made me come up with this. Theory A What if Barbara is the one who has Water Mimicry and is the one who managed to but Tracy back together after Cold Snap And is now working with her. Theory B Tracy managed to expand her ability, evolving, getting stronger. Like somebody said in a post above, getting more control over Water and Freezing being the first aspect of the ability she learned. This makes sense. I hope that in Season 4 they also put a focus on a new phenomenon. Abilities getting stronger, growing, evolving. We have already seen 1 upgrade and some downgrades of abilities, now it's time for some natural (not Ando-enduced) ability upgrades. We saw Peter getting a downgrade from his Empathic mimicry, plus we already saw Matt Parkman get an upgrade with his ability. I think it would be great to explain/explore that aspect of abilities furture, starting with Tracy. DarthYotho 11:52, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

  • A lot of powers have had great progressions, and some of them don't even make logical sense. They have, in fact, gone into what others would consider distinct powers, but are directly related. (Matt Parkman with telepathy and then suggestion/mind control.) Tracy's total ability may be that she can mimic and control water in it's various states. It is not unrealistic to consider this a valid progression of her freezing ability. Nikihasmyheart 7:00, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
  • She is Tracy and has got the Water mimicry.As Bryan Fuller confirmed, Barbara didn't come yet.redeye 20:25, 06 May 2009 (EDT)
    • Brian only confirmed her being Tracy, he said nothing about whether it was a new ability or an new aspect of the same ability. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:30, 6 May 2009 (EDT)

Season 4 baddie.

Spoilers suggests that Tracy takes on the role of the season's female baddie, but isn't Season 4 supposed to be Redemption. And the only person we saw her killed was Harper, who was technically one of those doing harm to evolved humans. Isn't it kind of heroic instead? -Shlakime

  • She used to be a victim in "Fugitives", so she's probably being established as some sort of baddie before she's set on the road to redemption... Murdering one of her captors, most like more isn't quite the classical heroic deed.
  • Yeah, I can see why they would want to stop her if she was just going around killing former agents. It's really not all that heroic.--Laudo 09:32, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • It's an "Adam Monroe" style quest for vengence, hunting down those who have wronged her. Garthak 12:12, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

Special pages > Popular pages

This doesn't have much to do with anything but is the popular pages views count thing true? Cause it says Tracy has 22 page views, although given this talk page, it's clearly much more... TracyStraussFan 16:02, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Tracy's page isn't the same as Tracy's talk page.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:21, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Yeah i know that, but it also says that this talk page has 0 views, which is clearly incorrect. TracyStraussFan 14:42, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Well, the popular pages special page ignores talk pages by design.--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:30, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Tracy or Barbara

Is it for certain that at the end of the episode An Invisible Thread, was Tracy? Because I saw it on the episode page. Because it seemed like it would be barabara-- Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:56, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

You know, I thought it was Barbara too, but I think someone has a source for it being Tracy. Not to mention that the writers made a point out of showing Tracy going down the drain as water, so maybe her Freezing has some WEIRD side-effects. Whatev. Tracy is more likely to want to kill off Building 26 agents. --(P)uerto (R)ican (K)nock(O)ut 18:14, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

PROOF it was Tracy

Miami, you seem to be the champion for it not being Tracy, despite having only ONE resource that only KIND OF backs it up. Well how about something from the horse's mouth? Ali on Fallon. The end. Let's edit these pages people! --Action Figure 18:27, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Btw, this is proof despite it being obvious in show that it was Tracy. I mean, I cant believe its an argument. Nothing else makes sense. --Action Figure 18:29, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • I agree. There shouldn't be a debate about this. Every source says it's Tracy. For the assignment tracker argument the show is the main cannon source and the tracker is below that. The show made this clear cut, and we're just making it into a twilight zone debate. --OutbackZack 18:58, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • I dont know if this can be counted but ODI posted on the spoiler page pictures of Tracy's return, using screencaps from redemption. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 19:14, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Sorry, Ali isn't the horse's mouth, so to speak. That would be Tim Kring, as he's responsible for writing the episode. Spoiler teasers from the actors AND writers have not always been reliable, as things are often edited and altered in the editing room that they don't know about. In the end, we document what is presented to us on the show, which in this case leaves it open as to whom it is. We have previously used spoilers to get names for minor characters, but Tracy is a major character in the show so a reveal as to whether or not it is her IS a spoiler just as much as Nathan's assassin being Future Peter was.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:39, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Also, I've never said that I know that it isn't Tracy; just that I don't think we know 100% for sure that it is so we shouldn't speculate in the summaries. All this spoiler information is great, but it belongs in the spoiler talk, imho.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:42, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • It isnt a spoiler! The episode has aired, and it was tracy! Every single FORMER spoiler on it says so! They've even said there is NO plan for Barbara! Come on! The M.O., the power, the melting down a drain then coming out a sink, the wink, the fact that she's naked (she melted out of her clothes assumedly, other water mimickers can bring their clothing), the revenge, the fact that it WASN'T stated it was Barbara (as if they wouldnt point that out if they were bringing in a random character who looked like tracy with the motives of tracy), and the writers, Tim Kring, Bryan Fuller (who is currently championing the Tracy character), AND ALI LARTER have all made it TRACY! I don't think it could be more obvious if they put a "Hi! My name is Tracy!" on her still reforming butt. I mean, we know there are shapeshifters in the heroes universe, should we be this careful with every character everytime we see them? --Action Figure 21:15, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • No, but this is different situation as the same actress is confirmed in the show to be playing two parts of identical appearance. The episode aired and the spoilers were not confirmed by the episode. Interview information, whether spoilerish or not, is supplemental to the story information, and needs to be treated as such.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:41, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

More than one power?

Her current ability is Freezing, but that ability doesn't exactly explain how she now seems to be a water mimic. So now I think it's safe to say her ability has evolved into two abilities, or she has an overall ability to control every aspect of water. PS. If you think water has nothing to do with freezing... it does. She uses the moister in the air to freeze things. --OutbackZack 18:42, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Okay ignore this. I just NOW noticed the above topic. --OutbackZack 18:47, 28 April 2009 (EDT)