Episode talk:Dual

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Episode Updates Episode article: ___ Episode screencap _X_ Monologue ___ Summary ___ Story Development _X_ Synopsis _X_ Quotes Update/add other articles: ___ Episode redirect: Dual ___ Check that links from previous episode work ___ Update Currentep ___ Update Portal:Episodes ___ Update Template:Season3 ___ Update Template:Ep ___ Update Season Three ___ New interviews and videos ___ Add Heroes Interactive:Dual ___ Episode commentaries ___ Add Category:Images from Dual ___ Update Template:Interviews with latest CBR ___ Update Interviews with CBR and Beeman's Blog ___ Update template:imagenav ___ Update template:image-screenshot ___ Update ratings ___ Add Hulu link to see also and to main page blurb Update Main Page: ___ template:aotw and archive ___ Next on Heroes ___ Template:Index ___ Update songs ___ Archive Spoiler:Dual (change "aired=")

Character Updates Update Main Character pages ___ Peter ___ Nathan ___ Claire ___ Matt ___ Hiro ___ Mohinder ___ Noah ___ Sylar ___ Ando ___ Tracy ___ Angela Update character-related pages ___ Groups ___ Appearances ___ Connections

Character/Reference/Powers Updates Update other character pages as needed ___ Update Portal:Minor Characters as appropriate _X_ Echo _X_ Doyle _X_ Danny Pine _X_ Meredith _X_ Knox _X_ Arthur _X_ Flint _X_ Kaito _X_ Scott Add new character pages as needed: _X_ The President ___ Update Portal:Guest Cast as appropriate ___ (list actors who appear here) Add new actor pages as needed: ___ Michael Dorn "Despoil" new characters and actors who already have articles: Be sure to add appropriate non-spoiler categories! ___ (list characters and actors that need to be "despoiled") ___ despoil spoiler images, update source, etc. Add references to appropriate recurring themes: ___ (list themes referenced here) Add examples of Powers used: Note: if an "examples" page exists, that's where examples should be added.

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New Images Get screencaps: ___ Episode title (650x365) ___ Episode lead image (300x169) New characters (200x250): ___ (list new characters) New groups (450x350) ___ (list new groups) New Events/Items/Things/etc. (450x350) ___ (list new articles) New locations (450x350) ___ (list new articles) New places (450x350) ___ (list new articles) All powers used (450x350) ___ Examples of flight ___ Ability supercharger ___ Examples of space-time manipulation ___ Examples of telepathy ___ Examples of super speed ___ Examples of enhanced strength ___ Examples of empathic mimicry ___ Examples of freezing ___ Examples of Mohinder's ability ___ Examples of pyrokinesis ___ Examples of rapid cell regeneration ___ Examples of telekinesis ___ Lie detection ___ Metal mimicry ___ Puppet master All Symbol appearances (450x350) ___ Flint's scar New paintings (full size) ___ (list new paintings) New prophecies/realizations (300x200) ___ (list new/fulfilled prophecies)

Episode name

Was this changed to 'Duality' at some point? Imdb lists it as 'War,' and I could've sworn a comment in a BTE interview did as well. --Stevehim 17:45, 30 November 2008 (EST)

• Apparently it was; I remember seeing the move in the recent changes at one point... I believe it was RGS who made the move, you could ask him why it was changed. I would like to know why myself. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 17:48, 30 November 2008 (EST)
  • As per [the official press release] --Pierre 17:55, 30 November 2008 (EST)
  • Josh made the move. NBC's information is usually more accurate than IMDb, which is essentially a fan-contributed resource, somewhat like Heroes Wiki, but with tighter restrictions and administration. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:17, 30 November 2008 (EST)
    • Agreed. I was more using it as a backup source to the BTE interview, but it looks like they decided to change it, for whatever reason. --Stevehim 18:21, 30 November 2008 (EST)
      • Aaand it was changed again. Any reason why they keep changing it? Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:46, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Aron Coleite and Joe Pokaski said on the 10th Wonder Podcast that they have seen four different titles for this: War, Duality, Dual, and Duel. - Tristan0709 17:19, 7 December 2008 (EST)

• I guess they decided on the fourth now. Next they'll be changing it to like, Mr. Muggles goes to War or something. - Tristan0709 18:22, 11 December 2008 (EST)
  • I'm still waiting on Duality Duel: Dual War.--Crazylicious 19:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)

It was "Dual" in the episode. Mike 22:08, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Final Scene

Barack Obama bitches!!! Ha! --Dumpster juice 22:02, 15 December 2008 (EST)

• Was it REALLY!? --DarkPhoenix 22:03, 15 December 2008 (EST)
  • Haha, I think it was meant to be. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:04, 15 December 2008 (EST)
• No, think of the timeline that Heroes is set in, plus the fact that he looked nothing like Obama (other than skin color). Bloodbath 22:06, 15 December 2008 (EST)
  • Since when has Heroes kept to the very letter of their own timeline? They've been inconsistent before. Even if the character isn't actually Barack Obama, I'm fairly certain he was a nod to our President-elect, considering the proximity of this episode's airing to the recent election. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:19, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • Probably a nod, yes, but I don't think it was supposed to be him...Bloodbath 22:25, 15 December 2008 (EST)
      • The episode was shot in October. Greg Beeman talks a bit about this on his blog. "Tim Kring really wanted to cast an African American in the role of the President, even though, at that time it was quite uncertain how the election would turn out." -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:29, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Apparently he was played by Michael Dorn - Tristan0709 talk 22:20, 15 December 2008 (EST)

• "Apparently"? Dorn has one of the most recognizable voices to sci-fi fans of the last twenty years - I knew the second I heard him talk. Awesome.--Mikebdoss 03:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Sylar

How do you think he survived this time? Bloodbath 22:07, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Ha, good question. Mike 22:08, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Once someone removes that glass outta his head, "he's Back"...again!--Anthony Gooch 22:53, 15 December 2008 (EST)

I think his body was destroyed in the explosion or fire that followed.--WarGrowlmon18 00:28, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Then his entire body will regenerate itself, like Peter and Claire after Costa Verde got nuked in the future. Revengeance 04:25, 16 December 2008 (EST)

My question is why doesn't Sylar seem interested in the abilities of others? I understand he can take their power without sawing their head off, but they never showed Sylar using or even attempting to steal the powers of Doyle, Pine and Meredith. All of their abilities are pretty powerful, you'd think Sylar would covet them as well. --Denali 10:00, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Well, there is a guy with a shotgun, experienced in hunting down special persons, after him. Sylar usually takes a few minutes to "study" someone he's stealing powers from. It's a dangerous window of vulnerability in a tricky situation. --Gadfly 10:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Peter and the formula?

Now in the article on Peter it says his ability is flight. Should it be listed as such, or should it be empathic mimicry, since we know that is his power? I know that it's disputable since we can't know if the formula gave him flight or simply restored his mimicry... Mike 22:10, 15 December 2008 (EST)

• Empathic mimicry is in his DNA, isn't it? I think we should say that he got it back and mimicked flight. I started a discussion about this on his talk page. Bloodbath 22:12, 15 December 2008 (EST)

• I agree. However, until he demonstrates another ability (i.e. Suresh's ability or Flint's ability), then he's only really shown flight. Jrrenola 22:15, 15 December 2008 (EST)
  • It just seems unlikely that he would be given flight of all abilities right then. Bloodbath 22:19, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • Well Nathan has flight, and he was in a proximity to Nathan. So either he only has flight or he has empathetic mimicry back.--onehardrocker 22:57, 15 December 2008 (EST)

• He seemed fully healed in the clearing at the end. --Fmorel90 22:25, 15 December 2008 (EST)
  • He was never sick. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:31, 16 December 2008 (EST)

I'd say he regained empathic mimickry at least and either regained all of his powers or mimicked Nathan's again and probably Flint's. I didn't think he was healed at the end, but I'm not sure.--WarGrowlmon18 00:27, 16 December 2008 (EST)

• It seems very likely that he has regained empathic mimicry--but that's not confirmed yet. Until he demonstrates another ability, or until we have confirmation on what ability he has, we should probably just list him as having flight. Explanatory (but non speculative) notes are fine. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:31, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • Regarding WarGrowlmon18's comment on Peter being fully healed at the end, this can be proven wrong as Peter still has his wound on his cheek after he landed with Nathan. --Xanderish 04:56, 16 December 2008 (EST)
• I agree, the ability is wired to the DNA. When Peter took the formula, is only makes sense that he got back Empathic Mimicry (only his original power). Since he was in promixity to Nathan, he used flight. Even if he absorbed Flints ability, there was no need to use it at that time. Other than that, there is no way to tell since he didn't exhibit any other powers. However, I believe this is what happened. --Denali 09:56, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • Actually, I think that if it's really EM he got back, he might have gotten all abilities back, mimicked and exposed and here's why: we know Sylar kept telekinesis after the Shanti virus because of the emotional tool taking the power took on him. Peter's ability is to get others' abilities via emotion as well, so it would make sense if all the abilities he had before were restored as well, Mohinder said back in season one that Peter's DNA constantly shifts to acquire new abilities, so if the formula kickstarts the EM DNA, it could possibly restart acquired&exposed DNA as well. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:22, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Flint's scar

Is it just me, or was Flint's scar in the shape of the symbol? Bloodbath 22:16, 15 December 2008 (EST)

• Yep I saw that too. - Mike N. 22:17, 15 December 2008 (EST)
  • I kept thinking the same thing. An HD screen cap would be nice to see. --Iloveguarana 01:42, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Deaths: Confirmable and non-

Let's see... Knox is dead... Doyle? Flint? Meredith? Sylar? (doubt Sylar - he'll get out somehow)... Opinions? Mike 22:22, 15 December 2008 (EST)

• Doyle isn't dead. He could have gotten up and stumbled out of Primatech. It's not like he got his throat slashed or arm ripped off. Meredith has "exploded" before. She may have survived. Sylar is dead until a shard of glass is removed probably by an autopsy person like Claire and a tree branch...and you forgot Pine and Echo. -- Cael 22:25, 15 December 2008 (EST)
  • You can't say for certain that Doyle isn't dead. Especially considering that he was left in visibly bad shape after Sylar messed with him. And... not to mention the building kind of... exploded... and fell on him... Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:27, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • But we can't say he definitely is dead. The building didn't instantaneously explode right after that happened. Time passed and he could have recuperated enough to stumble out. Besides things I won't mention, a Niki situation would have to occur for him to be dead, and even then we would have to wait. -- Cael 22:34, 15 December 2008 (EST)
      • I don't think anyone ever said he definitely was dead... Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:35, 15 December 2008 (EST)
        • Doyle, Flint, Meredith, maybe even Pine (was he seen, aside from his arm?) all could have escaped in the magical way Mohinder did. I'm not positive there wasn't some small time delay (a few minutes) that the editing left out (where Claire raced to go to Meredith). I thought for sure Flint killed Mohinder, but he was fine and dandy a little bit later (did his power return in the car, or was that just visual poetry?).--Tim Thomason 22:40, 15 December 2008 (EST)

I'd say Flint, Merideth and Sylar are all dead. I think one of the spoliers for the episode said that one of Claire's parents were gonna die so that pretty much confirms that. Flint was probably still in the building when it exploded although no guarentee of that and as for Sylar, his body was probably immolated or destroyed in the explosion and I'm pretty sure that it has been said that an injury that particular spot is final. I think Peter's body automaticly mimicked Claire's power again and it saved him and Claire survived due to it being before the writters wrote that fact in.--WarGrowlmon18 00:23, 16 December 2008 (EST)

• Note that earlier in the episode, Flint said he "can't burn" and didn't seem to have any concern that he might be harmed as he prepared to burn Pinehearst down around him. Whether he could survive the massive explosion that we see, which is concussion as well as heat, remains to be seen. Whether Meredith has similar immunity to flames is unknown. --Gadfly 01:55, 16 December 2008 (EST)
• And it's pretty unlikely Sylar is dead, if they're going to bring in Sylar's father in the next chapter. --Gadfly 02:36, 16 December 2008 (EST)

So, how do we address all of this? It seems the only deaths we can confirm for the moment are: Scott, Knox, Sylar, Danny Pine and Echo. Doyle, Flint, Meredith and Angela shouldn't be listed as dead until we know for sure (I'm not even sure Sylar should be listed as dead, to be honest, as Claire came back from similar wounds). Did I miss anyone? --Stevehim 03:29, 16 December 2008 (EST)

• • Now that I think about it, can we even say Danny Pine is dead? All we know for certain is that his arm was removed, but that doesn't mean he is necessarily dead. --Stevehim 03:51, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • Angela isn't dead. She's standing with HRG and Claire at the end of the episode watching the building burn. Mohinder probably escaped while Nathan and Peter fought, he wasn't healed in the car, he was healed when Peter dumped the big barrel of liquid everywhere. He just figured out he was healed at the car. Sylar didn't kill Doyle, just overpowered him. Anyone Sylar didn't kill could've escaped between the time Sylar was disabled and Meredith exploded. Flint probably survived the fire, but Meredith's heart probably exploded like Sylar said it would. Sylar will probably be ok once the glass is removed. Claire survived an autopsy. As long as his brain isn't burnt up, he'll survive.--Mistyjo 06:42, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Wow, what?

Firstly, how the hell did Mohinder escape Pinehearst only seconds before it exploded? Secondly, where did the Haitian go? And how did Sylar get from New Jersey to New York and kill almost everyone in the Primatech facility in a span of, I dunno, five minutes? Other than that, solid episode. Bryan Fuller didn't write it by any chance, did he? It really felt like the old Heroes. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:22, 15 December 2008 (EST)

• Maybe he left to go after Maya again now that he has his ability under control and was not there for that reason.--WarGrowlmon18 00:25, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • I was wondering about Haitian as well. Bloodbath 22:26, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • He went after Sylar at the end of "Our Father". Apparently he lost him. --Dumpster juice 22:41, 15 December 2008 (EST)
      • Yeah, apparently... :/ - Mike N. 22:45, 15 December 2008 (EST)
        • Fuller isnt back until episode NINETEEN... so no.. he had nothing to do with it. Personally, i thought this was the worst episode of the entire series. Not a good finale at all. --Action Figure 23:27, 15 December 2008 (EST)
          • I disagree, I think it worked. Might be the worst volume finale, yeah, but it still had a decent amount of cliffhangers and such, just what I've expected from the show. My favorite bit was Ando's ability. The amount of stuff shown onscreen was a bit disappointing though. I'm expecting deleted scenes on the next DVD set.--PeterDawson 00:36, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Rescuing Hiro

The way they saved Hiro made no sense to me, and it seemed kinda... lame. Daphne is really fast, and the theory of relativity says that if you move faster than the speed of light you can jump forward in time (i think). This reminds me of the movie Paycheck (a movie i love, but everyone else seems to hate :( ). So shouldn't Daphne only be able to go forward in time? Just seemed like a bad way to wrap that up in my opinion.--onehardrocker 23:02, 15 December 2008 (EST)

• Maybe she was running backwards (*ba dum bum*). Anyways, according to Wikipedia: "It is generally considered that it is [sic] impossible for any information or matter to travel faster than c, because it would travel backwards in time relative to some observers." The "some observers" in this case, I guess, would be the planet Earth.--Tim Thomason 23:40, 15 December 2008 (EST)
  • i like what they did with Ando's ability, is anyone else excited to see all the possibities? what'll happen if he zapped Claire, or Nathan, or Tracy, or Claude, or that chick from the GN with the super stank chlorine breath.--Anthony Gooch 23:46, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • Or what if he gave a super charge to someone who had no powers, like an old friend. Ruler 06:26, 16 December 2008 (EST)
• I guess you're right. I was confused, and for some reason I thought she went forward in time, but she went backwards. Alright, it makes a little more sense.--onehardrocker 00:23, 16 December 2008 (EST)
• Didn't Superman go back in time the same way? Flying around the world really fast? It's not really a new concept.--Mistyjo 06:20, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • Superman flew around the world and caused time (and everybody on the planet) to go in reverse. . However, in the Silver Age he'd travel back through time. So did the Flash, hence Daphne's comment "Back in a flash." --Gadfly 08:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Matt sees Usutu

So... what's that all about? And was Usutu holding a hangman thingie?

• He saw that in It's Coming, it led him to Angela. That's unexplained right now.--WarGrowlmon18 00:25, 16 December 2008 (EST)

after...

ando injected himself and it cut to the pigeon, i thought he turned into a pigeon. :DRaiku 00:24, 16 December 2008 (EST)

• Lol, my mom thought the same thing. --Iloveguarana 01:43, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Video request: Hiro punching Tracy in the face

If someone could capture this scene and get it on YouTube I would owe them a million thanks. That was the funniest scene so far this season (the look on Tracy's face! Daphne's reaction! the fact that Hiro actually did that!), if not of all time on the show. Pure gold. --Iloveguarana 01:47, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Review

I also thought this was a great episode. It was cool also that Sylar got to do the opening monologue. That was him, right? And his first time?--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)

• Yes, and yes. Greg Beeman talks about it a bit on his blog this week. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:58, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Messed Up

Don't know if anyone's noticed this, but telekinesis seems to be the strongest ability/ability with the most potential. If you look back at the whole series you'll find this is true. Sylar's levitated, created a glass shard storm, sliced people's skulls, telekinetically enhanced his strength. Yet this is in fact not the case, all abilities have a lot of potential to be used in different, better ways than they are currently seen being used on the show, but Sylar is the only person who actually uses all aspects of his ability. Suspension of disbelief much?

And if Doyle can force an evolved human to use his ability, why couldn't he stop Sylar from using his telekinesis?

messed up.Freakonut 03:22, 16 December 2008 (EST)

• You know, I think Doyle couldn't stop Sylar from using TK, because a) Sylar is REALLY REALLY powerful and b) maybe his 'puppet mastery' doesn't work on somebody's brain? Ravenka 03:28, 16 December 2008 (EST)

• Sylar is very powerful because not only does he have some dangerous powers, he has studied them at a molecular level and masters them very quickly. Telekinesis seems to be one of his favorites and since he's had it the longest and had so much practice, he's very good at it. Arthur also had a great control over his powers.

As for Doyle, just like Angela fighting Matt in season one when he read her mind, Sylar mentally fought Doyle until Doyle's nose bled and he passed out. Doyle was controling Sylar's movements until Sylar was able to overpower Doyle mentally.--Mistyjo 06:17, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Alternately, Sylar probably uses a gesture as focus and an aiming guide, but it's not mandatory. It probably limits him to more subtle, so he probably pinches a few blood vessels closed, or opened them up, rather than slam Doyle into a wall at 50 mph. --Gadfly 08:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Who turned Sylar into a monster?

The synopsis says, "He (Sylar) says they see him as a monster, but notes Claire did that to him." but I was under the impression he was speaking of the Company or more specifically HRG and maybe even Angela. However, I don't think he meant Claire. That is unless he blames Claire for what he did to Elle, which I don't think he does.--Mistyjo 07:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Didn't Nathan learn?

Remember a few episodes back when Nathan said something like, "the last time I tried to tell everyone about people with abilities, my brother came back from the future and shot me."? I guess now he thinks rounding them up like cattle and locking them away will help help preserve his future?? I think those "delusions of grandeur" passed from Arthur to Nathan when he died. --Denali 09:52, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Not as I was expecting it

• The episode didn't really go too well as I was expecting it. I mean, I was really thinking that the episdoe will be full of action, Powers vs. Powers, Good vs Evil. But what we got is a lot of unanswered question and not enough satisfaction.

• The villains that were used, especially Echo and Danny Pine, were just given like a 3 second screen scene. I was expecting when Noah freed them, there'll be like a huge fight scene, but what we got is Danny Pine's hand and Echo lying in the floor dead. I really wanna see how Sylar and them fought each other...

Anyways, the episode would've been great if they gave a longer runtime....

PS I think Micah's comin back this new season, since he's profile is shown in the scene where Nathan speaks to the President...can't wait for the next 2 months...

--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 10:53, 16 December 2008 (EST)

• • I don't know what you're talking about. While there wasn't a lot of action, there was a TON of drama and some very sickening moments for all characters. Several questions were finally answered, and many loose ends have finally been tied up. I loved this episode, top to bottom. Fantastic dialogue and excellent confrontation. Even better was the teaser for Fugitives. I didn't think the show could GET any darker than Villains, but holy crap. I watched the episode with friends, and when the teaser came on, we were in stunned silence. Now we get to see what happens when the heroes face off against the world. --Ricard Desi 11:00, 16 December 2008 (EST)