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Episode talk:Dual

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Episode name

Was this changed to 'Duality' at some point? Imdb lists it as 'War,' and I could've sworn a comment in a BTE interview did as well. --Stevehim 17:45, 30 November 2008 (EST)

  • Apparently it was; I remember seeing the move in the recent changes at one point... I believe it was RGS who made the move, you could ask him why it was changed. I would like to know why myself. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 17:48, 30 November 2008 (EST)
    • As per [the official press release] --Pierre 17:55, 30 November 2008 (EST)
    • Josh made the move. NBC's information is usually more accurate than IMDb, which is essentially a fan-contributed resource, somewhat like Heroes Wiki, but with tighter restrictions and administration. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:17, 30 November 2008 (EST)
      • Agreed. I was more using it as a backup source to the BTE interview, but it looks like they decided to change it, for whatever reason. --Stevehim 18:21, 30 November 2008 (EST)
        • Aaand it was changed again. Any reason why they keep changing it? Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:46, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Aron Coleite and Joe Pokaski said on the 10th Wonder Podcast that they have seen four different titles for this: War, Duality, Dual, and Duel. - Tristan0709 17:19, 7 December 2008 (EST)

  • I guess they decided on the fourth now. Next they'll be changing it to like, Mr. Muggles goes to War or something. - Tristan0709 18:22, 11 December 2008 (EST)
    • I'm still waiting on Duality Duel: Dual War.--Crazylicious 19:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)

It was "Dual" in the episode. Mike 22:08, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Final Scene

Barack Obama bitches!!! Ha! --Dumpster juice 22:02, 15 December 2008 (EST)

  • Was it REALLY!? --DarkPhoenix 22:03, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • Haha, I think it was meant to be. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:04, 15 December 2008 (EST)
  • No, think of the timeline that Heroes is set in, plus the fact that he looked nothing like Obama (other than skin color). Bloodbath 22:06, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • Since when has Heroes kept to the very letter of their own timeline? They've been inconsistent before. Even if the character isn't actually Barack Obama, I'm fairly certain he was a nod to our President-elect, considering the proximity of this episode's airing to the recent election. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:19, 15 December 2008 (EST)
      • Probably a nod, yes, but I don't think it was supposed to be him...Bloodbath 22:25, 15 December 2008 (EST)
        • The episode was shot in October. Greg Beeman talks a bit about this on his blog. "Tim Kring really wanted to cast an African American in the role of the President, even though, at that time it was quite uncertain how the election would turn out." -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:29, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Apparently he was played by Michael Dorn - Tristan0709 talk 22:20, 15 December 2008 (EST)

  • "Apparently"? Dorn has one of the most recognizable voices to sci-fi fans of the last twenty years - I knew the second I heard him talk. Awesome.--Mikebdoss 03:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • Second only to James Earl Jones LOL! As an old ST:TNG fan, I am looking forward to his performances. Hunter2005 12:01, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Sylar

How do you think he survived this time? Bloodbath 22:07, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Ha, good question. Mike 22:08, 15 December 2008 (EST)
Once someone removes that glass outta his head, "he's Back"...again!--Anthony Gooch 22:53, 15 December 2008 (EST)
I think his body was destroyed in the explosion or fire that followed.--WarGrowlmon18 00:28, 16 December 2008 (EST)
Then his entire body will regenerate itself, like Peter and Claire after Costa Verde got nuked in the future. Revengeance 04:25, 16 December 2008 (EST)
That's another "WTF question". I guess any brain matter left would regenerate the body. Bloodbath 19:06, 18 December 2008 (EST)
My question is why doesn't Sylar seem interested in the abilities of others? I understand he can take their power without sawing their head off, but they never showed Sylar using or even attempting to steal the powers of Doyle, Pine and Meredith. All of their abilities are pretty powerful, you'd think Sylar would covet them as well. --Denali 10:00, 16 December 2008 (EST)
Well, there is a guy with a shotgun, experienced in hunting down special persons, after him. Sylar usually takes a few minutes to "study" someone he's stealing powers from. It's a dangerous window of vulnerability in a tricky situation. --Gadfly 10:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)
One question remains. Who will get the glass out of his head? What do you think? Who will do that?--Alen76
Mortician. I think that in an attempt to bring back the old success of the series, there will be a lot of echoes of the first season from here out.--Falcomadol 12:18, 22 December 2008 (EST)
I would hope they would keep tabs on Sylar's body themselves especially after the finale to season 1 and how he managed to escape Kirby Plaza after Hiro's "death blow". I don't think they will let the regular authorities handle Sylar. --Denali 10:28, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Peter and the formula?

Now in the article on Peter it says his ability is flight. Should it be listed as such, or should it be empathic mimicry, since we know that is his power? I know that it's disputable since we can't know if the formula gave him flight or simply restored his mimicry... Mike 22:10, 15 December 2008 (EST)

  • Empathic mimicry is in his DNA, isn't it? I think we should say that he got it back and mimicked flight. I started a discussion about this on his talk page. Bloodbath 22:12, 15 December 2008 (EST)
  • I agree. However, until he demonstrates another ability (i.e. Suresh's ability or Flint's ability), then he's only really shown flight. Jrrenola 22:15, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • It just seems unlikely that he would be given flight of all abilities right then. Bloodbath 22:19, 15 December 2008 (EST)
      • Well Nathan has flight, and he was in a proximity to Nathan. So either he only has flight or he has empathetic mimicry back.--onehardrocker 22:57, 15 December 2008 (EST)
  • He seemed fully healed in the clearing at the end. --Fmorel90 22:25, 15 December 2008 (EST)

I'd say he regained empathic mimickry at least and either regained all of his powers or mimicked Nathan's again and probably Flint's. I didn't think he was healed at the end, but I'm not sure.--WarGrowlmon18 00:27, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • It seems very likely that he has regained empathic mimicry--but that's not confirmed yet. Until he demonstrates another ability, or until we have confirmation on what ability he has, we should probably just list him as having flight. Explanatory (but non speculative) notes are fine. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:31, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • Regarding WarGrowlmon18's comment on Peter being fully healed at the end, this can be proven wrong as Peter still has his wound on his cheek after he landed with Nathan. --Xanderish 04:56, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • I agree, the ability is wired to the DNA. When Peter took the formula, is only makes sense that he got back Empathic Mimicry (only his original power). Since he was in promixity to Nathan, he used flight. Even if he absorbed Flints ability, there was no need to use it at that time. Other than that, there is no way to tell since he didn't exhibit any other powers. However, I believe this is what happened. --Denali 09:56, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • Actually, I think that if it's really EM he got back, he might have gotten all abilities back, mimicked and exposed and here's why: we know Sylar kept telekinesis after the Shanti virus because of the emotional tool taking the power took on him. Peter's ability is to get others' abilities via emotion as well, so it would make sense if all the abilities he had before were restored as well, Mohinder said back in season one that Peter's DNA constantly shifts to acquire new abilities, so if the formula kickstarts the EM DNA, it could possibly restart acquired&exposed DNA as well. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:22, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • It is EM... of course!

Just like Mohinder said on "The second coming" : "...with each person's blood chemistry, it would mean individual powers".

So, Peter only has flight and pyrokinesis, and maybe enhanced strenght from Mohinder... I'm pretty sure of this. --Themd 17:28, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • This season and especially this episode represent something of a "reset" for Heroes. Sylar lost many of his powers early in the season; Peter is now having to start over, as well; and the abilities of space-time manipulation and precognition seem to be completely gone, as everyone who had them either lost them or died. --Ted C 15:51, 17 December 2008 (EST)
  • It seems to me that all Peter would have to do is think about that person even after the return of his lost ability. If he has EM, then just think about Nathan and he flies. At least that how he explained it to Claude in Season One. (But this does cause a problem in understanding how he heals from a death-wound, if thinking is how he activates his power.)--Mtundu 03:04, 18 December 2008 (EST)
    • I don't know about that. Arthur stole all of Peter's abilities. Even if Peter thought about a person to use their ability he still couldn't since Arthur took them away from him. Then Peter injected himself which would seem to give him his original ability. Had Arthur been alive and if Peter was near him after injecting himself, then I see him getting all of his previously acquired abilities. --Denali 14:22, 18 December 2008 (EST)
    • This is in regards to Ted's comment; I am confused about F-Sylar having precognition. I recall him using it in I_Am_Become_Death unless that future was based in a timeline where Sylar never lost his powers from the shanti virus? (Because somehow he got them back by then, although I guess he could have taken if from Usatu at some point in that exposed future timeline) Also, if Hiro somehow got ahold of the forumla, he should get his space-time ability back. As another note, do you think it may be possible the formula is still within the bodies of Peter, Mohinder and Ando? If so, they could conceivable use their blood to make more formula. Just a thought... --Denali 14:22, 18 December 2008 (EST)
      • Sylar had precognition in that future cause he found someone else with that power and took it, it was stated in a BTE interview. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:12, 18 December 2008 (EST)
      • Sylar gained the precognition through Issac in Season 1!!!! The Shanti Virus does not completely remove powers it just suppresses it, once he was cured of the virus he was able to use his abilities and did not need to find them again. --Cazza09
        • Get your facts straight, it's been confirmed by interviews that Sylar lost all but his original ability and telekinesis when he got the Shanti virus, I don't want to sound rude but you really should look around for updated info, him losing all but those two has been common knowledge for at least a month. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:34, 18 December 2008 (EST)
          • Well, maybe the wiki should be updated to reflect this information for F-Sylar because this is how it currently reads: "Despite losing his ability to paint the future and to manipulate radiation due to the Shanti virus, by 2011 he has somehow regained these powers.". Obviously, this is part of the confusion. If I knew the answer, I would have updated it myself... --Denali 09:19, 19 December 2008 (EST)
          • I haven't heard the interviews so I apologise if that has explained it. But the reason for my earlier post was the Shanti Virus only blocks abilities as all who have been cured of the virus have regained the use of their powers. In the alternate future Sylar used both the precog and radiation abilities. So I assumed Sylar still had his all the acquired abilities, we just hadn't seen him use them. And I assumed the changing of the future wouldn't have affected the powers since the changes took place after he was cured. But if the virus blocks some peoples abilities yet removes Sylars powers but still leaves some of the stolen powers......it just doesn't make sense!!--Cazza09 18:19, 19 December 2008 (EST)
            • It's been said in interviews that during the four years between present show and IABD, Sylar reacquired these abilities from other unnamed evolved humans. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:48, 20 December 2008 (EST)

Flint's scar

Is it just me, or was Flint's scar in the shape of the symbol? Bloodbath 22:16, 15 December 2008 (EST)

  • Yep I saw that too. - Mike N. 22:17, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • I kept thinking the same thing. An HD screen cap would be nice to see. --Iloveguarana 01:42, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Fred1793 18:59, 16 December 2008 (EST)

        • I saw the same thing, but I wonder if the image above was slightly enhanced. I looked through just about every frame that showed his cut (not a scar) and not one showed the little lines that are part of the symbol. Is this Photoshopped a little? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:23, 16 December 2008 (EST)
          • When I watched it, I did see the lines at the bottom, I only don't recall lines at the top.--Riddler 08:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)
  • For those who still doubt that I photoshopped this, I didn't. Heres more screen cap of the wound. Image_talk:FlintBloodSymbol.jpg

--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 09:18, 17 December 2008 (EST)

    • So you're admitting that you photoshopped it? Because I don't think "doubt" is the word you're going for here. --Ciwey 09:21, 17 December 2008 (EST)
  • I said, for those who's saying that the image is photoshopped, think again, because its not. And why did you remove my previous reply??? --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 09:26, 17 December 2008 (EST)
    • 1) Your use of doubt in the first clause insinuated the opposite, which led to the confusion.

2) Editing conflict. --Ciwey 09:30, 17 December 2008 (EST)

  • Okay then. If you guys really wanna make sure, download the episode here... [1]

--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 09:58, 17 December 2008 (EST)

    • Why would he photoshop it? What does he get out of that? Bloodbath 14:47, 17 December 2008 (EST)
  • defiantly not photoshoped, watched the BBC3 last night and i saw the scar and it was not photo shopped. Fred1793 07:01, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Deaths: Confirmable and non-

Let's see... Knox is dead... Doyle? Flint? Meredith? Sylar? (doubt Sylar - he'll get out somehow)... Opinions? Mike 22:22, 15 December 2008 (EST)

  • Doyle isn't dead. He could have gotten up and stumbled out of Primatech. It's not like he got his throat slashed or arm ripped off. Meredith has "exploded" before. She may have survived. Sylar is dead until a shard of glass is removed probably by an autopsy person like Claire and a tree branch...and you forgot Pine and Echo. -- Cael 22:25, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • You can't say for certain that Doyle isn't dead. Especially considering that he was left in visibly bad shape after Sylar messed with him. And... not to mention the building kind of... exploded... and fell on him... Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:27, 15 December 2008 (EST)
      • But we can't say he definitely is dead. The building didn't instantaneously explode right after that happened. Time passed and he could have recuperated enough to stumble out. Besides things I won't mention, a Niki situation would have to occur for him to be dead, and even then we would have to wait. -- Cael 22:34, 15 December 2008 (EST)
        • I don't think anyone ever said he definitely was dead... Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:35, 15 December 2008 (EST)
          • Doyle, Flint, Meredith, maybe even Pine (was he seen, aside from his arm?) all could have escaped in the magical way Mohinder did. I'm not positive there wasn't some small time delay (a few minutes) that the editing left out (where Claire raced to go to Meredith). I thought for sure Flint killed Mohinder, but he was fine and dandy a little bit later (did his power return in the car, or was that just visual poetry?).--Tim Thomason 22:40, 15 December 2008 (EST)

I'd say Flint, Merideth and Sylar are all dead. I think one of the spoliers for the episode said that one of Claire's parents were gonna die so that pretty much confirms that. Flint was probably still in the building when it exploded although no guarentee of that and as for Sylar, his body was probably immolated or destroyed in the explosion and I'm pretty sure that it has been said that an injury that particular spot is final. I think Peter's body automaticly mimicked Claire's power again and it saved him and Claire survived due to it being before the writters wrote that fact in.--WarGrowlmon18 00:23, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • Note that earlier in the episode, Flint said he "can't burn" and didn't seem to have any concern that he might be harmed as he prepared to burn Pinehearst down around him. Whether he could survive the massive explosion that we see, which is concussion as well as heat, remains to be seen. Whether Meredith has similar immunity to flames is unknown. --Gadfly 01:55, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • And it's pretty unlikely Sylar is dead, if they're going to bring in Sylar's father in the next chapter. --Gadfly 02:36, 16 December 2008 (EST)

So, how do we address all of this? It seems the only deaths we can confirm for the moment are: Scott, Knox, Sylar, Danny Pine and Echo. Doyle, Flint, Meredith and Angela shouldn't be listed as dead until we know for sure (I'm not even sure Sylar should be listed as dead, to be honest, as Claire came back from similar wounds). Did I miss anyone? --Stevehim 03:29, 16 December 2008 (EST)

    • Now that I think about it, can we even say Danny Pine is dead? All we know for certain is that his arm was removed, but that doesn't mean he is necessarily dead. --Stevehim 03:51, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • Angela isn't dead. She's standing with HRG and Claire at the end of the episode watching the building burn. Mohinder probably escaped while Nathan and Peter fought, he wasn't healed in the car, he was healed when Peter dumped the big barrel of liquid everywhere. He just figured out he was healed at the car. Sylar didn't kill Doyle, just overpowered him. Anyone Sylar didn't kill could've escaped between the time Sylar was disabled and Meredith exploded. Flint probably survived the fire, but Meredith's heart probably exploded like Sylar said it would. Sylar will probably be ok once the glass is removed. Claire survived an autopsy. As long as his brain isn't burnt up, he'll survive.--Mistyjo 06:42, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Sylar will survive... that's for sure. --Themd 18:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)

        • Mohindar probably wasn't healed. If you look at the scene in which he climbs into the passenger seat of Tracy's car we still see lesions on Mohindar's face. It seems the lesions are invisible to him but not to us the audience. Now it could be a continuity error, but I doubt it. Hunter2005 12:12, 18 December 2008 (EST)
        • Could that just be the cut he got from when Flint hit him earleir? Weren't the lesions on the right side of his face and in the car what seems to be believed to be lesions is really just a wound that is still kinda open?--Cazza09 18:59, 18 December 2008 (EST)
          • I think you are right. I just rewatch the scene in which he was tossed around by Flint (what happened to Mohindar's super strength?) and he didn't have that mark at the time. Hunter2005 04:04, 20 December 2008 (EST)
  • You guys are saying that Mohinder magically escaped Pinehearst before it exploded... but I just re-watched, and it looks like Mohinder woke up (from being knocked out by Flint) when the vat of formula was spilled, which was at least a few minutes before the explosion. He could've had enough time to at least get out of that particular room/lab. Also, when Peter flew out the window with Nathan, it really looked like only that room "exploded" - we didn't see any other part of Pinehearst in flames, unlike the Company which was watched burn right down. So "technically", Mohinder had enough time to at least get to a different level of the building before his lab went up in flames.--Jessica13 19:26, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • Meredith's death was strange. She didn't seem to literally explode. She actually "faded out", then her fire flooded the cell. I don't think the director would've been worried about showing a person blow up into yucky pieces, considering the amount of other gory stuff in this episode. Besides, hasn't Meredith exploded inside a building before and survived somehow? Er, as Cael has already stated. :P Revengeance 03:17, 17 December 2008 (EST)
    • I'm pretty sure that Meredith should be able to survive. For one, she's exploded before (though likely not as intense). For another, Sylar trapped Noah in the same cell as her because he wanted him to make a choice - his life or hers. If Meredith would've died either way, there wouldn't really be a point in doing that. --Ciwey 04:37, 17 December 2008 (EST)
      • Well, unless the building collapsed and crushed her to death, I mean. --Ciwey 09:14, 17 December 2008 (EST)
        • Level 5 is like a concrete bunker; it will probably survive whatever happens to the building above. In any case, I've put a "Presumed Dead" heading on the Death page for people in this limbo. --Ted C 15:54, 17 December 2008 (EST)
  • All that happened to Meredith was she was unable to control her power, her power is creating fire so that doesn't mean she explodes. She just produces the same amount of fire as an explosion. I doubt that could kill her as it didn't happen before, so the only thing that could result in her death would be the building crushing her which we don't know for certain.--Cazza09 18:59, 18 December 2008 (EST)
  • I'm a little confused didn't Tracy pick up Mohinder, revealing him to be alive?--Dman dustin 02:35, 1 January 2009 (EST)

Wow, what? Is this a good episode for a finale?

Firstly, how the hell did Mohinder escape Pinehearst only seconds before it exploded? Secondly, where did the Haitian go? And how did Sylar get from New Jersey to New York and kill almost everyone in the Primatech facility in a span of, I dunno, five minutes? Other than that, solid episode. Bryan Fuller didn't write it by any chance, did he? It really felt like the old Heroes. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:22, 15 December 2008 (EST)

  • Maybe he left to go after Maya again now that he has his ability under control and was not there for that reason.--WarGrowlmon18 00:25, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • I was wondering about Haitian as well. Bloodbath 22:26, 15 December 2008 (EST)
      • He went after Sylar at the end of "Our Father". Apparently he lost him. --Dumpster juice 22:41, 15 December 2008 (EST)
        • Yeah, apparently... :/ - Mike N. 22:45, 15 December 2008 (EST)
          • Fuller isnt back until episode NINETEEN... so no.. he had nothing to do with it. Personally, i thought this was the worst episode of the entire series. Not a good finale at all. --Action Figure 23:27, 15 December 2008 (EST)
            • I disagree, I think it worked. Might be the worst volume finale, yeah, but it still had a decent amount of cliffhangers and such, just what I've expected from the show. My favorite bit was Ando's ability. The amount of stuff shown onscreen was a bit disappointing though. I'm expecting deleted scenes on the next DVD set.--PeterDawson 00:36, 16 December 2008 (EST)
              • Let's remember that this is the first Volume Finale that is NOT also a Season Finale. There is a bit of a different dynamic don't you think?--Mtundu 03:08, 18 December 2008 (EST)
  • OMG! could Sylar have killed the Haitian? and maybe that's why Eric couldn't control him? --Themd 18:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • eric did control him and the evidence is in the fact that eric can only control movments, he couldent control sylars power, eric moved sylars hands away so he couldn't slice his or meridiths head open. But acctually he just injected her with adrenaline. So sylar just tked his head or brain...Fred1793 07:15, 18 December 2008 (EST)
  • I think this is a great episode for a volume finale! I enjoyed it very much!--Alen76 16:31, 18 December 2008 (GMT)

Rescuing Hiro

The way they saved Hiro made no sense to me, and it seemed kinda... lame. Daphne is really fast, and the theory of relativity says that if you move faster than the speed of light you can jump forward in time (i think). This reminds me of the movie Paycheck (a movie i love, but everyone else seems to hate :( ). So shouldn't Daphne only be able to go forward in time? Just seemed like a bad way to wrap that up in my opinion.--onehardrocker 23:02, 15 December 2008 (EST)

  • Maybe she was running backwards (*ba dum bum*). Anyways, according to Wikipedia: "It is generally considered that it is [sic] impossible for any information or matter to travel faster than c, because it would travel backwards in time relative to some observers." The "some observers" in this case, I guess, would be the planet Earth.--Tim Thomason 23:40, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • i like what they did with Ando's ability, is anyone else excited to see all the possibities? what'll happen if he zapped Claire, or Nathan, or Tracy, or Claude, or that chick from the GN with the super stank chlorine breath.--Anthony Gooch 23:46, 15 December 2008 (EST)
    • She shouldn't (based on Einstein's relativity) ever be able to travel backward on her personal timeline though. It's just relative to everything else (in the absence of a universe where space-time doesn't fold back in on itself and/or have toruslike features, and in such a case, she would have to be traveling in very specific ways to travel backwards relative to herself). So she's wearing a watch, the watch says that ten minutes have passed while she is traveling at a speed approaching the speed of light, and everyone else perceives that a much longer period of time has passed. She's only losing time relative to other people, she's not losing time relative to herself. Doesn't matter, this is fiction anyway, and within the confines of the story time-travel is possible, and causality is non-invariant, so we should stop obsessing about it, it's just a coincidence that they are throwing around the name Einstein, because his theory in our universe bears no relation to whatever theory he apparently had there.--Falcomadol 15:15, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • Or what if he gave a super charge to someone who had no powers, like an old friend. Ruler 06:26, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • I guess you're right. I was confused, and for some reason I thought she went forward in time, but she went backwards. Alright, it makes a little more sense.--onehardrocker 00:23, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • Didn't Superman go back in time the same way? Flying around the world really fast? It's not really a new concept.--Mistyjo 06:20, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • Superman flew around the world and caused time (and everybody on the planet) to go in reverse. . However, in the Silver Age he'd travel back through time. So did the Flash, hence Daphne's comment "Back in a flash." --Gadfly 08:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • Daphne's ability actually seems to be a very specialized form of space-time manipulation that takes effect when she runs. That would explain how she can run with other people instead of yanking their arms off. Basically, she "bends time" to allow herself to run a thousand steps (arbitrary number) in the time most people could run one step. When supercharged, her ability bent time even further, allowing her to move backward and forward through time. --Ted C 12:13, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • I like that explanation best, it makes more sense than her actually running faster than the speed of light for loads of reasons (like her weight should increase exponentially as she approaches c, at the speed of light she would become pure energy and cause a continent sized explosion) --NichS 13:44, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • It also means Daphne should age roughly a thousand times faster. Granted she doesn't use the power 24/7, but there's no indication she reserves it for short important bursts of speed, either, if there was a rapid-aging factor involved.
    • If you travel fast enough you age LESS as relativity implies that 10 mins for her will be 1 hour for everybody else... What i think ted is saying is that she is able to do this but reverse the effects, This means there her time she has travel would have to be a negative interger... as speed= distance/time.Fred1793 09:28, 18 December 2008 (EST)
  • Did anyone else notice in the scene where Kaito discovers present-day Hiro had gone into his safe, the sword he pulled out was the Kensei sword? That was a nice touch, but I wonder why Kaito had it at that time - wasn't Linderman supposed to have claimed ownership in 1977?--Jessica13 19:11, 16 December 2008 (EST)

No, the theory of relativity does not limit you to forward movement through time only. Matter of fact, all of the examples that I've read has had someone travelling several times the speed of light, say around the sun and back, only to see themselves just leaving from earth. And if you think about it, it makes sense...in a way. You're travelling faster than light can keep up. If you travel significantly faster than the speed of light (say for 1 day), you can come back and see things that 'should' be in the past according to your time reference (i.e. people on earth only show you being gond for four hours and so are having lunch on a day you think should already be over). Also, there have been test conducted which supposedly prove that cesium atomic clocks move slower when being accelerated...in other words, if atomic clocks are indeed a direct representation of the flow of time and not just an indicator, then the slowing of the cesium clock shows that time has slowed as well. Choytw 13:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Outpacing light and traveling backward in time are two different things. Outpacing light is the same as outpacing radio waves. For instance, radio and television communication radiation is being emitted from Earth constantly, and travels away at the speed of light, you can arrive at a point farther from the Earth before the radiation does, and if you had the proper equipment, you could replay the signal, but that doesn't mean that you have traveled back in time, it just means that you arrived at a distant point prior to the signal. Einstein's classic example was a person with a lantern standing in a train moving at very high speeds. His examples do not address a universe where parts of the universe that would be distant are actually connected to one another by things like wormholes. As I said previously, if you were able to "loop back" then that says something about the topology of the universe that is more or less unproven at this point. In a universe that is "flat" (but perhaps curved, in any case, it isn't a sphere or a donut), you can't actually travel backward in time. ;)--Falcomadol 12:27, 22 December 2008 (EST)
  • So does hiro have his power? And if he doesnt how did they get back to the normal timeline/ the present? User:Peter
    • Hiro does not have any powers right now. When Ando supercharges Daphne's super speed, she goes back in time a few moments. They held on to each other and kept going back, back, back, until they got to the time where Hiro was. They grabbed Hiro and went back. I don't know exactly how the supercharging got them back to the present, but it did. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:15, 17 December 2008 (EST)
      • Maybe Daphne ran backwards :P Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 20:20, 17 December 2008 (EST)
        • It will be interesting to hear their explanation - and I hope it's not as simple-minded as run backwards for the past and forwards for the future lol Choytw -- Talk 10:37, 18 December 2008 (EST)
          • I agree, I am curious how they got back to the present. Matt Parkman does say something to the effect, "according to Einstein's Theory of Relativity, if you can travel faster than the speed of light, you can move through time." He didn't specify you can only move backwards in time. I definitely would like to know how that all happened though. --Denali 09:29, 19 December 2008 (EST)
  • It does actually work both ways, just differently. If you can travel faster than the speed of light, the theory of special relativity states that you can arrive at your destination, turn around, and see yourself at your starting point (before you left). So in some way, you're travelling backwards in time. This is exactly what happened to Daphne the first time she jumped, which makes sense. Though given the small distance travelled she shouldn't have been able to go that far back in time, because the 'light' that she was seeing pass through the doorway (her past actions) would've already been past that point before she left. The same limitation would apply to the 16 year jump backwards as well, though I guess with enough 'supercharging' anything might be possible in the heroes universe. To jump forward in time you need to use the principle of time dilation. Instead of moving faster than the speed of light, Daphne would have to accelerate to almost (but not quite) the speed of light. As she accelerates towards the speed of light relative to everybody else on Earth, the passage of time for her would slow down relative to the passage of time for everybody else. So in this way, if she accelerated enough she could make 16 years pass for everybody else on Earth while she (and presumably Hiro and Ando along for the ride) would only experience a few minutes passing. (IANAS) --Maelwys 11:22, 19 December 2008 (EST)
    • Well, this is the key thing right? The laws of our universe and the laws of the Heroes universe are not the same, and we shouldn't expect them to be, despite the presence of Nissan cars in both.--Falcomadol 12:29, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Matt sees Usutu

So... what's that all about? And was Usutu holding a hangman thingie?

  • He saw that in It's Coming, it led him to Angela. That's unexplained right now.--WarGrowlmon18 00:25, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • I think that it has something to do with Usutu's power, because Angela can project her mind into others in both the past and future, meaning that Usutu did that just before his deth so he could guide them for years to come from beyond death.Halfbreed1426

after...

ando injected himself and it cut to the pigeon, i thought he turned into a pigeon. :DRaiku 00:24, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • Lol, my mom thought the same thing. --Iloveguarana 01:43, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Video request: Hiro punching Tracy in the face

If someone could capture this scene and get it on YouTube I would owe them a million thanks. That was the funniest scene so far this season (the look on Tracy's face! Daphne's reaction! the fact that Hiro actually did that!), if not of all time on the show. Pure gold. --Iloveguarana 01:47, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • Dude, im on ship with you. I hate Tracy/Nicky. We just need to kill this actor off one more time and then maybe she will be dead for good. I want her to die so much in this episode, and then Hiro socks her in the face; that was good enough for me. --WOlf 11:31, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • I'm not sure, but I think I remember them saying there were 3 sisters... but I agree too I cannot stand her.--onehardrocker 19:36, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • "Pikachu!?" Definitely my fave moment of the ep. --Torley 22:42, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • You mean kill off the character. Killing off the actress because you don't like her characters is a little extreme and morbid. ;) --Ciwey 07:31, 17 December 2008 (EST)
  • i dont think the Niki's life storyline and Tracy's life storyline don't get enough credit, personally i like it, but i think it has SOOO much more potential. I think if Tim Kring, or the writers, or whoever, didn't blow off her/their storyline just to focus on Pete the boy wonder and his evergrowing omnipotence list of abilities then it would be just as good...I mean, it seems he forgot all about Tracy looking for Barbara and just has Tracy as Nathan's fantasy chick of the week playing sidekick....bottom line i think Tim could have done better with Ali Larter's characters!--Anthony Gooch 00:36, 17 December 2008 (EST)
    • While I just about puked on each and every of poor Niki's storylines, I love Tracy (which makes me feel kinda schizo...) With that said - Ali Larter is a great actress! -- Pierre 08:05, 17 December 2008 (EST)
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd04GlZPOM0 Revengeance 00:04, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Review

I also thought this was a great episode. It was cool also that Sylar got to do the opening monologue. That was him, right? And his first time?--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • Yes, and yes. Greg Beeman talks about it a bit on his blog this week. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:58, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • Yes, great episode. Now that the formula is destroyed, we can look forward to the explosion future again, minus the explosion. Note in that future special people are in hiding from the government. --WOlf 11:42, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • Actually, it looks like we now have an "exposed future" in which evolved humans are hunted. And I'm not at all sure that the future in which some evolved human ability destroys the world has actually been averted. What's presumably gone is the "powers for sale" future, but any of the rest could still happen. --Ted C 12:16, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • Actually, the formula isn't destroyed (in all times). If you think about it, all it needs is for someone who can travel through time to steal it from the past. Choytw -- Talk 14:17, 17 December 2008 (EST)
        • That ability is now essentially extinct. The only person who can even simulate it, at present, is Daphne, and I daresay she's unlikely to go to the past to retrieve the formula after what she went through to destroy it. --Ted C 15:55, 17 December 2008 (EST)
          • Unless, of course, Peter did regain empathic mimicry and all of his absorbed abilities. But until that's confirmed... yeah, it is extinct. But they can't keep Hiro depowered for too long. He's too awesome. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 20:12, 17 December 2008 (EST)
            • I mentioned this in the Peter and Formula topic earlier. But do you think it's possible the formula is able to be extracted from Mohinder/Peter/Ando since they were all direct recipients? Conceivable, they could use them to create more formula which Hiro needs to inject himself with ASAP! --Denali 13:30, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Messed Up

Don't know if anyone's noticed this, but telekinesis seems to be the strongest ability/ability with the most potential. If you look back at the whole series you'll find this is true. Sylar's levitated, created a glass shard storm, sliced people's skulls, telekinetically enhanced his strength. Yet this is in fact not the case, all abilities have a lot of potential to be used in different, better ways than they are currently seen being used on the show, but Sylar is the only person who actually uses all aspects of his ability. Suspension of disbelief much?

And if Doyle can force an evolved human to use his ability, why couldn't he stop Sylar from using his telekinesis?

messed up.Freakonut 03:22, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • You know, I think Doyle couldn't stop Sylar from using TK, because a) Sylar is REALLY REALLY powerful and b) maybe his 'puppet mastery' doesn't work on somebody's brain? Ravenka 03:28, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • Sylar is very powerful because not only does he have some dangerous powers, he has studied them at a molecular level and masters them very quickly. Telekinesis seems to be one of his favorites and since he's had it the longest and had so much practice, he's very good at it. Arthur also had a great control over his powers.

As for Doyle, just like Angela fighting Matt in season one when he read her mind, Sylar mentally fought Doyle until Doyle's nose bled and he passed out. Doyle was controling Sylar's movements until Sylar was able to overpower Doyle mentally.--Mistyjo 06:17, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Alternately, Sylar probably uses a gesture as focus and an aiming guide, but it's not mandatory. It probably limits him to more subtle, so he probably pinches a few blood vessels closed, or opened them up, rather than slam Doyle into a wall at 50 mph. --Gadfly 08:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • I think it would be safe to assume that Doyle vs. Sylar went the same way as the Haitian vs. Arthur. Sylar could be calling up all his powers at once to "overload" Doyle. --Ricard Desi 11:43, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • Except Doyle showed no signs of stress. The Haitian was clearly struggling to maintain his mental hold on Arthur. Doyle barely seemed to notice Sylar was doing something in his head, until he fell over.


  • Another way they may have messed up was with Ando's ability, when Hiro went to the future we see Ando appear to kill Hiro by shooting elecricity at him. This seems to be just a red version of Elle's ability but what he is the power to amplify other powers. Will Ando be restricted to just this or will we see him able to use it as a weapon maybe in future episodes?

If the theory of Abilities being linked to a genetic code and specific to ones DNA then Ando's ability should include what happened when Hiro went into the future and shouldn't be changed.--Cazza09 19:42, 18 December 2008 (EST)

    • To the unknown poster's comments: We have seen abilites grow and change into something more. Like in Matt Parkman first being able to hear thoughts, then he learned to put thoughts in others and after meeting Maury, we learned how much potential his ability had. I can't recall when the future events of Ando killing Hiro take place, but it seems there is enough time to pass that Ando could learn to use his abilities in other ways, perhaps by overloading someone enough that they die or fall unconscious. --Denali 13:26, 19 December 2008 (EST)
      • It's at the end of the first episode when Hiro goes into the future to find out if the formula could end the world. He see's himself and Ando face to face, something is said about the formula, Hiro draws his sword and Ando seems to fire red electricity at Hiro, Hiro falls to the floor, Hiro spends the next few episodes complaining to Ando that he killed him. --Cazza09 18:29, 19 December 2008 (EST)
        • Right, but the question was how does his amplification ability turn into a deadly weapon, which is why I was saying maybe he used it to "overload" Hiro to kill him or render him unconscious. --Denali 11:38, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Who turned Sylar into a monster?

The synopsis says, "He (Sylar) says they see him as a monster, but notes Claire did that to him." but I was under the impression he was speaking of the Company or more specifically HRG and maybe even Angela. However, I don't think he meant Claire. That is unless he blames Claire for what he did to Elle, which I don't think he does.--Mistyjo 07:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Yeah, Claire didn't do anything to Sylar to cause him to turn into a monster. It was the Company, for sure. Bloodbath 19:13, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Didn't Nathan learn?

Remember a few episodes back when Nathan said something like, "the last time I tried to tell everyone about people with abilities, my brother came back from the future and shot me."? I guess now he thinks rounding them up like cattle and locking them away will help help preserve his future?? I think those "delusions of grandeur" passed from Arthur to Nathan when he died. --Denali 09:52, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • I think that Nathan's current motivator is his experience with Samedi. He despises how evolved humans can abuse their powers to hurt ordinary people. He believes that superhuman abilities need to be controlled for the benefit of mankind. Hence, the need to create a force of superhumans under government control and/or "round up" all evolved humans so they can't hurt other people. --Ted C 12:20, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • Right, good point Ted. I still think Nathan is walking a really thin line by doing so but obviously it's more important for him to prevent people from abusing their power than worrying about his own safety. Kind of admirable in a way. Nathan honestly think he's doing the right thing. I think it's a shame he doesn't love Peter enough to even want to save him like Peter did for him. I'm a younger brother too, and I basically finished Peter's explanation of why he saved his older bro as he said it. Nathan needs to share the love and open his heart. His way of taking care of people with abilities is cold and thoughtless. So I guess Nathan is the main villain for Season 4? Makes for good tv tho, can't wait to see how everyone fights back :) (reminds me of X-Men and the mutants on Genosha) --Denali 13:28, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • He wouldn't do the same huh??? What does he call what he did in Kirby Plaza then???--WarGrowlmon18 13:40, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • Huh??? This discussion has nothing to do with Season 1 Kirby Plaza...In last night's episode, the part after Peter flew Nathan out before the building collapsed. Nathan asked why Peter did it, Peter said, "You are my brother and I love you." And immediately afterward Nathan said, "I wouldn't have done that for you." This is what I am refering to. --Denali 13:46, 16 December 2008 (EST)
        • I know that: I'm not stupid. What I meant was he said he wouldn't do that yet he did that on Kirby Plaza.--WarGrowlmon18 13:47, 16 December 2008 (EST)
          • Who said you were? No one ever said you were stupid, last week on Our Father's episode discussion your post was insulting and overly offensive. No need to take offense here, Wargrowl. He said he wouldn't do that on last night's episode which takes place much later than the events of Kirby Plaza. Like Ted said, Nathan's perspective changes after his run in with Samedi. I don't see your point. --Denali 13:53, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • Actually, what Nathan did in Kirby Plaza is perfectly compatible with what he did in "Dual". In Kirby Plaza, he was acting to save the innocent people of New York, not Peter. Nathan has also gone through a lot of personal trauma and changes since Kirby Plaza which could easily explain a change of heart regarding Peter. --Ted C 14:25, 16 December 2008 (EST)
        • Exactly regarding the trauma and changes Nathan has gone through since Kirby Plaza. That was then and this is now. Back then it was a heart wrenching choice to save his brother or the people of New York City. Now, with his comment he will just as soon throw Peter to the wolves. Hunter2005 12:30, 18 December 2008 (EST)
          • Yes, kind of like how Arthur would not let anyone including his own family stand in his way, it seems Nathan is following suit with Pops. --Denali 13:18, 19 December 2008 (EST)
        • I agree with Ted, though I would clarify that I think Nathan did what he did in Kirby Plaza both to stop the bomb and for his brother. He was very unwilling to let Peter go once they had already flown high enough to avoid killing millions of people. Nathan's character arc is something of a sine curve, and it looks like we're heading for a trough. ;) --Stevehim 04:14, 20 December 2008 (EST)

Not as I was expecting it

  • The episode didn't really go too well as I was expecting it. I mean, I was really thinking that the episdoe will be full of action, Powers vs. Powers, Good vs Evil. But what we got is a lot of unanswered question and not enough satisfaction.
  • The villains that were used, especially Echo and Danny Pine, were just given like a 3 second screen scene. I was expecting when Noah freed them, there'll be like a huge fight scene, but what we got is Danny Pine's hand and Echo lying in the floor dead. I really wanna see how Sylar and them fought each other...

Anyways, the episode would've been great if they gave a longer runtime....

PS I think Micah's comin back this new season, since he's profile is shown in the scene where Nathan speaks to the President...can't wait for the next 2 months...

--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 10:53, 16 December 2008 (EST)

    • I don't know what you're talking about. While there wasn't a lot of action, there was a TON of drama and some very sickening moments for all characters. Several questions were finally answered, and many loose ends have finally been tied up. I loved this episode, top to bottom. Fantastic dialogue and excellent confrontation. Even better was the teaser for Fugitives. I didn't think the show could GET any darker than Villains, but holy crap. I watched the episode with friends, and when the teaser came on, we were in stunned silence. Now we get to see what happens when the heroes face off against the world. --Ricard Desi 11:00, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • Or at least the urgestalt black-ops government agency acting with impunity. I don't think there's any reason to think that this will be a full blown "exposed future." Nathan told the president because he wanted things done without going public.--Falcomadol 15:25, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • I agree with Ricard Desi, this episode was great. It was filled with excitement and drama!

Is it me or this episode makes no sense

What's up with using characters in ways that make no sense. First Sylar kills Elle for no apparent reason. Then we have HRG thinking he can take on Sylar with a shotgun when he knows that it's useless with telekinesis. Don't even let me go there with Daphne, Matt, and Ando.

  • A shotgun is better than nothing, and probably better than a handgun. Sylar can stop a bullet, but he might have more trouble with a spray of shot. Either way, you work with what you've got. --Ted C 12:22, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • I think it's just you. This episode was great. Sylar killed Elle because of his hunger and anger which was even bigger cause HRG told him that he isn't the part of the Petrelli family. His hunger was "shut down" because of the eclipse, but it returned in a violent way. I agree with Ted C, a shotgun is better than nothing. The scenes with Daphne, Matt and Ando were great and flawless. It seems like it's just you after all, because this episode has sense! :) --Alen76
  • You can forgive HRG for carrying a gun, but Meredith? That was just plain dumb. Telekinesis can stop bullets, but not fire. --Borowki 17:26, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Something to chew on for six weeks

Anyone else noticing that the Heroes universe is coasting very smoothly into a future halfway between the explosion future and the exposed future? --Ricard Desi 12:08, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • Good noticing. Tim Kring said that they'll take a time off with time-traveling plots. Maybe that's because they are "making" the future they saw now, if you understand what I mean.--Alen76 21:56, 17 December 2008 (GMT)

Pyrokinesis

  • Anyone knows why Sylar didnt took Merediths or Doyle's abilities
    • Presumably because he didn't want to take the time out from his mind games with Claire, Noah, and Angela. Examining a brain to get a power might also require a lot of his attention, which would leave him vulnerable -- not a good idea with Bennet around. --Ted C 13:03, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • For Meredith, its because he needs her to create a trap for Noah in the cell scene where Meredith lose control of her ability and they are both trap inside, and Noah has to choose either to shoot Meredith or let himself die, since Meredith can't get hurt by fire...It became like SAW here LOL, Live or Die - Make your choice.
    • For Doyle, I dont know, maybe because the ability is just like Telekinesis which he already have.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 15:09, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • I actually thought that Sylar did take Doyle's ability, and I base that off of his scene with Angela. It seemed to me that he was controlling her movements. I could be wrong though; I only watched it once. I'll look again when I re-watch in a few minutes. :) --Jessica13 15:13, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • All that looked like his usual telekinetic tricks to me. --Ted C 15:56, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • I'm not really sure if we can allow spoilers in talk pages, but I think thats just for Theories. Anyways, I saw a spoiler where Claire is doing a scene with Doyle for Season 4.
    • There is a separate page for spoilers, this page is for current episode discussion. A simple referal to the spoiler or fan theroy is sufficient, no need to tell the spoiler here on this page (some people do not want to see spoilers, that should be respected). Telekinesis and Doyle's ability share similiarities but they are not the same by any means. Sylar can manipulate any object animate or inanimate. Doyle can only control human movement and abilities. Also, there are a couple of posts in this topic that are unsigned. Please remember to sign your posts. --Denali 16:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • Also, Doyle's ability affects his victim's motor control. He doesn't physically move people's limbs with a variation of telekinesis, he causes them to take actions they don't actually want to take. He can not make an ordinary person float in the air, for example; he can only make them do things they could already do themselves. --Ted C 16:07, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • Additonally, Doyle's power is MORE then just motor control, it ties into abilities as well. I don't think Sylar can make a super use their abilities like doyle can... Thelink 18:18, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Nathan the hypocrite

Ya know, I find what Nathan is doing to be a bit hypocritical. Lock up all the specials when when you're one yourself? Oy! --SacValleyDweller (talk) 13:50, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • If Nathan actually included information on himself in the documents he gave to the President, he's not such a hypocrite. He says that the "specials" need to be rounded up and controlled; if he has, in effect, already turned himself in, then he has eliminated himself as a threat. Also, I think part-and-parcel of his plan will be recruiting some "specials" to police others. --Ted C 14:22, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • The reason Nathan feels the need to police those with abilities is to prevent someone like Samedi abusing their powers and achieving god-like status. His first idea was that it is the responsibility of those with powers to make sure the Baron Samedi situation never happened again. Without the formula to create his police force with powers he needs to resort to getting the goverment to build a secure area to monitor them and prevent them from becoming a danger to anyone. In the episode "Five Years Gone" in Season 1 Nathan says "Let's be honest. I can fly. I'm hardly dangerous." so he may not regard himself as dangerous enough to be included on the list, also he is the one handing over the list and making the request so you'd think that would rule him out as a danger. That's my view anyway.--Cazza09 10:26, 26 December 2008 (EST)
  • I think that Nathan has become what tvtropes call the "Well Intentioned Extremist". Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:41, 26 December 2008 (EST)

Revert the titlecard omitting the bulleted Arthur

I think including Arthur's bullet-holed face is a bit too graphic to include on the main page. I think we should revert the picture to it's prior state, just showing the carpet and the episode caption. Other thoughts and opinions? --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 12/16/2008 16:05 (EST)

  • Odd. I thought that having the episode caption in the episode pages main image was standard procedure, we've done it so much. --Ted C 16:36, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • It looks better than just the carpet. Bloodbath 18:20, 16 December 2008 (EST)

No plane crash?

Really? No plane crash? I thought the plane crash was the reason that they are going to become "Fugitives". I mean the government is going to hunt them but still I expected a plane crash of some kind. Oh wells.. - Mike N. 17:23, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • Someone's depending a bit too much on spoilers. My guess is that Kristin or whatever her name is, was messing with our minds. Or recruited by NBC to keep spoilers for the episode out. Notice how the last, I dunno, 4 days before the episode, there was NO new spoilers? Mike 18:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • I'm pretty sure the plane crash is the first scene of the actual Volume Four, not the teaser. This way, now that the storyline has been advanced three weeks, it will have been enough time for all the main characters to be captured. - Tristan0709 talk 18:12, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • Are we looking for a "3 weeks ago" episode? :P Bloodbath 18:19, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • I don't depend on them. w/e.. just another person who gets satisfaction from proving that I'm dumb.. haha :) - Mike N. 19:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  • A plane crash? what r u talking about?--Themd 19:43, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • According to spoilers, he volume would end with a cliffhanger involving a plane crash. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:53, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • I heard that season 4 had the plane crash, i think the preview were the heroes were all locked up in orange jumpsuits with blinders on are them on the plane, and something (or someone) causes the plane to crash...(i just hope ots not the "Lost" island lol)...but then again, you can't listen to those spoilers, i mean remeber the spoilers for this season...full of the mysterious Sophie, or Micah and Monica returning in this volume or Adam's 11th wife or all the other stuff...all of it got scrapped! so i say just believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.--Anthony Gooch 00:26, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Please keep spoilers on spoiler pages. --Pierre 04:43, 17 December 2008 (EST)

  • /\ I agree with Pierre, Keep spoiler talk on the spoiler page please. This is current episode discussion. Personally, I don't want to have any idea what is to come and I'm sure others feel the same way. When you come to current episode discussion you aren't expecting to see spoilers for a reason. Why even bring it up here? Cmon people, try to be more respectful to others. --Denali 14:06, 17 December 2008 (EST)
    • Sorry... but I was pretty sure that they said it would happen at the end of volume 3... and it didn't so its not rly a spoiler anymore... am I right? Idk sry if you guys are mad. - Mike N. 15:44, 17 December 2008 (EST)
      • I heard it's going to happen in the forth volume.--Alen76 21:58, 17 December (GMT)
      • Hey Mike, I am not sure, I had no idea about a plane crash. I was referencing the user who started his comment by saying, "According to spoilers..." and the comment below it. --Denali 14:56, 18 December 2008 (EST)
        • Oh okay. - Mike N. 19:09, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Ando/Matt Theory and Possible Future Inclusions of It

My theory is the theory that a person's ability reflects their subconscious. This is backed by Daphne's statement referring to Matt's ability "...You were always worried about what other people thought of you, and now you can read minds." and then her own ability. "I wanted to run. Look what happened." Now if the subconscious desires of a person are integral in the acquisition of an ability then it could be stated that if a person has control over their subconscious or the subconscious of others then they can control the development of abilities. My theory is that, if Matt can affect the subconcious of a person and give them an ability then the magnification by Ando, of Matt's control on a person's subconscious would create an individual with not only a specific ability but an Ability who power is magnified. if the following is true, a whole new class of heroes and villains can be formed. Another piece of this Ando/Matt pairing is the possibility that Matt's amplified power centering around his ability might give him the ability to allow others who already have abilities to become more powerful by adjusting the subconscious. I wonder how the next season will pan out in regards to how Ando's ability paired with others.--Hans Dritten 22:56, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • I guess what I am trying to ask is, "Is there more supporting evidence that gestation of abilities is affected by the subconscious. Is the whole idea of this series revolving around the supposed "Mind/Body" link? I think it would be interesting to map out character's abilities in relation to their psyches {backed by things they have said or what has been said about them}. Like i said before, Daphne's quotes support her and Matt's abilities. At this point i have trouble figuring out where things are headed.--Hans Dritten 23:08, 17 December 2008 (EST)

to move on with your theory. Character/deep desire (sometimes stretching it.)/ resulting power - Peter , compassionate and involved with others, gets emphatic mimicry - Nathan , lots of pressure (job, political, expectations.), gets Flight (to fly away from it all.) - Hiro, looking back alot (sensei legends, his mother he misses.) but also afraid to *grow up*, gets control over time - Sylar, wants to be special.. more special than others, gets an ability that allows him to become more special than others. - Claude, a loner dislikes people and wants to be left alone, ability=invisibility - Nikki, deep desire to be stronger (against her father, her life..) and becoming literally stronger. - Claire, apparently shallow cheerleader (usually meaning afraid to get hurt.) result = invulnerablity - Haitian, prefers keeping his secrets, knowledges and toughts to himself, can control the memory and block powers. - quick learning girl , is going to die young probably eager to learn new things faster, ability to learn new things faster. - Adam, egoistic, the world moves around him, never dies so the world indeed moves and fades around him ;)

To add to the list of desired abilities: - D.L, Was a devoted family man who acquired the ability to phase through walls, this would seem to fall hand in hand with his desire to make his family comfortable IE* He is able to steal to support them financially. - Mohinder, To me, he has always seemed to covet the abilities he's been researching, this becomes especially clear when he derives the incomplete formula and injected himself with it. Since getting his dose of the real formula, it would seem his strength would be related to his desire to be powerful. - Maya, her powers first manifested when she was under great stress and wishing desperately to kill her brother's new wife for caring so little for him. I would say her ability to poison others is probably a direct result of this desire for revenge on alejandros bride. - Bob Bishop, a dedicated founder of the company, perhaps in his youth a man consumed with greed? It would be a reasonable explanation for why he gained alchemy as his ability. - Monica, a young woman who had an intense desire to be more than she was, working at a fast food join, she gains the ability to mimic any action that she sees. Whether this ability is linked to her desire to be more than she is and go to college, or simply a fluke outcome as she was put in a situation where her ability manifested to her advantage, I couldn't say. - Arthur Petrelli, a man so completely obsessed with power that he gained the ability to steal it from other evolved humans. Arthur's intentions have never been hard to see, nor is it difficult to surmise why he gained his ability --User:fourletterfame 15:40:08, 18 February 2009 (EST) so it does add up, however there are a few things to this, as the heroes are born with these powers in their genes, most of these subconscious needs and desires have not developed yet, but the code for their power has. Its also probably unlikely that the above list was intentional to follow Matt's and daphne's theory, nor is it complete coincedence. Its just a matter of good character design I guess. -- --User:Melvindevoor I would also like to add that even though the genetic code is there for the manifestation of their abilities (for those that are born with the gene that is -- or for nathan, niki, tracy and barbara who were given their potential for abilities when they were infants) the specific nature of their abilities doesn't manifest until they are in their teens at least. I guess their desires at the given moment they are given the trigger are conducive to what ability they gain. The only exception to this rule seems to be Micah, who displays a great deal of control over his ability despite his age.

Echo

Anyone else annoyed that he was killed off? And not even with a show down between him and Sylar.

It also seamed a bit pointless making the web shows now as well, I'm hoping hes not real dead. But I doubt it. :(---Drwho113


That's the curse of being an alternate-media character. ;-) Echo only lasted on screen about 30 seconds, but then so did Bridget Bailey. And Gael and Bianca only lasted about 10 seconds each. Have there been any crossover characters from other media that've lasted more than a minute on screen? ;-) Hana at least wasn't killed within the first 30 seconds of her on-screen appearance, but she still didn't spend much more than a minute of time on screen. Are there any crossover chaacters that've really survived the transition? (not counting Maya and Alejandro, even though they technically appeared in the GNs first) --Maelwys 07:16, 17 December 2008 (EST)
Nice point! Thompson was actually a pretty established GN character, with 3 appearances, prior to his first on-screen app. The German enjoyed some time on the series; and then there is Arthur. But besides them - none.... --Pierre 08:01, 17 December 2008 (EST)
Daphne was introduced in a Graphic Novel. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 08:57, 17 December 2008 (EST)
I wouldn't count Daphne or Arthur for the same reason I don't count Maya and Alejandro. They were all conceived as TV characters, even though they were introduced in other ways. I'm not sure about Thompson, he might have actually made the successful crossover. Aside from him though, you're right about the German... I think he sets a new record with about 5 minutes of on-screen appearance before he was killed. He even managed to get out a couple lines! --Maelwys 10:03, 17 December 2008 (EST)
Eric Roberts was cast as Thompson before How Do You Stop an Exploding Man?, Part 2 came out. True crossover characters include Bridget, Echo, Hana, and the German. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:18, 17 December 2008 (EST)

I feel a bit beeter about Echo now lol, but know You mentsion it I was annoyed with the German for the same resons ;-). Its a shame they dident have a show down between him and Sylar though---Drwho113

It really does suck, because there was soooooooooo much potential with Echo. In the last Going Postal webisode Angela made it very clear that there was history between him and her. As for The German... he was in the picture with Dr. Zimmerman and Barbara. I remember Ken saying the writers had a story that goes with that picture, but he's not sure if they would go into it anytime soon if at all. As much as I would love to see Thompson Jr. and Sparrow Redhouse to appear on that show I'm afraid they'll die in the first 10-30 seconds --OutbackZack 15:07, 17 December 2008 (EST)
    • Im hoping Some how he got out, see thory page, But its mainly hope lol.---Drwho113

With Thompson, he was originally referenced in Wireless, Part 3 (or maybe 2). So they had intentions for the character before his introduction. And I believe that a Behind the Eclipse said Sparrow Redhouse was going to appear in Our Father, but hey changed it. Perhaps they thought she had more potential than Sue Landers? - Tristan0709 talk 18:30, 17 December 2008 (EST)

    • I think they're really dropping the ball with these GN/webisode characters. They have so much potential yet they are all wasted in 5-second scenes like this. Radicell 09:17, 18 December 2008 (EST)
      • I see it the opposite way. I think it's cool that they're giving any nod at all to the "expanded universe" characters. As a fan of that stuff, it's fun to see somebody appear and say "hey, that's Bridget! I know her" even if she dies almost immediately. It's especially fun because my wife is a big fan of the show but not familiar with the extra stuff, so then I get to give her a quick background into the history of that 'noname redshirt' (as she sees the person) that just died. --Maelwys 09:56, 18 December 2008 (EST)
  • Speaking of the German, I was actually hoping he'd have a showdown with Elle. Will his magnetic field cause a magnetic force when Elle tries to blast lightning in his presence? --Ciwey 09:32, 18 December 2008 (EST)
    • Well, if X-Men has taught us anything, Magnetism and Electricity are related. That's what Magneto said to Storm when she tried electricuting him in "Enter Magneto" (animated series). Magneto was unaffected by the electricity, if anything, it probably cleared his sinuses, lol. --Denali 13:12, 19 December 2008 (EST)
  • I was just happy to see him. Bloodbath 19:13, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Screencaps.

Can anyone screen cap Nathan's files?--Riddler 15:08, 17 December 2008 (EST)

  • I thought about doing caps, but I was a day late watching the show so I just deleted it off my DVR. Looks like Heroes isn't available OnDemand, so one of the other usual suspects should get on it unless you want to wait for the Blu box set next year :/--Falcomadol 22:04, 17 December 2008 (EST)
    • I have the episode downloaded, I'll try to get some caps tomorrow. --Ricard Desi 12:15, 18 December 2008 (EST)
  • I've done it, its on the link. ----Nathan's files

--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 20:29, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Matt hearing the thoughts of the city

Could anyone catch what some of the thoughts were? I heard something about cancer and someone saying "Shut up!". Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 08:12, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Sylar Killed A Invisibilty Guy Possibly Guy In Alley

I dont know if u heard it but when sylar appeared behind one of the character's i heard the invisibility noise Gabriel Bishop 11:48, 19 December 2008 (EST) Gabriel Bishop

At which point in the show? Choytw -- Talk 12:51, 19 December 2008 (EST)
ehm i cant remember but its when he appeared behind someone i think angela. Gabriel Bishop 13:22, 19 December 2008 (EST) Gabriel Bishop
I'll have to watch it again, hopefully tonight. Choytw -- Talk 15:57, 19 December 2008 (EST)
People were saying it was when he took Claire's hand and she thought it was Angela's. Bloodbath 19:11, 19 December 2008 (EST)
I just watched the scene three times right now, and I can tell for sure, there is no invisibility sound, the only sound there is is the one of Claire opening the door just before Sylar reaches to her. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:48, 20 December 2008 (EST)

wheres daphne?

Where is she on the checklist??? Fred1793 10:01, 20 December 2008 (EST)

Hiros Ability

So is that really it for Hiros space-time manipulation... is there any chance or way for him to regain this ability considering the formula and catalyst are destroyed? Doesn't seem like much chance to me! I would be very dissapointed if this is the end of teleportation. I can understand the writers wanting to get rid of time travel as it seems to have run its course, but to do this by taking away one of the most popular charcters ability is a bit harsh. --Tcscaff 13:27, 20 December 2008 (EST)

  • I mentioned this in the Review & Peter and Formula topics earlier but no one had any ideas to share. But do you think it's possible the formula is able to be extracted from Mohinder/Peter/Ando since they were all direct recipients? I believe they could conceivable use them to create more formula which Hiro needs to inject himself with ASAP! Question for Tcscaff, why do you think time travel seems to have run it's course in the series? I imagine time-travel leads to more possible story arcs... --Denali 10:41, 23 December 2008 (EST)
  • Well, I heard something about "no more time travels for season 4..." you can check the spoilers...--Themd 19:04, 23 December 2008 (EST)
    • There's a reason they're called spoilers, you know. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 19:07, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Primatech guards

Are character pages really necessary for the slain Primatech guards? None of them ever appeared onscreen for more than three seconds, and they weren't even credited. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 14:19, 20 December 2008 (EST)

    • Maybe we can just make one page for all of the guards?--OutbackZack 17:46, 20 December 2008 (EST)
      • We need to think about notability here. I don't think any of them should have a page. Bloodbath 18:14, 20 December 2008 (EST)
        • All characters appear to get pages. --Ricard Desi 18:26, 20 December 2008 (EST)
          • Yeah, but they're not even characters... they're very minor extras. If they had been given speaking roles or had been alive for a relatively brief amount of time, then that would be a different case. But they're dead right off the bat. No credits; nothing. If we create pages for these guys we might as well create pages for everyone that was present in the crowd when Ted Sprague was arrested back in season one. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:32, 20 December 2008 (EST)
            • I think it's also a matter of who is listed in the credits at the end of the episode. Did anyone see if they were credited? --Ricard Desi 18:36, 20 December 2008 (EST)
              • I've already said; they weren't credited. If they were, I'd have no objections. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:37, 20 December 2008 (EST)
                • Bump? Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 09:38, 7 February 2009 (EST)

Terrible Episode - Humans (I hope) aren't that stupid

Why Claire, Noah, Meredith, et al. even try fighting Sylar is beyond me. They would have to be COMPLETELY out of their minds to even try. There's not point in even arming themselves. The man they are up against can stop bullets, make your ears explode by speaking, shoot bolts of lightning, and pretty much can't die. The only semi-intelligent option was to enlist the help of the other's on level 5, but even they failed.

And what's with the writers trying to paint Sylar as scary? He is not frightening to me in the least. What frightens me more than anything else is the notion that the majority of humanity might actually be as irrational as Claire Bennet.--Logic[] 17:39, 20 December 2008 (EST)

Sylar isn't invincible. He can be killed. Like all other regenerators, he has a weak spot. I'm not sure why they're completely out of their minds to try and defend themselves when they actually have a chance, even if it's a very, very small chance, to kill Sylar (seems stupider to just sit there and just ignore that weak spot at the back of his head). Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 17:44, 20 December 2008 (EST)
I never said they shouldn't try to defend themselves; I just said they shouldn't try fighting sylar. They went on the offensive, which, given Sylar's abilities is futile. And yes regenerators have a weakness but Sylar is not going to stand their and let them jab the back of his head. And how they presented his "death" (he's still alive, probably just unconscious and prevented from healing, as had happened to Peter that episode way back) - that was dumb. Sylar has super enhanced hearing (and he has demonstrated it post-shanti virus exposure, in the episode where Noah tried to get the guy who makes blackhole-like portals to kill sylar. And the shanti-virus doesn't remove abilities, it merely suppresses them for the duration of infection. Not listing all the powers sylar has obtained on his main page is not only irrational, but misleading). But anyways, Sylar would definitely be able to hear Claire coming behind him, even if he didn't have his ability; it's not like claire is spiderman.
The most rational course of action that I can think of off the top of my head with the little information of I have pertaining to the environment they were in is:
1. Destroy all camera's and other misc sensors in the immediate vicinity. Sylar needs to be blind to whatever they plan to do.
2. They should have at least one cell phone among them (everyone has a cell phone these days; statistically speaking there is a very good chance they have one on them. Call for help - noah can call for the haitian, or call Nathan Petrelli to get to the haitian's location and fly them both to claire et al's location. They could call Daphne (or matt parkman - detectives have cell phones and angela for one knows that they are "together" and thus likely to be near each other. And if they dont know matt parkman's number, well he's a detective, surely they know generally where he works, they can find his number through directory searching or calling the Police Department he works for.) But anyways, Daphne is really fast, perhaps she could find a way inside the building and jab a piece of glass or whatever into Sylar before he can realize she's there. She should be able to, given that Sylar's reaction times are still only human, and she moves faster than the speed of sound (faster than light if she got a nice little boost from ando) and so he wouldn't be able to hear her coming.
3. Look for quick exits and/or weak spots in the buildings structure to find a way to escape.
4. Tell angela to use her power to see if she can see what going to happen in the relatively-soon future.
5. Drain a bit of claires blood into small packets or whatever is available (cups, mugs, whatever). Give each person one or two for combat use, but being careful not to drain claire too much and render her weak.
6. Negotiate with Sylar and find out what he wants. Try to talk him down.
--Logic[] 18:24, 20 December 2008 (EST)
  • Here goes...
1. Sylar wouldn't suffer too much from not knowing where they are. He aims to break them, not necessarily kill them (or at the very least, get Claire to kill someone).
  • This is irrelevant. The question is not about making Sylar suffer, its about maximizing the chance of survival for Claire et al.--Logic[] 19:58, 20 December 2008 (EST)
2. At no point did anyone have enough time to coordinate something like that.
  • No time for a phone call? That plan took me 10 seconds to formulate. Nathan can fly pretty darn fast, and believe me, Daphne definitely fast. Really, really fast. I don't think she'd have them waiting long, and considering she has been in the same building they were in, she already knows exactly how to get there.--Logic[] 19:58, 20 December 2008 (EST)
Pretty sure they tried the phone in the episode and it was deadified. Sylar has a habit of doing that.--Falcomadol 13:30, 23 December 2008 (EST)
3. Sylar's telekinesis could easily re-block any weak points they try to exploit.
  • Sylar is not omniscient. Without the camera's, he wouldn't know what they were doing exactly, and given amount of time he took to get to Claire's room (after having to deal with all the guards and level 5 people), they would have had a good deal of time to escape had their been some weak point in the structure to exploit.--Logic[] 19:58, 20 December 2008 (EST)
No, but he's proven himself far more stealthy than anyone else on the show. Even without the super hearing ability (lost to the Shanti virus), he's got the mind and abilities of a predator.--Falcomadol 13:30, 23 December 2008 (EST)
I highly doubt there was weak spot anywhere, and finding one would probably be difficult. Assuming this was Sylar's telekinesis I'm sure he would sense something is amiss. But if this was another ability that Sylar has that temporary activated the building's lock-out security system whch would probably a last resort for escapee's I doubt they could escape without disabling Sylar (sinse "killing" him made the building "escapable")--Dman dustin 03:08, 1 January 2009 (EST)
4. Angela, I would assume, would have a hard time falling asleep in such a dangerous situation. Not to mention, it would leave her even more vulnerable than before.
  • Angela's ability to use her ability in demanding situations is debatable, and it is also debatable if she actually has to be fully asleep or even just unconscious. Regardless, she can't be much more vulnerable than she already is, because, as was demonstrated in the episode, it's Angela Sylar wants dead the most. And I doubt he'd let go easily; to die while unconsious / sleeping. He'd wake her up first, for sure.--Logic[] 19:58, 20 December 2008 (EST)
There's also the fact that it wouldn't be very advantageous for Angela to use her ability in this manner. Maybe one decent event could be avoided. But the time Angela has to "sleep", use her ability, and wake up and tell the others what she saw would take too much time for it to be of any use.--Dman dustin 03:08, 1 January 2009 (EST)
5. The blood can't just be poured on, it needs to be injected. Which takes lots of time and a decent amount of equipment they would have to go and operate.
  • This is a facetious assumption, unsupported by our knowledge of Claire's ability and the real-world dynamics of the show, including but not limited to the nature of the physical world and the natural laws of the universe they live in. In order for Claire's blood to be helpful, we can only assume that there needs to be contact between damaged tissue of a patient and Claire's blood. That's all. Pouring blood onto a wound will allow some to be taken in intravenously, even if its not as efficient as an injection. The reason an intravenous injection cannot logically be required for Claire's ability to work is because damaged tissue is not going to have clean pathways that blood can flow through in order to "heal" them. In other words, you HAVE to inject someone in a spot where veins are at least semi-functional - that is, that they allow the blood to flow to the damaged part of the body in order to heal. Pouring blood directly onto damaged tissue is the same thing an injection would do - it would travel down the body until it came to the damaged tissue. It's debatable whether one method is more efficient than the other, but there is no question that pouring Claire's blood directly onto a would have at least some benefit. And given that they probably don't have a bunch of IV units around, it's the best option they have.--Logic[] 19:58, 20 December 2008 (EST)
6. "Some people just want to watch the world burn." Sylar's not interested in negotiation. All he wants is to break them.
  • This is both a false assumption and irrelevant. Sylar is interested in negotiation to some degree, at least with Angela. What do you think he did for the entire last 10 minutes of the episode? He wants to talk to Angela and learn the truth of many things. And while Angela doesn't have much choice in the matter (so it's not much of a "negotiation"), it's a negotiation nonetheless. Perhaps she could withhold information and withstand the torture enough to be spared long enough until Sylar finds out what he wants to know or is dealt with in some other way (rescue arrives, etc).--Logic[] 19:58, 20 December 2008 (EST)
  • I'm only going to respond to this one because I think you're seriously (and excessively) overthinking this. Until she said that she knew who his real parents are, he wanted to know only two things: Is she his mother, and why did she do this to him. After that, he no longer cared, and even grew desperate ("Is there any good in this world?"). Negotiation was not on his mind until she mentioned his parents. --Ricard Desi 11:50, 21 December 2008 (EST)
It's an awfully small step from "are you my parent" to "who are my parents" and it's a chicken and egg issue.--Falcomadol 13:30, 23 December 2008 (EST)
--Ricard Desi 18:30, 20 December 2008 (EST)
    • Also try to note that it's just a television show... the episode would have been even less interesting if the writers made the characters do the most rational things all the time. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:34, 20 December 2008 (EST)
      • And as for Sylar standing there and letting people stab the back of his head... well... he did kind of do that at the end of the episode. It was even worse in season one, when Hiro stabbed him in the chest. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:35, 20 December 2008 (EST)
  • I've already commented on how stupid I think that ending was. :P --Logic[] 19:58, 20 December 2008 (EST)
      • As for your other arguments:
        • "Sylar has super enhanced hearing (and he has demonstrated it post-shanti virus exposure, in the episode where Noah tried to get the guy who makes blackhole-like portals to kill sylar."
          • Don't tell me you wouldn't be even mildly suspicious if the partner who hates you and a criminal with a destructive ability continuously glance over in your direction. Not to mention Noah was speaking pretty loudly. Sylar wasn't terribly far away. He definitely did not use enhanced hearing there.
  • This is a plausible explanation (that Sylar inferred Noah's intentions). While I have my doubts, I agree that this is a strong possibility. I have the episode on my computer and am watching it right now - Noah talks to him just above whisper level. They even show that Sylar cannot hear what they are saying at 31:38 (Sylar is looking at them standing there, you can see Noah's mouth moving but no sound can be heard but crickets in the background). So obviously Sylar didn't hear them (if he doesn't have his power) - after all, look how far away he is: http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2230/vlcsnap7776323uw9.png. But again, perhaps he did infer it. I grant you that.--Logic[] 19:58, 20 December 2008 (EST)
  • Looking at that shot, that is pretty far away... my memory of the episode is rather hazy. But yes, I still stick with the point of Sylar making the inference. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 20:12, 20 December 2008 (EST)
        • "And the shanti-virus doesn't remove abilities, it merely suppresses them for the duration of infection. Not listing all the powers sylar has obtained on his main page is not only irrational, but misleading)."
          • You're not exactly in any position to make those kinds of claims. The writers are, however, and they have stated that Sylar lost his abilities to the Shanti virus.
  • The writers conflict with each other and themselves all the time. Even in this last episode they managed to present a tertiary, conflicting view of time/space manipulation (Daphne going faster than the speed of light and moving back in time is fine, but then seeing herself and walking into herself as she was watching herself see herself. This is a infinite paradox, and physically impossible [at least as far as Newtonian physics is concerned - it gets a little different at the quantum level]). I guess I just wish the writers would be, above all else, consistent. It seems odd to me sylar would lose everything but telekinesis, and why didn't he lose his "base" ability as well? What about the Haitian? He was infected with the virus once and he's fine now...--Logic[] 19:58, 20 December 2008 (EST)
  • I don't think evolved humans ever lose their base ability with the virus, as is the case with the Haitian. However, with Sylar, he had a multitude of abilities, most of which he's only used once or twice, and none of which he was really connected to emotionally. Telekinesis is a different case. As we saw in Villains, Sylar was extremely sorrowful and guilty for killing Brian Davis; he was being empathic. This, coupled with the writers stating that empathy had something to do with Sylar keeping telekinesis, is probably why he kept that ability out of all his stolen abilities. And while it is indeed true that the writers conflict sometimes (just look at all of the timeline inconsistencies, and Daphne walking into herself didn't make sense to me either), they seem to be pretty consistent with maintaining that Sylar has lost his abilities, other than intuitive aptitude and telekinesis. We never saw them at all in this volume, other than in the future. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 20:12, 20 December 2008 (EST)
        • "But anyways, Sylar would definitely be able to hear Claire coming behind him, even if he didn't have his ability; it's not like claire is spiderman."
          • It's possible that Sylar was just caught up in the emotions of the moment and was focusing so much on Angela that he just didn't hear Claire, who, being a cheerleader, would most likely be able to make little, if not no, sound when sneaking up on somebody. Angela's gasping for breath was pretty loud as well. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:41, 20 December 2008 (EST)
  • This is possible. It is difficult for me to see that he would be so riled up as to be completely blind to Ms. cheerleader catwoman entering behind him, but possible nonetheless.--Logic[] 19:58, 20 December 2008 (EST)
  • Wait, cheerleaders automatically gain the sneak feat at level 1? I guess that makes sense, since all Petrellis seem to have Rogue as their favored class. Does Sylar get a reflex saving throw?--Falcomadol 13:35, 23 December 2008 (EST)
Not sure if it was mentioned but I'm Mentioning it now, Sylar no longer has Super hearing (Shanti Virus), so any theories about him being able to hear things would have to be reasonable within normal hearing range. --Dman dustin 02:51, 1 January 2009 (EST)
Never mind --Dman dustin 02:53, 1 January 2009 (EST)

Save the Ando, Save the World

So I've been thinking that Ando=auto-win. Whoever absorbs (Peter) or steals (Sylar) Ando's ability first will automatically become the most powerful of evolved humans, since they'll be able to amplify their own abilities. This seems relatively simple for Peter to do as if he is near Ando he'll absorb his ability, and then be able not only absorb every ability in the city/continent/world, but amplify those abilities as well. So if Ando is protected from Sylar (a la a certain cheerleader), then the world will be in much better shape. Thoughts? Fivos 22:11, 20 December 2008

  • I don't think they would be able to amplify their own abilities. I mean, Ando can't amplify his, right? As for it being used on Peter, I'm hoping that as soon as Ando gets near him he'll become immune to it being used on him, from anyone. If only cus Pete's pretty powerful with his regular EM. --BardinessBoy 22:59, 20 December 2008 (EST)
    • Ability immunity then? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 09:15, 21 December 2008 (EST)
      • Why shouldn't Peter be able to amplify his own abilities? Ando can't amplify his because that doesn't make any sense...how could you amplify your ability to amplify something? Peter and Sylar, who each have multiple abilities, could use Ando's to amplify one of those (i.e. Sylar could amplify his TK or Peter could amplify his flight to Nathan levels). -Fivos
        • I'd be willing to bet that one with this ability cannot amplify themselves, regardless if it's being used for another ability or not. It also seemed to be implied that Ando's ability sends energy from him into another person. You can't really do that to yourself. Though, I wonder now... if Ando was able to come in contact with Adam's ashes, could Adam regenerate? --Ricard Desi 11:51, 21 December 2008 (EST)
          • Wouldn't think so since Adam's ability is completely gone from his body and DNA a la Arthur Petrelli. We don't know if Ando's ability can be used on one's self definitively. That would be up to the writers and the direction they want to pursue. I can see reasonable explanations on both sides of this arguement. --Denali 11:47, 22 December 2008 (EST)
            • If Ando's ability was supercharging but it was used offensively in the future on Hiro, what stops Peter or Sylar from using it in the same manner? However, if Ando acquired the ability without Peter losing Induced Radiation, would the whole country explode if he supercharged Peter? All of his abilities would be amplified at the same time right?--G_Da_Empath 03:59, 23 December 2008 (EST)
            • Ando didn't use it offensivly, Hiro thought he did, also anybody thing, EM + super charge = Every ablity, i think there gona have to make him immune!Fred1793 18:53, 23 December 2008 (EST)
              • I think that if Sylar acquired the ability, he would find some way to incorporate it with his regular palette of abilities to amplify them. Peter would probably only be able to use it in ways he had seen Ando use it. Seems to be consistent with the series logic so far.--Falcomadol 13:37, 23 December 2008 (EST)
  • I'm just wondering if Ando supercharges sylar's ability... how many hunger will he have?--Themd 19:10, 23 December 2008 (EST)
    • Enough to eat a horse. ...BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 12:09, 28 December 2008 (EST)

Good news villain lovers, Arthur Petrelli is not dead

since Arthur stole powers from peter petrelli,he can't die.so I don't understand why it is possible for him to die at that particular episode .the only way that he can die for sure if his head is cut off.let's see in volume 4 what happens?-jayshizzo326 (talk) 14:40, 23 December 2008 (EST)

If there's an obstruction in the brain of a regenerator, they can't regenerate. So Arthur can't regenerate. Sorry, he's dead. For now, at least. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 14:53, 23 December 2008 (EST)
*facepalm* He got a bullet to the brain with his powers suppressed. He's dead. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 15:07, 23 December 2008 (EST)
Capshouting... *sigh*. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:47, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Nathan's List

  • Can we have a article for Nathan's List like we did with Sylar's List and Chandra's List? --Isaac Mendez 08:59, 24 December 2008 (EST)
    • I don't think we need it. It isn't necessarily a list, and we have Nathan's files, because that's what they are.--Citizen 09:06, 24 December 2008 (EST)
      • That's what I was looking for, thanks. :) --Isaac Mendez 15:29, 24 December 2008 (EST)

Two Daphnes.

EveryoneLovesMagicalDaphne.JPG

When Daphne gets supercharged, she goes to the past, and sees herself go into the past. When this happens, in the background of the original view, you can see Daphne watching. When past Daphne teleports and you watch Daphne in the background, you see a second Daphne appear next to her, then the two merge into one Daphne when Matt notices she's there. Production error? Just caught that this morning when I watched it with my dad.--Riddler 02:05, 27 December 2008 (EST)

    • I caught that too. I'm really trying to wrap my head around it and figure out how, given the mechanics of time travel, it could be possible. It couldn't. I'm pretty sure it was a production error. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 11:17, 28 December 2008 (EST)
      • The most likely scenario for me is that they wanted it to look cool, so they defenestrated physics beyond the point of willing suspension of disbelief. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:07, 28 December 2008 (EST)

Why, Meredith, Why?

This was bugging me since the episode aired. Why didn't they just move Meredith into one of the other cells, such as the one Flint was held in further down the corridor, which was fireproof? Only thing I can think of is that she couldn't spare any concentration without exploding, and the others couldn't carry her for obvious reasons. But then, Claire could have...she got to Ted when he was going Hiroshima on them. Cutting corners on writing out a character? --Yamawhata? 21:59, 1 January 2009 (EST)

Maybe Meredith was already in Flint's cell? Additionally, I'm pretty sure that the windows of the cells aren't indestructible (as evidenced by the episode itself), so an explosion of Meredith's nature might have broken the window of any new cell that they moved her to and blew up the flammable part of the building anyway. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:51, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Ok, so Ando and Daphne could travel back in time...

...but how did they travel back forwards? --mc_hammark 16:04, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

the way the earth revolves on its axis. I've seen it on cartoons when I was younger and I think it was on one of the Superman movies. If you go east, (I'm not sure which way the earth rotates but lets say it rotates west) at the speed they are going, they can manipulate time by going that one direction. At the speed they are traveling, they can almost run around the earth and go back a few days, or years, or what not. But then by going west at that speed (remember, I'm not sure which way it actually spins) they can manipulate time by going ahead a few days, or years, or what not. --Iheartheroes 17:24, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

Title

So I know it is called Dual but was also considered to be called Duel. Well the two definitions of these are:

The adjective dual means double or twofold. Duel is a noun or verb referring to a fight or struggle.

So surely this would be called Duel as it has the fight in it between Sylar and the others. Why is it Dual? I can't see the two part other than, I suppose, the fight between Sylar and Doyle (obviously why that pic was chosen to represent the episode). --mc_hammark 18:55, 17 October 2009 (EDT)

  • The name Duality was also used for awhile. Dual was finally chosen, partly because it's a play on words (it means "duality", but it sounds like "duel"). But also because one of the main themes of the episode is that people have two sides to them. Sylar plays with Claire's mind and tries to get her to realize that she is not the wholesome sweet cheerleader she wants to be, but that she's a vengeful and hateful person who would like nothing more than to kill Sylar. The other storyline that reflects the duality of man is over at Pinehearst. The writers play with which "side" Knox, Nathan, Mohinder, and Flint are on, ultimately showing that allegiances are fleeting that that man has more than one side to him. At least that's how I see it. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:32, 18 October 2009 (EDT)
    • Also, the fantastic ending was a representation of the title. Both Primatech and Pinehearst were burnt down, both by pyrokinetics, who happened to be brother and sister. --Radicell 03:45, 18 October 2009 (EDT)