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Episode talk:Lizards

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checklist for Four Months Later...

Checklist for Lizards

checklist for Kindred

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See also current graphic novel checklist

Episode article:

_X_ Episode screencap
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Possible Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Reference

In 1671, Hiro Nakamura in Takezo Kensei's armor disarmed eleven bandits by stopping time. The bandits then drew their bows at Hiro. Hiro mocked them by saying "MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA!" JudgeSpear 05:10, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I liked that part a lot. I'm not familiar with JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, though. How is that a reference? Is it a catchphrase or something? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 06:07, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Refer to Dio Brando on Wikipedia for more info. In a nutshell, Hiro Nakamura and Dio Brando (from Jojo's) can both stop time. Dio has a stand (the supernatural power in Jojo's) called The World, in which Dio stops time, and yells "MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA!" as part of a rapid attack rush. He has a strange shriek "WRYYYYYY!" (pronounced "reeeeeee") vocalized when Dio finishes off his opponent by dropping a steamroller on him. Dio's The World is actually a huge ongoing fad on the internet. JudgeSpear 06:28, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

Powers

Maya's & Alejandro's

I think I'd call Maya's power the death stare o_O--Riddler 21:42, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

  • El Diablo? Harter 22:23, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Tough to say still. Definitely not something with a virus. We'd need a microscope for that.--Bob 22:28, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Whatever it is...it's powerful...Harter 22:32, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Maya's = Tears of Death, or Sadness (these are kind of sarcastic), Alejandro's could be Anti-Mayas power. If we decide the Guatamalen woman has a real power, it should be Diagnosis ---- Ohmyn0.jpgOhmyn0talk.jpg 23:58, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
          • You know, it seems like were finding several people with duplicate powers. Could Alejandro have a version of the Haitian's power nullifying? It obviously demands more concentration, and is not passive as the Haitian's is - but it could be similar. Remember, he's only nullified one other power - his sister's. He might be able to do it to others. ZZ 00:21, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Isn't Maya's power similar to forms of stigmata (with the black eyes and black tears)? According to Wikipedia's article on Maya, she has an unspecified power to cause a fatal disease under stress. JudgeSpear 05:22, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Who says it happens under stress? I think the power causes her stress; her stress doesn't cause the power. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 05:53, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Of interest: The "La Llorona" (pronounced la ya-ROH-na) myth from South America. It is the ghost of a woman who drowned her children that kills children. In some versions of the myth, she cries tears of blood when she kills. http://www.google.com/search?q=La+Llorona+%22tears+of+blood%22 --Urlnotfound 17:28, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
    • That's one of the first things I thought of (helps that I used to live near Woman Hollering Creek). I'd be interested to hear if the legend was maybe an inspiration, but the legend itself is largely concerned with the drowning-your-own-kids-thing (and infanticide by mothers is a recurring theme in myths and legends worldwide--for an excellent discussion of the theme, see the "Monstrous Mothers" chapter of Six Myths of Our Time by Marina Warner, which incidentally I would recommend to any Heroes fan interested in some of the modern mythological strains of Heroes), which doesn't really fit too well. Still, I meant to submit a question to CBR to ask about it, and totally forgot.--Hardvice (talk) 15:13, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Peter's "sparks"

Could Peter's Electromagnetism actually be a variant of Ted's power? It looks a lot like the EMP Ted did.Harter 22:46, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

  • As I recall, it was described as a spark.--Bob 23:47, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Yeah, it is described as electricity by the characters in the episode. While I agree it appeared to be energy blasts, we have to go with how the characters described it (even if we think they are wrong).--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:43, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • It looked to me similar to ball lightning for instance as he projected it. When it hit its target it did look as if it electrified the target momentarily. I believe I saw it arcing across the victim's body briefly. I'm wondering if they wanted to avoid the Sith effect with lightning coming from his fingers or what. (Admin 03:10, 2 October 2007 (EDT))
        • I dunno, I remember how Ted was able to jumpstart a car using his ability. I'm not sure it was lightning/electricity, and I hope someone remembers to ask about this for the next CBR.--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:39, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Yeah, I hope so, too, as I'd like some kind of confirmation... or even to see the other person with this power so we know it's not Ted. However remember that Ted's EMP didn't have any effect on Matt for instance, it just affected the power. Not to mention it seemed like Ted had to focus his power to manage the EMP whereas it seems like little effort for Peter (again not conclusive, but interesting to note) (Admin 03:45, 2 October 2007 (EDT))
          • For the sake of pedantry, I recall Ted not actually jump-starting the car, but merely warming the car up so someone else could start it (which is more in-line with his power). --Unfalln 10:43, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
            • Not that it matters, but yes, Ted warmed the car and then he jumpstarted it. As for the EMP, it didn't affect Matt cause 1) he told Matt to run away so it didn't harm him, 2) he didn't aim the EMP in one direction (he let it disperse spherically throughout the facility). Anyways, EM means electromagnetic so technically electromagnetism is correct. We don't have to make the distinction between bolt and pulse until we know for sure (and not even then).--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:21, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
              • I'm no expert, but I don't think Electromagnetic Pulse would work in the way Peter's "spark" did. It's not much a stretch to assume he's met someone who can generate electricity in the 4 months since the first season ended. ZaneTaylor 17:28, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
                • Check out this video, Zane. It's a cool clip from 1990's TV show Viper, which had the ability to shoot an EM pulse to disable vehicles. Note the electrical shock effect on the boat when it hits and compare that to the Lizards clip. It's very similar.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:44, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
            • On the other hand, Admin, I recall Matt relaying Noah's thought-command: "he says, 'Burn White, not Hot.' Does that make sense?" Could it be that Ted's concentration was to avoid harmful radiation? There is a remote possibility that Peter's "Big Bang" has removed his fear of going nuclear (Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Bomb!) and now when thinking of Ted the ability manifests naturally as electromagnetism instead of Gamma radiation. Not that it's right, but it's an interesting theory and my wife thought it plausible.--NissanVersaDootDoot 17:26, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

CBR - Re: Peter's shiny power (4ML & Lizards)

Just expanded the theory about the power being from Ted. The CBR didn't say anything about whether Ted's power was or wasn't used. They only confirmed that Peter used a power from a female electromagnetic he met during the four months before 4 Months Later.--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:02, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

Lead image

There were a couple of shots of lizards in the episode (sadly, none of Mohinder). I suggest the one in Claire's book at the end of the episode (during the eepy creepy toe scene) rather than the one at the beginning of that bad regeneration animation. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:17, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I'd hate for an actual image of a lizard, but one of Claire attempting to be the "lizard". That is, cutting off the toe. ---- Ohmyn0.jpgOhmyn0talk.jpg 23:56, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Very cool image, but not right for the lead image. :) We try to avoid such spoilery images, especially such graphic ones. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:13, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I'd agree with that. I couldn't watch while she was doing that to herself. I also like the idea of just having a picture of a lizard rather then one of the characters it might represent. --Pinkkeith 13:39, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Since Claire is the most related to the Lizards, I think it should be of her no matter what the image is... ---- Ohmyn0.jpgOhmyn0talk.jpg 01:43, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Or Kensei. Who knew that the title was a subtle clue to having more than one regenerator?--Hardvice (talk) 01:49, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Or Peter. He regenerated too. --DocM 13:34, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Kensei would be far too spoilery, and the episode didn't revolve so much around Peter. Claire would be the best bet. Maybe her in class, learning about Lizards? Or maybe even the teacher with the Lizard on the overhead.--Riddler 18:16, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

Mexican healer

Did she use telepathy? It had the same sound effect.--Bob 23:57, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

Curandera

She's credited as "healer", (well, her daughter is credited as the "healer's daughter") but I have no problems calling her "curandera". In fact, I prefer it. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:29, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Either's fine with me, but maybe "healer" is the better option since a) her daughter was so credited and b) it's probably a more likely search term on an English-language site. I just didn't much care for "Mexican Healer Lady", particularly since she's probably Guatemalan.--Hardvice (talk)
    • My only concern with using "healer" is that it would get confused with Claire and Linderman. I guess a redirect would work. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 05:57, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • From the discussion on Talk:Healing, that's a legitimate concern. People seem to be making the jump from little-h healer to big-H Healer almost as if it's confirmed. I'm glad we don't have a pilot who is described as a "flier", or a stage magician who is described as an "illusionist".--Hardvice (talk) 16:52, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
  • This is also discussed on Talk:Healer. My recommendation is for "curandera" (with Healer redirecting since it's a likely search term) with my explanation on the aforementioned talk page. (Admin 08:52, 3 October 2007 (EDT))

Synopsis

  • Going to work on the synopsis now. Will add it in sections. Should be finished in about two hours. If anyone's already working on a detailed one, leave me a message on my talk page so I know. (Admin 00:33, 2 October 2007 (EDT))
    • I was going to, but my computer didn't record the first part of the episode (erg). I'll help clean up and add links if you want to just get the text up first.--Bob 00:34, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Great, thanks. My first releases are often full of spelling mistakes and can often use changes in case I start repeating "soandso says" a lot. :) (Admin 03:06, 2 October 2007 (EDT))

Mr. Muggles

  • I'm pretty sure Mr. Muggles is barking at West, who is probably flying about 50 ft above Claire, watching her. And Claire will notice him there, eventually...--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:45, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I got that feeling too, that West flew away and only Mr. Muggles knew where to look. The camera panning out towards the sky also helped in giving that affect. --Pinkkeith 13:41, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

The Irish Connection

There are numerous errors in this episode with regard to the Irish. Firstly Caitlin says, "It's bigger than you and a couple of quid." Ireland do not use the word pound, it was called the Punt and would probably never use the slang "quid". Also since 2002 Ireland, along with all the EU except the UK, has used the Euro.

Also where did they get those accents, they are all over the place. I even regonnised some Ulster somewhere.

  • The slang "p's and q's" is still used by the English, and it's from "pints and quarts", which is not in the metric system. What does using the Euro have to do with the episode? As for the accents, it's Hollywood, they're not linguists. To Americans, it sounds Irish, which is apparently good enough for the majority of people who watch the show. I like, for example, that Tuko has more of an English accent than an Irish one. My grandmother is English, and her brother lives in Wales now. He's developed somewhat of a Welsh accent, but you can hear the English in his voice. Since we don't know the character histories, they may not be from Cork.--Bob 14:51, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Firstly, sorry but I forgot to sign the previous post. However, I am English and I live in Wales. What has "Ps and Qs" (without the apostrophies) to do with the word quid? I was just making a point I didn't expect to be flamed! --Grafix 16:19, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I was saying P's and Q's is a slang term used currently that is a reference to the English standard, even though the UK uses the metric system. Just making a point that the metric system's usage doesn't affect slang terms in culture. Didn't mean to "flame" you, just trying to make a point that it's not an "error" as you called it.--Bob 16:34, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Don't worry, Grafix, you weren't being flamed. We just try to be thorough in our answers to make them as helpful as possible. :) (Admin 16:40, 2 October 2007 (EDT))
      • It clearly is an error. 'Quid' is slang term for Pound Sterling, so Caitlin was clearly referring to pounds as though that was the currency of Ireland. The writers obviously forgot that Ireland switched to the Euro. References to Imperial measurements aren't the same, since people still use them despite the UK (and Ireland, which isn't in the UK by the way) being metric ZaneTaylor 17:25, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Regardless of the switch, Caitlin was alive and around before the conversion to Euro. It's not a stretch to think that the phrase she used isn't still just a colloquialism. There's still a bunch of sayings in America that don't apply because they're adapted from England, so it's not completely unreasonable for her to use a phrase that would make sense only a few years ago. She's not giving a dissertation, she's having a conversation, and it's ok if she refers to the previous currency of her country.--Bob 03:13, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Right. And "quid" was a common nickname for the Irish pound (as well as the British pound), which was in circulation until 1999.--Hardvice (talk) 03:30, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
      • UK is still using a mixture of Imperial and metric mesurements, I think there is only us and the US using them now. --Grafix 18:57, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Next you're going to tell me I have to stop calling them "nickels" and start referring to them as "copper-nickel alloy half-dimes" just because the colloquial term doesn't accurately describe the currency. Or that I can't refer to it as a "buck" since $1 USD no longer purchases one full-grown male deerskin. :P--NissanVersaDootDoot 17:40, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

The Box

So, you've woken up in a shipping container. You can't remember anything about yourself, but discover quickly that you regenerate, phase through things, shoot blue hurty stuff out of your hands, can move things with your mind and lay a beating down on a guy. What do you do when someone holds an object that you want over a fire? ... You guessed it: you comply with their demands. ... No. Wait-a-minute! You can grab things with your mind!

Why on Earth would Peter not snatch that thing? -- FissionChips 16:06, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

  • That was a little ... odd. And before anyone chimes in with "Peter's too nice a guy to just take it", remember that as an alternative to just snatching the box (which is full of his stuff, anyway), he will instead be committing crimes with Ricky and friends. I think this falls into the "why did Harry Potter forget he could simply cast (spell X)?" category: because it was necessary for the plot. That still doesn't make it not feel like somebody was asleep at the wheel, however.--Hardvice (talk) 16:14, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Maybe he forgot. Seems consistent enough :) --Bob 16:15, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
    • My thought is that when Peter's lifting up his arm he knows something will be emitted from his hand but not what. He doesn't yet remember how to distinguish TK from radioacitivity/directed EMP (that's what I'm calling it ;)), and he doesn't want to shock him and lose the box. Otherwise, I'd be with you chanting, "Use the force, Peter!" LOL.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:37, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

How can you cut off a toe with regular scissors?

Unless those were somehow the meat cutting kind of scissors, it seems physically impossible to cut a toe off with them. You can't even cut through the skin with regular scissors, its beyond rediculous to think you could slice through bone and muscle. Although this is obviously fiction, it still bugs me a bit. :p

---Katgirl21 16:54, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

  • You seem to know a lot about dismemberment. *Backs away slowly* =P You could tell Claire was trying really hard to cut it off and the pinky toe isn't exactly very strong. Any way it goes, it was a very gross and awesome moment. --AvadaNella 16:58, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
  • I kinda thought the same thing. When she started eyeballing them, I was all "oh honey, no, not with those shears." I mean, I just think about how mad my mom used to get when I'd cut paper with her sewing scissors. And then I rapidly suspended my disbelief.--Hardvice (talk) 17:18, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Yeah, it was a very gross moment. I think it definately surpasses the moment on Kid Nation when they chopped off a live chicken head. I'm glad that in this case (Heroes), they backed up a bit and didn't show the actual sheering until it flew off.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:22, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
  • On this topic, do you think the dismembered toe will grow a new Claire!?
    • Not unless Claire's toe has a brain that allows it to regenerate. =P But I'll admit, that would be insane and pretty sweet. --AvadaNella 21:19, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • No, I don't think it would regenerate a new Claire, either. Can anyone check if her toe grew a new toenail and that it appeared painted just like it was originally? I forgot to check that closely when I first watched it.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:54, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
        • The new toenail was unpainted. I made a point of noting that, because I thought it would make good trivia if they'd messed up.--Hardvice (talk) 21:59, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
          • If her toe could regenerate a whole new Claire, she'll be like Tomie who can regenerate like Claire, but if a part of her gets separated from the body; eg. a finger or even blood, a new Tomie is produced. creepy huh?--Ralphizzle (talk) 12:20, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
  • I think their choice to use cutting shears had to do with when she put her hand in a garbage disposal last season. There was some talk from the company that makes the disposal that it couldn't happen. Later, although it hasn't been publizied, they retracted their statement. I think NBC wanted to do something that clearly didn't look possible and avoid such law suits. --Pinkkeith 11:54, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

New Series of Paintings

I've been working on the Story Development section and I can't for the life of me figure out a good name for the series of paintings that Noah mentions. Nothing rolls off the tongue like Invisibility Series. Help? D: --AvadaNella 20:58, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Thank goodness we'll be learning more about them in upcoming episodes (and thank goodness Tim Sale is still with us!)...I don't think we need to name them quite yet, though "Series of Eight" would be the only thing I could see as of now. I'd hold off, personally. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:04, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I know, I'm so glad Tim Sale's still with the show! This hooded killer storyline is my favorite of the season and having some paintings involved in it makes it all the better. Series of Eight does sound awesome; it reminds me of "pieces of eight." XD Thanks, Ryan! --AvadaNella 21:09, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I also like Series of Eight. I was going to alternately suggest Isaac's Final Eight or The Final Series, but Isaac painted the series of him dying to Sylar last (as far as I can tell) and Peter or another Precognitor could begin painting further series, so I think So8 works. It even has convenient shorthand!--NissanVersaDootDoot 17:45, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I agree. We probably don't strictly speaking need an article for them yet, until we've seen a few more, but it certainly can't hurt, and "Series of Eight" is a fine title for now. We can always move it later if a better title comes along (me, I'm pushing for "The Company Pwned (series)").--Hardvice (talk) 17:51, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

Commentary

  • Lots of neat stuff in the commentary this week. They talk about Maya and Alejandro's powers a bit. Grunberg gives away a couple upcoming scenes he's filmed, as usual. One neat point I didn't catch when I watched the episode: Allan Arkush states that Angela's attacker "wasn't really there". Hmm, I assumed he'd just vanished somehow. Interesting. Anyway, it's definitely worth a watch--or check out the highlights on the episode commentary page.--Hardvice (talk) 03:06, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Cool. More fodder for my theory about Angela. :)--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:32, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
    • The attacker "wasn't really there". Astral projection anyone? --Looky 19:40, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

This season's bad guy

The way Angela Petrelli was attacked at the police station gives us some clues to who the hooded killer is. It seems he must possess multiple powers. A single power would not allow someone to survive a fall, cut off electricity, and remain invisible. Either he's an empath or someone like Sylar. Since this season's name is "Generations," I think it's a safe bet that he's the father of one of the existing characters. I'll go out on a limb and guess [drum roll] Sylar's father. It was him who dragged Sylar's body away. Now he's out to seek revenge on those responsible for his son's death. -- 23:22, 4 October 2007 Borowki

  • Signed it for you. Umm, from the previews, I'm pretty sure Sylar ain't croaked yet.--NissanVersaDootDoot 22:40, 4 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Thanks. I doubt the show's producers would bring back the exact same Sylar. Simply saying that he didn't die would be too lame. That's why I'm guessing that the plot has something to do with his dad. --Borowki 04:33, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

McSorley, Jr., and Pal

Once Again...

Whoa...It's been a while since people have wrote on this page, but please can we change the Main Image to a picture of Claire or another regenerator. It seems sorta weird to have a picture of a literal lizard that was hardly shown in the episode, when we can have a picture of a metaphorical lizard (Claire etc...)that is shown a LOT. So, to sum up, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE can we change the image?--Hiroman 15:38, 8 November 2009 (EST)

  • I don't see anything wrong with having a picture of the real-life regenerators Claire learned about. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:59, 8 November 2009 (EST)
    • No disrespect, but the "PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE" is starting to get old, this isn't the first time you do this. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:23, 8 November 2009 (EST)

Continuity Error

Simple, but i thought i'd mention it. I noticed a goof when Kensei "died". Before Hiro pulls out one of the arrows, there's a lot of blood on his neck. When he "revives" himself, there's blood missing. I know it's tiny, but i thought it could go in the Trivia section? Speighticus 14:36, 10 August 2011 (EDT)