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Episode talk:Fight or Flight

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checklist for The Kindness of Strangers

Checklist for Fight or Flight

checklist for The Line

New episode checklist

See also current graphic novel checklist

Episode article:

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_X_ Lesli Glatter
_X_ Joy Blake
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_X_ Lisa Lackey

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Alternative Viewing?

Due to the fires in Southern California, much of the national programming has been pre-empted. Does anyone know of an alternate way to watch tonight's episode in case KNBC does not air Heroes tonight? Thanks much! Disney42 10:56, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

  • If you click on the first image at the bottom left under Heroes Merchandise it will take you to Amazon Unbox where they allow you to purchase any episode for $1.99 if you're interested in that route. I don't know how soon they show up there after it airs, but I recall it being fairly quick in the past. Is NBC not releasing the most recent episode on their website anymore? (Admin 11:57, 22 October 2007 (EDT))
    • They do but does anyone know how fast that gets released? Rayhond 12:03, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
      • puts it up on their website normally the next day after the show airs. Amazon Unbox varies.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:01, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
      • If you still miss it completely, G4 will be reairing the episode on November 3rd (insert shameless plug for The Post Show at 11 pm here). -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:24, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Netflix has Heroes in their Watch Instantly section. Season Two, too; not just what had been released on DVD! Episode 202 took two days to post. Others I saw the day after and might have been posted the night of the original airing if the Netflix commercial breaks during the show were to be believed. The quality of the streaming movie is much better via Netflix (smooth, uninterrupted video at a full 800x600 screen) than with NBC (choppy video even at small sizes with commercial breaks and the frequent A/V glitches). --FissionChips 15:57, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
          • If you have a Netflix account, the Netflix ones are the way to go. Full 720p, no commercials or ads, no watermarks, credits still intact. If you dig around on the Internet, you can find ways to download these to your harddrive, which will help with any connection problems.--Hardvice (talk) 03:53, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Did it end up airing or get preempted? (Admin 01:57, 23 October 2007 (EDT))
    • It aired at the normal time. I live in Fullerton --Tm1000 00:51, 24 October 2007 (EDT)


I was just diagnosed with Lyme disease (damned dirty ticks!), and am finding it increasingly difficult to stay up late. I will not be available for editing very much tonight, and will probably decrease my load quite considerably for the next two weeks while I'm on antibiotics and dealing with overwhelming fatigue. :( -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:26, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Sorry to hear man. Damn ticks indeed.--Bob (talk) 14:38, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
    • A big blue Tick would be preferable to the little brown tick that infected me. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:48, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Aww man, that sucks. :( --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 15:14, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Oh man, that stinks bigtime. I hope you don't have to cancel with G4. My prayers are with you. Take care of yourself, dude, and get some well-deserved rest.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:20, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Thanks, that means a lot. I'm not planning on canceling with G4; I'm still working and living my life normally, I'm just cutting back while I'm on antibiotics. I just know that I'm going to want to go straight to sleep after tonight's episode (though I think I might check in for a few moments first). -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:51, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Lay back, enjoy the episode, relax - we got things here until you're feeling better. est Wishes, ZZ 21:48, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
  • How absolutely awful. Get some rest and recover. Geez-I know what you're supposed to do when life gives you lemons, but what do you do when life gives you Lyme's?--Hardvice (talk) 23:20, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
    • You make Sprite instead of lemonade? Heh. Seriously, get well soon.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:52, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Thanks guys. I'm taking it easy and relaxing, just waiting until the antibiotics do their trick. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:46, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Hope ya get back to 100% soon. I'll hafta tell Kurt about your run-in... 'ROESian
    • So how's the treatment going? Are you cured? --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 14:57, 11 January 2008 (EST)
      • Oh yes, completely. I was pretty wiped out for about two weeks, and was on antibiotics the whole time. Because I caught it so early, there are no lasting effects, and I'm all better now. Thanks for asking. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:42, 11 January 2008 (EST)


  • I can do it.--Bob (talk) 20:55, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Ok. I was impressed last week by how quickly it was up after the episode finished. :) (Admin 20:57, 22 October 2007 (EDT))
      • Gotta get it up fast before people flood it with edits and it takes forever to clean up. Goin to bed now.--Bob (talk) 01:47, 23 October 2007 (EDT)


I'd personally not use that name until they say it in the show, just in case. I mean, refer to her in any articles by that name.--Riddler 21:16, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Alright, they never used her name in the episode. "Company Blonde" for now, maybe?--Riddler 22:01, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
    • There's nothing wrong with using the name Elle. It's in tons of spoilers and has been on NBC's site for weeks now. The name itself is not a spoiler. See here for a deeper discussion on the issue. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:20, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Yeah, I'd lean towards something like "[[Elle|Company agent]]" in the synopsis. "Elle " is perfectly fine for her article, but it would be confusing in the synopsis since her name wasn't mentioned. As an aside, I hate referring to women by their hair color. It always strikes me as incredibly sexist. You never hear anybody refer to Chuck Norris as a "fit-bodied blonde" or to Kobe Bryant as a "leggy brunette". There are several more important ways to describe her character rather than resorting to her appearance.--Hardvice (talk) 23:18, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Is Elle a minor or supporting character? Rayhond 11:37, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

Muscle Mimicry

I love it!--Riddler 21:36, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I'm noticing people are labeling the article "Muscle Mimic" - Micah said "She is a muscle mimic, a copycat." - The ability would be Muscle(or Muscular) Mimicry, and Monica would be a Muscle Mimic or a Copycat.--Riddler 21:38, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Copycat would more appropriate, they both use that name multiple times. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/22/2007 21:41 (EST)
      • Not as the name of the power, but as a name for what she is. Peter is an empath, Isaac was a precog, Linderman was a healer... Monica is a copycat... or a Muscle Mimic. The power is Muscle(muscular) mimicry.--Riddler 21:44, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
        • I liked Photographic Reflexes better.--Piemanmoo 01:41, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
          • And I prefer Ocular Mimicry to any of them. She has to SEE it to do it. Peter has to feel it to do it, but he still uses his muscles to do what he feels. Otherwise you could call his ability Muscle Mimicry too. When she starts exhibiting the powers of Micah and others, you'll see why you can't just call it Muscle Mimicry. She observes something with her eyes, it's processed in her head, and she acts it out with her body. -ZachsMind 04:36, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
            • And I prefer almost any other name to induced radioactivity. But canon sources trump our own "better" descriptions. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:47, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
              • Yeah, if it's been said on the show we can't rename them. ZachsMind, that's absolute speculation, you can't say when unless you know it's gonna happen, say if. Also Muscle Mimicry is perfect, she mimics muscle actions. It's simple. --SomeoneImportant 14:34, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
            • Incidentally, the writers confirmed that she can only replicate actions she's physically capable of doing, not superpowers, in the last "Behind the Eclipse".--Hardvice (talk) 02:51, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Lead Image?

I suggest an image of the two Nathans facing each other. It exemplifies the episode title quite well. -- Paronine 22:09 22 October 2007 (EDT)

  • A bit spoilery, I'd say. But I can't suggest anything that would fit this one. MAYBE Monica practicing some Jet Li (I think it was him... I didn't take much notice though) stuff.--Riddler 22:12, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I thought it was Bruce Lee. I think Monica is deserving of being in the lead image. But I don't have any strong opinions one way or another. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:19, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
      • What picture best fits with the name 'Fight or Flight'? If there isn't a very clear one, (and I can't think of one), then the most memorable and most dramatic think that occurred in this epi was the debut of 'The Nightmare Man', and a picture of Mr. Parkman should get the nod. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/22/2007 23:07 (EST)
        • See, that to me is spoilery. Nathan facing his darker self on the Deveaux rooftop reveals a piece of the episode and borders on spoilery, but it a) doesn't really give much away, b) exemplifies the episode title, and c) was the climactic moment of the episode. It still gets my vote. -- Paronine 23:11, 22 October 2007
          • My first choice would be Peter and Ricky talking... After all, Ricky died in this episode cause Peter fled leaving Ricky to face Elle by himself. Also, it's not at all spoilery. My second choice is Mohinder arriving at Monica's house. I kept wondering if Monica was going to go all Bruce Lee on him... and she still may. LOL.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:14, 22 October 2007 (EDT)


  • Just noting that both David Anders and Kristen Bell were credited as regulars this episode. Hmm.--Hardvice (talk) 00:40, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
    • And this is the FIRST episode that did not include Hayden Panettiere. - Random guy 01:14, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Can we really sat that this is the first episode to not feature Claire Bennet, since technically Five Years Gone also didn't feature her, but instead Future Claire?Random guy 21:04, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Nobody said this is the first episode that doesn't feature Claire. It's the first episode that doesn't feature Hayden Panettiere. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:11, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Yeah I know that - It is on the page. Random guy 21:16, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Actually, I'm saying this is the first episode that doesn't feature Claire. :) Claire was in every other episode. It doesn't matter if it's her in the present, future, or the past... she's still Claire. (Admin 21:24, 23 October 2007 (EDT))
            • Well it is quite confusing when you look at the character apearances pages, and she was not in Five Years Gone. --Random guy 21:27, October 23, 2007
              • A side-effect of us distinguishing between different versions of people. Not sure the best way to fix it or whether it's best to not keep a separate count for the "future" characters... or add both a character and their future self to the list anytime their future self is shown. As far as any trivia is concerned, however, Claire and Hayden were both in every episode until this one. (Admin 00:22, 24 October 2007 (EDT))


  • I believe the movie Monica was watching and um - muscle mimicking? - Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story, starring Jason Lee. I'm not so sure I'm right though 'til I get my copy from Netflix. Anyone has one they could check now? --Wiredfu 08:26, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
    • It's a Bruce Lee story, it should star Bruce Lee, not Jason Lee. Chrisyu357 10:41, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
      • The Bruce Lee Story is a movie about Bruce Lee, not a Bruce Lee movie.--Hardvice (talk) 12:50, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
        • I'm not talking about "My Name is Earl" Jason Lee, now. I'm pretty sure it's Jason Scott Lee. I've seen enough Bruce Lee movies in my time to know the difference. I could be wrong, of course. --Wiredfu 14:42, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Its definately that movie, and it definately stars Jason Scott Lee. Its actually pretty good, i remember viewing it originally. And btw, I don't think Lauren Holly has ever been finer than in that, gotta love a redhead. --HandsOffMyPeter 17:26, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

Janice... does her appearance count?

The topic speak for itself. Chrisyu357 10:41, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

  • No more than Simone's "appearance" in Parasite or Ms. Baker's inclusion as a separate character. It can be noted, but she should not be listed on appearances page. Likewise, Nathan did not visit Charles Deveaux's rooftop in this episode (or in any episode yet). -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:23, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Simone IS listed in the appearances for Parasite ... Besides, I think we should include Janice, as the appearances page gives an idea of the # of episode an ACTOR appeared in (comes in handy sometimes) just my opinion though ... --LeoChris 16:34, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Simone is listed because actually does appear--her body is lying right there on the bed. But when she talks to the detective and teases Isaac, that's not Simone--it's Candice. As for using the list of character appearances by episode as a reference for actor appearances, I'd much use it as a list of when a character appears, not when an actor appears. However, I think having a second page of appearances focusing on the cast is not a bad idea. See here for a further discussion on the idea. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:18, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

Power Heredity

I believe Maury and Matt are our first example of an evolved child having a similar, much less the same, power as the evolved parent. --FissionChips 10:46, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Possibly, though much is still unclear about Maury's power. I'm not even sure I would say they are related powers. I should also point out that in the lastest Behind the Eclipse, the point was raised that it family members having similar abilities is not a guaranteed thing. To quote Joe and Aron, "There is never any automatic in genetics." -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:27, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Much unknown, very true. How much of Maury's "you've got it, too" can be believed, indeed. As we learn more about Maury, maybe this will be trivia worthy, but probably nothing that shapes the definition of powers or anything. --FissionChips 12:05, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I realize we can't be sure of anything in Heroes, but their having similar powers is so different from the rest of the evolved families that it hints to me Matt may be adopted...--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:56, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Boy i hope this trend doesn't continue and we don't fall into a Luke and Leia thing with Claire and West. Much is unknown about Nathan's past, and he has shown a proclivity for unfit parenting and abandonment. I give a big finger wag to incest in my fav show, I already have to deal with it in my fav movie BTTF. --HandsOffMyPeter 17:18, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

Did Maury Parkman kill Kaito?

A very teasing episode. Is Maury Parkman the hunter or hunted? His power does offer a plausible explanation of Kaito's death: Maury projects a nightmare of him being attacked by one of the twelve, the person whom he trusted most, and he falls over in reaction. I don't have access to Four Months Later, so I can't check whether Ando actually saw the hooded man. Borowki 16:15, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Ando did see the hooded man because he said so in Kindred when Matt was interrogating him. Random guy 16:31, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Who's to say that he didn't put Ando in the nightmare, too? I like this theory. =D --AvadaNella 16:49, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Nah, that's stretching it too far. Come to think of it, his power doesn't explain how power got cut at the police station either. Hmmm... Why would he have both a picture of himself and Bob with the sign? Maybe Maury is actually out to save the others from the real killer by sending them warnings? Borowki 17:13, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Again notice that Nathan somehow is always present near a threat.... Random guy 17:52, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Hmmm, if Nathan is the threat, then it's understandable how Maury would make a run for it. He's probably powerful enough to see into someone's sub-conscious, whereas his son can only read conscious thoughts. Borowki 18:08, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Nathan is such a scarlet fish. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:21, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
            • Yeah, I agree, but it is still interesting to note... for now. Random guy 20:45, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
    • About Maury having Bob's death threat. My roommate and I were pondering over this. Either a) Maury is the killer, b) Bob visited Maury after getting his, or c) there isn't just one killer, but many more. My two cents.--Bob (talk) 02:15, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
      • If Maury is the killer, it's possible (though unlikely) that there only ever was Bob's death threat, and he just used his power to make it look like it was him. I hope not ... that's treading far too close to illusion. Personally, I like his power better if he's just telepathically triggering the nightmares, not controlling them. The latter seems to make Candice's power a bit superfluous.--Hardvice (talk) 02:57, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Triggering nightmares seems to be the thing I was reffering to earlier. Perhaps he simply brings up their worst nightmare and doesn't necessarily alter it.--Bob (talk) 05:10, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
        • If Maury has the power of illusion, that'd explain why the producers would decide to kill off Candice. Having two illusionists is too confusing. Doesn't really jibe with what happened in the episode though. His power seems to require darkness to work.--Borowki 12:19, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Prison guard backwards speech

In the prison scenes with Parkman, his guard says a few things to him which are reversed

Matt:  Dad!  Hey whats going on?!
Guard: You know the drill Parkman; hands against the wall!
M: Hey what the hell's going on?  Where am I?!
G: You abandoned your kid.  You're a dead beat, and now you're gonna pay.

Later when the guard says "no one is supposed to be here" the same line reversed and mixed with the original so that when reversed they sound identical.

Not sure where this info should go so it's here for now. I'll make some OGG files too --Frantik (Talk) 02:09, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I was able to translate a small portion of it on Talk:Maury Parkman, but this is much more complete. Nicely done. It'd be great if this could be incorporated into the Notes section. (Admin 02:12, 24 October 2007 (EDT))
    • Hear the reversed audio in context --Frantik (Talk) 02:59, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
      • That is outstanding! Not only did you re-reverse the audio, but you re-integrated it into the original dialog. How did you do it?--E rowe 13:00, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
        • All I did was record the entire segment, then selected only the guard talking and reversed those portions :) --Frantik (Talk) 16:22, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
          • I've added this to the Trivia section --DismantleRepair 01:16, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

9 Image

There's a perfect shot of the number 9 on Maury's apartment door. It would make a great main image for our article on 9. Right after Maury leaves the camera zooms all the way in to the 9. It's at 19:18 on the video. But those of you with Tivo's may be able to get a better screencap. Can anyone upload that?--E rowe 16:15, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Is this what you want? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:41, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Not exactly. This one is what we have for the main image on that article right now. I think it's from the prior episode in Molly's dream. But the one in Fight or Flight after Maury leaves the apartment zooms in much farther. This current shot also doesn't show the 9 as clearly because of the shadow. The new one, when it is zoomed all the way in is prominently focused just on the number 9, in a way that seems like the director wants the audience to see some significance in the number, which is why I think it would be so ideal for the 9 article.--E rowe 16:07, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I reuploaded it with the new image from Fight or Flight. Check it now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:31, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Perfect. That's about as appropriate of a picture for an article on the number 9 as there can be.--E rowe 20:51, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

Summary in AOTW?

  • Didn't we used to include the bulleted summary on the AOTW?--Hardvice (talk) 01:58, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Yes, yes we did. And I found it had a lot more value than the Mohinderlogues. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 09:32, 28 October 2007 (EDT)