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Talk:Tracy Strauss/Archive 2

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Tracy was not in An Invisible Thread

  • Sorry all that i don't have time to help update but I can tell you guys this much. Barbara is most likely the woman near the end of the ep. In Chapter 12 of iStory a fugitive named Barbara can control water. This most likely is Tracy/Niki's sister and the woman at the end of An Invisible Thread. Shoyru1177 19:14, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • And yet it was Tracy in the show. Sorry. --Action Figure 19:15, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • How do you know? What is your source? Shoyru1177 19:24, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Yeah, no confirmation that the two Barbara's are the same person. Also, water mimicry has not been shown to be able to actually throw water, which is what the Barbara from The Agent is able to do. Saying they are the same person is pure speculation right now. --Crazylicious 19:32, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Actually, we don't know what Barbara from the Agent did. She could have thrown the water or have become the water. We don't know. All we know is that Rachel suddenly found herself and Janey temporarily underwater after someone yelled at Barbara not to do something. At least, that's what I read.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:40, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Oops. Thanx guys for correcting my mistakes I just found out that it is( spoiler link removed) Tracy. Shoyru1177 19:54, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • That there's a spoiler, Shoyru. We try to keep them out of all non-spoiler pages. --Crazylicious 19:56, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Right, though the spoilers aren't exactly clear. They suggest it's Tracy in An Invisible Thread, but none come right out and say it's Tracy that appears.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:09, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
        • WHAT?! Then when else does she appear? This is ludicrous! --Action Figure 21:17, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
          • It's clear MiamiVolts just has a Barbara fetish. Which is odd considering they are protrayed by the same actress, and Barbara has virtually no character development. Oh well. -Barbedknives (talk)21:22, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

MORE ABSOLUTE PROOF IT WAS TRACY

RIGHT HERE. Read all the way at the bottom of the article. Bryan Fuller states that when Ali Larter returns, it will be in the finale and NOT as Barbara. Ah-thank you --Action Figure 21:42, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Someone please start editing these articles accordingly. Why wait till next season and leave incorrect info on the site when we KNOW now the truth? They shall all laugh at this when next season rolls around. --Action Figure 21:44, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • In case you're too lazy to read a link- "Will Ali be playing Barbara when she returns? "No," says Bryan. Can melted, shattered Tracy really come back together? "Watch the finale," replies Bryan. Mark your calendars, kids." boom. --Action Figure 21:46, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Getting uptight about receiving credit for being right on a wiki post will do you no good. If you're right, people will ignore you and correct it when it becomes apparent. If you're wrong, people will think you're being a jackass. I know it sucks not getting recognized for your contributions, but that's just the nature of wiki's. Generally the people with more time on their hands to edit leave the most impact on the final product, even if they were wrong, because they will always try to get the last edit in. My advice would be to just wait till it's revealed, then triumphantly yell "CALLED IT!!" in all capz dawg. -Barbedknives (talk)21:57, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • LOL. Yeah, problem is I dont care about the credit, I care if its right. And its ridiculous at this point to say it is anything BUT Tracy. Miami's a patroller though, so hes gonna undo any edits on this he currently disagrees with anyway. (That isnt the diss it sounds like, i simply mean thats the nature of these damn wikis. :) ) --Action Figure 22:11, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • No, for the record, I just want there to be consensus if we are going to use interview information in this manner. Ted commented above that it was speculative to assign the ability to Tracy or Barbara. I agree that it is at least partly speculative, but after seeing the cast commentary, I said I wouldn't oppose. Ted hasn't changed his mind, though, so no consensus. Also, Ryan mentioned on his talk page he agrees with leaving it ambiguous for now.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:39, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

It doesn't matter. It's a spoiler, and spoilers don't belong on the main pages. From the tv shows POV, it's one of the triplets. It never stated whether it was Tracy or Barbara. --Crazyaspie 22:42, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Just FYI, it's a spoiler for last night's episode, which means it's technically no longer a spoiler. I'm not sure how we handle that here, so I'm not going to say anything further. But just thought you should know. -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 22:43, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Tell me where in the episode they said "Tracy", even in the credits, and I'll recant. --Crazyaspie 22:45, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Why does that really matter? The writers have already stated that it's Tracy. Even if the show itself didn't say it, it is undeniably Tracy. -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 22:51, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Because the main pages are in universe information. It doesn't matter if a million people knew Peter survived the bomb because it was spoiled, you don't add that to the main pages until it's confirmed IN UNIVERSE. --Crazyaspie 22:53, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
          • The main pages are definitely not all in-universe information. I would have to say that content from interviews and the like make up about 20% of the site's information. Peter surviving the bomb is a different story. The spoilers saying that he would survive were for Four Months Later.... The spoilers were instantly nullified once the episode aired, because it was no longer a spoiler. You can't really make a comparison because the spoiler and the revelation did not coincide to two different episodes; they coincided to the same episode. However, the spoilers saying that Tracy would return are no longer spoilers. At this point, they could be considered as reliable secondary sources, NOT spoilers because the episode in question has ALREADY AIRED. -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 22:58, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
            • The episode has already aired, but no where in the episode did it say it was Tracy. No where. To me, that still counts as a spoiler. Just like when Peter exploded and survived. We knew he survived. The creators told us he survived, and that Milo would be returning. There is no difference. We've seen Ali Larter in the show, but there is still no in universe proof that it was Tracey and not somebody else. --Crazyaspie 23:02, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Yeah, not a spoiler, and totally accurate. Why deny what those who make the show say? What crazy warped logic is that? --Action Figure 22:46, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • The braintardedology that is 'precident' and 'sock consensus' -Barbedknives (talk)22:49, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Actually, it's called professionalism and following the rules. Excuse me, but when I signed up for this site I thought it would have a little more respect for both. --Crazyaspie 22:53, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Actually, it is a spoiler. --Crazyaspie 22:53, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Sorry if I was rude. I just personally don't see why it is valuable to not use every bit of evidence and information we are given to form conclusions. I don't care about spoilers, but some people do. This being a Wiki I try to abide by the guidelines, but that doesn't mean I agree with all of them.
The fact that if enough people agree with technically incorrect or biased information ::even in light of contradictory evidence will form the general consensus and silence any ::opposing viewpoints also doesn't help. However, this is a problem of all wikis, so ::Heroes Wiki is not particularly to blame. -Barbedknives (talk)23:02, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
True. And rather than just go back and forth on this... what MAKES it a spoiler, pray tell? --Action Figure 23:37, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
The fact that it's only been confirmed behind the scenes. --Crazyaspie 00:37, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Are they still gonna do any BTE's or do we have to wait until next season? I think a very nice question to ask the Heroes team would be "Who was Ali Larter portraying in the Volume 5 teaser at the end of An Invisible Thread? Was it a coincidence that a woman named "Barbara" (the name of Tracy's sister) was able to control water in the iStory?"--Riddler 23:57, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
    • No more until next season. Doesnt matter anyway, if all of this evidence wont convince them, then one more wont either. --Action Figure 00:05, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
    • I think you should send your question in anyways, but according to today's release, which I just now found, Action Figure is right that there will not be a new BTE until next season. It's conceivable, though, that they will do an annual summer spectacular like they did the prior seasons, and they mentioned at the end of the article " For the “Heroes” faithful, keep your eyes scanning the skies and CBR News as you never know when you might catch a chance to go BEHIND THE ECLIPSE!".--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:14, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
      • In case anyone can't find it, here's the link. In the introduction at the beginning of this issue, it says "In last night's episode of "Heroes"...<clip> Tracy's back!"... that's confirmation enough for me. Is it enough for crazyasapie, Ryan, and Ted? I guess we'll wait for them to comment.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:32, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
        • For the record, I know it's Tracy. That doesn't mean we have to put it on the main page. I'm still sticking with my guns: unless Tracy was listed in the credits or there was confirmation on the show that it was Tracy, because of the history of her character and the fact that she has another triplet somewhere IT SHOULD BE KEPT VAGUE. --Crazyaspie 00:37, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
  • I understand there was not direct confirmation in the show, but as many people have said, it would be fairly obvious to a viewer unfamiliar with the spoilers that it was Tracy anyway - Barbara would have no reason for killing Building 26 agents, wheras Tracy clearly would (who knows what they did to her in that building?). Barbara also has (presumably) no idea who Tracy is either, so again there is no reason for her to act in such a way. --Joe120560 10:21, 29 April 2009 (EDT)


  • Alright, hang on a moment. Let's line up what we know as in-story and spoiler information:

Evidence for Tracy

  • Tracy Strauss has a freezing ability.
  • Tracy was captured and tortured by the agents of Building 26.
  • Tracy claims she's "been working up one hell of a cold snap", implying that the torture allowed her to make her ability significantly stronger.
  • At the end of Cold Snap, Tracy froze a parking garage so quickly and so thoroughly that she herself turned to ice.
  • Emile Danko shoots the frozen Tracy, who shatters.
  • One fragment blinks, long after being shattered.
  • The fragments began melting over an open storm drain.
  • A woman who looks like Tracy has a water mimicry ability.
  • This woman has been systematically hunting and killing former Building 26 agents.
  • This alone would lead me to believe this is Tracy.

Evidence for Barbara

  • Tracy has been presumed dead.
  • A photo of Barbara in Dr. Zimmerman's home shows that she looks exactly like Tracy.
  • Dr. Zimmerman informed Tracy that Barbara was her identical triplet.
  • The woman who appeared in Harper's apartment was not named.
    • Characters aren't always going to say their names or have it displayed on screen with every appearance. Especially when its the surprise return of a character thought to be dead.
  • The woman who appeared has an ability similar to water mimicry, which is different from freezing and (supposedly) a distinct ability.
    • All abilities appear to be distinct abilities until they don't. Teleportation is distinct from time-space manipulation, though similar. Precog and precog dreaming... so on...
  • Since Tracy and Barbara look alike, Barbara's photo was on the wall of fugitives Building 26 was hunting.
    • This is illogical. If you have a twin and I look at a picture of your twin, am I looking at you?
      • Not necessarily, but if the twin is identical, and you show a picture to someone who knows both twins, that person will not know which twin you are referring to. So there's not any difference. Dr. Zimmermann, the man who created the triplets, so to speak, could not tell that it was Tracy and not Barbara, even when Tracy was standing in front of him.--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:03, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
        • That doesn't make it a picture of Barabara in building 26. The likelyhood of it being her rather than Tracy, who was actually in the story, is slim (zero) as well. --Action Figure 14:26, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
          • It's not slim (zero). Building 26 obtained the Company's files, which would likely contain Barbara's info. in them.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:00, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Dr. Zimmermann's research was for the Company, so Barbara's identity should be in the Company's records.
  • Since Building 26 had the Company's records, Barbara should have been on their fugitives list.
  • Rebel obtained the Building 26 fugitives list, and warned many of the targets.
  • A woman named "Barbara" in the iStory has a similar water-related ability and works with the circus group led by Rebel.
  • This, on the other hand, doesn't really add up to much.

Out-of-story

  • Confirmation by Bryan Fuller that Ali Larter would return in the finale, but not as Barbara.
  • Since it's not Barbara, and Niki is dead, this must be Tracy.
  • While this does outright confirm it's Tracy, I think it's a perfectly logical conclusion that it's her WITHOUT the word by Kring Fuller. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 11:01, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Where is the Tim Kring confirmation? I know it's Tracy too, but the above list is a bit one-sided, since you don't list the reasons in-show that it could be Barbara.--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:07, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Whoops, it was Bryan Fuller, my bad. And I've added evidence in favor of Barbara. As you can see, it's hardly providing much of an argument. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 12:03, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Ok, I added more evidence for Barbara. I still think we should use Tracy, but I think the Barbara evidence should be fully presented so I did so (see above). Hopefully, an honest evaluation of the evidence will be enough convince the others to not oppose this change.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:32, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
          • No offence Miami but if it is tracy I would laugh in your face and do a Told You So dance :) , Just kidding ut its obviously tracy. Gabriel Bishop 05:09, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

From the crew

In an email I sent to Bill Hooper, I told him it was cool to see Tracy again. He said, "Yep, it was!" I think that, combined with previous spoilers we've heard about Tracy returning and Barbara not returning, and the character counting the agents she was killing, and Tracy's somewhat ambiguous and open ended melting death, I think that we're fine in saying that it was Tracy who showed up at Harper's apartment, until we're shown otherwise. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:56, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Finally! haha. Now here comes the ability debate... --OutbackZack 00:59, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
    • I think that Tracy melted when she was shot and shattered. All the "Tracy water" =p flowed into the sewer and therefore she can flow through any pipes and go to anyone's house. --JLYK 15:29, 29 April 2009
      • (Finally!). Thanks Ryan!--IotV 04:32, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Let's discuss it once again

So who was that woman with water mimicry - Tracy or somebody else? Bryan Fuller and Ali Larter say it's Tracy. But their words are the only proof. Why do I doubt it?
First, the ability. Tracy could freeze things. This character is a water mimic. It's possible Tracy could control water, but why freeze it first? The proof freezing isn't related to water control: Tracy often froze things which contained no water. A phone (don't tell me it got wet because of Tracy's tears), Mohinder's machine, binds, and a label. Peter replicated Tracy's ability and froze the plane's wall. As you can see, these objects had no water within them. So it's not water manipulation of any form.
Conclusion is: the ability Tracy exhibited during Season Three was freezing, and nothing else. So who did Ali Larter portray in the Season Four's teaser?
Fuller and Larter claimed it was Tracy. However, we know there's another triplet whose fate is still to be revealed. Could it be Barbara? According to BTE, no. Aron Coleite and John Pokaski said she would not appear in Volume Five. However, we know that Barbara has a synthetic ability, and Niki is dead. So it's either Tracy, or Barbara. Or is it? Could there be a fourth sister with a power on her own? Nothing suggests that. But it's possible.
If this is indeed Tracy, then she has two different abilities: freezing and water mimicry. If Matt Parkman's precognition is a byproduct of his telepathy, then Tracy is the first evolved human to manifest two powers. Does it has anything to do with the fact that she didn't have abilities naturally, but was granted them synthetically? If so, then it should apply to other synthetic EH. So far, we had: Nathan (R.I.P.), Niki (the same), Mohinder, Ando. Although Ando has learned to create a red lightning, it is a byproduct of ability supercharging. However, Paulette Hawkins never displayed such a thing, despite having the same ability. Her power wasn't synthetic, though. Peter's new ability is synthetic as well, yet he can do only one thing: absorbing powers singly. So how can Tracy have two different powers? What is it that makes her special among her synthetic fellows?
And the last thing. Redemption will be aired in September. Four months to wait. The writers may change their intentions, so Larter's character may not be Tracy after all.
Your thoughts? -- Altes 06:43, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

  • It's been confirmed the woman was Tracy. I believe her ability has evolved into water manipulation. It's not necessarily two different abilities, she can now control water in a different state. --Elemental Manipulator [ U | T | C ] - When in doubt, ask BTE 06:48, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
    • My thought is that the confirmation may be false. There's too much unexplained. -- Altes 09:07, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Freezing has nothing to do with water. Ice does however. --Master Dave 07:11, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Ice does indeed, but have you looked at the examples? They have nothing to do with ice. -- Altes 09:07, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Water is in the air... its inside her. We are all 75% water... and clearly she can become and create water. she could use that to freeze anything. --Action Figure 13:33, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
            • Maybe she was just emotionally 'cold' about her ability initially. Hyuck hyck hyck. -Barbedknives (talk)13:39, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Freezing and Water mimicry are different

Freezing does not necessary mean it anything to do with water, just turning things cold. Tracy never generates ice. However when she froze herself she basically became ice which can be linked with becoming water? I think saying her Freezing ability evolved into water mimicry just seems to gimmicky, I'm sure it will be explained better in the next volume. Perhaps the key is when Tracy's ice form winked and tear dropped. Hmmmm.... It also depends if she still has freezing powers. We have only seen the new Tracy use water mimicry. --Master Dave 07:09, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

    • ALi Larter confirmed on Jimmy Fallon that her powers now encompass not just ice, but water and steam. I dont see why its so hard to see the connection here.
  • I added a theory that said exactly that to her theory page a while back, but it was deleted for some reason. --Laudo 17:26, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

This case is over. Its Tracy. If you say otherwise, you are wrong. --Action Figure 13:34, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

  • I never said it wasn't Tracy, just that how her power changed is more complicated then you would assume. Tracy's power never generated ice or any other form of water.

However perhaps she has Freezing and wayer manipulation or something.

  • There are pretty much three ways to explain freezing, each one being a different power:
  1. Removing moisture particles from the air (consistent with water mimicry)
  2. Manipulating temperatures of matter directly
  3. Inserting chilled air physically into the surrounding area

So I'd say going with the first method, freezing and water mimicry are compatible. -Barbedknives (talk)14:33, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

    • Maybe not water mimicry, since also appears to be able to either manipulate it TK style, or create it, given that as she drowned Harper she raised her hand, but was clearly a fair distance away from him at the time. TracyStraussFan 14:47, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
      • She, like water mimics, can generate water from her body. She raised her hand and blasted the former agent with water. Can we please edit these articles now? --Action Figure 14:51, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Unless someone's gonna change it back then its edited :D--Fr0z3nB0nes 15:02, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
          • I changed it. And I'll explain why I changed it to what it is now. Clearly, her power now is not the same as it was before. Not to say it's COMPLETELY different, but it has definitely changed. Her original power, as we know, was freezing. Her current power, as we've seen so far, is similar enough to other examples of water mimicry to label it as such. It should be noted, however, that her power goes beyond mimicking water, but indeed water in all its forms. Thus, I have changed her power(s) to "Original ability: freezing (synthetic); Current ability: Water mimicry (evolved)" --Ricard Desi (t,c) 15:50, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
            • The most logical explanation for her apparent upgrade is the following: Tracy's ability was never freezing, it was water mimicry/manipulation, the freezing part being the only part she was aware of/could access, her experience with Danko and Building 26 stressing her/her ability to the point she was able to access another part of it. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:54, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
              • Or maybe it was Freezing and it changed... It is all very strange I'd say her ability changed when her frozen self shed a tear... We haven't seen the new Tracy using anything related to freezing and ice only water. Even if Ali Larter said it includes ice/water/steam we won't be able to know for certian until we know more. On screen Tracy's freezing looks pretty identical to season 1 Sylar's Freezing. I think the key to Tracy's new power is related to her death.... --Master Dave 16:46, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
  • To me it seems like her ability was water manipulation all along, but she was subconsciously adapting ot what the reporter said about her being an 'Ice Queen'. But, that said, it also seems that it was always different from James'/Sylar's ability, since Sylar has automatic mastery over his powers.--Laudo 17:30, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Nice change, I was going for osmething like that but didn't know what to put :D. Btw, technically, if she controls steam, water and ice isn't she sylar "slice and dice" proof (steam and water wise) and she could technically heal any injury (not passively however like rcr.)--Fr0z3nB0nes 17:38, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
    • There is no evidence that she canNOT still freeze things. I'd say she still has that ability too (by "I'd say" I mean its been confirmed.) It is all one blanket ability we have not seen before. Might deserve a new page. --Action Figure 05:04, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
  • I agree. Something like Water manipulation or H20 manipulation.--Laudo 10:05, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Water manipulation sounds good to me. Though powers develop from experience I think with Tracy the key is how she "died" by freezing her self. She was covered in water which is why she froze. Water. Perhaps that is why she suddenly has a water manipulation power and not just freezing. Matt Parkman's use of his power and how it develops comes from experience but Tracy's is special...Perhaps related to her "cold snap" and all that anger she had when locked up. --Master Dave 10:28, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Who changed her power status?--Fr0z3nB0nes 13:14, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
        • I think Ryan did, cause we can't say for sure that the water mimicry is a separate ability or a development of the freezing one, as a case of ability homology. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:01, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

Erm, why are people debating so much when we won't get the answer till September?

Ok, I know I know everyone is debating about can-sylar-fly or what-is-peter's-power or tracy-or-barbara. But, will we ever reach a conclusion until Volume 5 begins? I also joined in the debate a couple of times but we will never reach a conclusion! Just look at this page. Out of 25 discussion topics (excluding this one), 10 of them are about Tracy's ability/abilities and whether is it her or not. All of them are created in less than a week. --JLYK, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

    • False. We have reached a conclusion (that was obvious form the start) and included evidence that it IS Tracy and not that we simply THINK it is. The answer is here. Either way, there is no sense in trying to stymie a discussion. --Action Figure 14:30, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
  • We are impatient. Can you blame us for this? We all are eager to learn the truth. -- Altes 13:30, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
    • Yep, I am impatient too, and I have also contributed a little to this big debates. -- JLYK 15:07, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
      • Would you like a cookie?
        • You heretic! We are waffle-worshippers! -- Altes 06:00, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

Am I the only one who thinks Tracy is hot?

How could you guys not mention it here? When Tracy appeared in Kent Harper's apartment naked, I almost creamed my pants :-[ -- Anonymous Pervert

  • Not so sure i want to reply to a self-confessed perv, but yes seeing that ass being sculpted (from water?!) was rather, ahem, enjoyable :D

She's frickin gorgeous btw. And maybe you cant tell but im a big fan > TracyStraussFan 12:24, 6 May 2009 (EDT)

  • Honestly. Simply. Wow. ;D --IronyUTC CH 12:35, 6 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Yes She is hot, but Really........ REALLY......! Check her new movie out I've not seen it yet but i think it loves good!
  • You guys are sick! jk ;) Heroes Wiki Fan, --Pslover 21:08, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Let's please remember that this is a family friendly wiki. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:19, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Tracy is the hottest character on the show. I profusely swoon everytime she's onscreen. ♥ --Punxas 23:18, 3 November 2009 (EST)

Can we please change Tracy's Photo!

I really dislike the current photo of Tracy on her page! I say we change it but i want everyone's thoughts first so please reply! Heroes Wiki, --Pslover 21:06, 7 May 2009 (EDT)

  • Personally, I like this image, which is what's up there right now. But if it's decided that we should change the image, we should upload a new image over the existing one, rather than uploading a new one and making lots of changes throughout the site. Also, character portraits should be 200 x 250. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:53, 9 May 2009 (EDT)
    • Personally, I absolutely love this one, I think it is sooo cool and the best Tracy image ever. I think it is a really good image. --IronyUTC CH 11:09, 9 May 2009 (EDT)
      • That was filmed before Tracy was even created! There's no proof as to who it actually is. -- Tristan0709 talk 20:33, 9 May 2009 (EDT)
        • Plus, we typically use promotional images, not screenshots, where we can. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:35, 9 May 2009 (EDT)
          • I'd like to nominate a pic of her in 3x03 where she's about to freeze the rose. I can't find it on the wiki though. -- Tristan0709 talk 20:36, 9 May 2009 (EDT)
            • This is the only one I know of. However, I do like this shot, but it would need to be standard size and reuploaded over the existing image. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:23, 10 May 2009 (EDT)
              • I can re-size it for you, if you would be okay if I did of course. - Tyr Aires 18:26, 10 May 2009 (EDT)
                • Sadly, I tried to re-size it but it was very squishy and messy. --Tyr Aires 17:41, 10 May 2009
                  • It needs to be done from the source image instead of the image that's already uploaded. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:26, 10 May 2009 (EDT)
                    • I agree 100% that photo is terrible and very old. Tracy Isn't the same person she was at the beginning of Volume three. I think we should change the photo to on of her in Building 26, a screen shot of her at the end of invisible thread (if that's even her, I really hope it was Barbara) or just a picture of her with her hair down (cuz it makes her look better).-Earl
                      • I totally agree Earl!!! The picture of her now is just so unflattering!! --Pslover 20:36, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
                    • The cropped image of Image:Tracy.jpg comes from Image:Tracyandmicah.jpg, which is a promotional image found at imdb.com. Just posting here in case someone still wanted to recrop and reupload the photo for Tracy.jpg. Afterwards, please afd Tracyandmicah.jpg since it's not a used image. Thanks.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:29, 3 August 2009 (EDT)

Evidence it was Barbara

In the Agent a water controller named Barbara battled Janey. That sounded similar to what happened to Agent Harper.--WarGrowlmon18 23:29, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

As confirmed by the Evolutions crew, that Barbara cannot turn into or manipulate water, only generate it. The girl in An Invisible Thread has been confirmed to be Tracy in everything short of an all-out press conference. Ali Larter even said that her characters' powers have expanded to encompass not only ice, but water and steam as well. --Laudo 23:57, 29 May 2009 (EDT)

Recap of evidence, for and against Tracy having Water Mimicry

For

  • She blinked (and shed a tear I think) even after shattered, that's not possible if you're dead. This shows she was still alive
  • She melted away into a storm drain and then at the season finale a woman who looks exactly like her forms out of water in a man's apartment. Could this be Tracy or Barbara, who's power we don't know. Occam's Razor says Tracy considering her initial power was cryokinetic, it wouldn't be too far off for her to develop hydrokinetic ones to, since they're both about the same thing (water).
  • Why would they make Barbara's ability so similar to Tracy's? It would just unorriginality
  • Powers can and have advanced before
  • Hiro's power developed to become control of two closely related things
  • Was she not listed as Tracy in the credits as the person in the above section said?
  • Even though the assignment tracker listed her as having Freezing, that was probably just because her Water Mimicry is a recent development, no one knew at the time of making her assignment tracker profile that she could do more than freeze.
    • The woman is already confirmed to be Tracy. - Josh (talk/contribs) 22:26, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

Against

  • I don't know, is there any
    • "the assignment tracker listed her as having Freezing" (part of something from your for list) should go here. - Josh (talk/contribs) 22:26, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

Also, Intuitive Empath, you said it says nothing about being a new aspect of the same ability or being a new power. Its clearly a new power, the verb "To Freeze" Does not also mean "to solidify water molecules and/or liquify one's self, only to reform later." Until they release an umbrella term for her two powers (if they do) we must list her with the powers she has demonstrated which would be Water mimicry and Freezing.

  • She most likely does not have two abilities, but one ability that allows both freezing things and mimicking water. Listing her as having two abilities, "freezing" and "water mimicry" would be wrong in that case. Listing her as having one ability, although using an incomplete name for it, is definitely accurate, albeit probably incomplete. I would like to merge the two abilities into water manipulation, but there's no consensus for a merge, and we would be stuck with the canon name (freezing) unless there was some change in rules, which is a case for another page. - Josh (talk/contribs) 22:26, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
    • She can freeze things, that counts as one ability (freezing) she can mimic water (that counts as water mimicry) hence she can use two abilities, surely the second should be added, otherwise its just misleading.
      • She can freeze things; that's because of her one ability. She can mimic water; that's also because of her one ability. She has and can use just the one ability. Surely the one ability should be listed only once. Otherwise it's just misleading. So far, the only canon name for that ability is "freezing", so it's the only thing we can call it for now. The reader should be able to click "freezing" can get full details on what that ability allows, but, unfortunately, there's still the tiny possibility that the water mimicry is a seperate ability, so that would be speculation. - Josh (talk/contribs) 23:40, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

- Josh (talk/contribs) 23:40, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

  • Up until the moment we saw water becoming her, her ability was freezing, plain and simple. Now, with the new effect (and possible new effects we have yet to see), my understanding of Tracy is as follows: Tracy's ability is, and has ever been "water manipulation/mimicry/whatever", yet she was only able to access, or was only aware of the freezing portion of her ability, the traumatic event in Cold Snap allowing her to use her ability to its fullest extent. Since we only knew about the freezing part, she's listed as having freezing, but until it's made clearer, we should stick with the current name. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:04, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
    • I agree. I think we should leave it as freezing but still indicate on her page that she is now capable of turning into water. We should save Water mimicry/manipulation for when we have more info.--Laudo 03:08, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
      • We already have water mimicry, but it currently lists only becoming water and controlling yourself while in that state. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:31, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

Bless those spoilers

So... Of course I must not write here what spoilers say, but at least now those who read them know who appeared in Kent Harper's apartment. Hmm... That fact still raises many questions. -- Altes 06:16, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

Is it confirmed?

I really do apologize for bringing this up again, but I haven't been here in a while and this talk page is too convoluted for me to tell. Have we reached a consensus on whether or not it was Tracy? ThePortalMan 12:08, 15 July 2009 (EDT)

  • Yes it was tracy. It was said in an interview somewhere.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 12:10, 15 July 2009 (EDT)
    • Yes, but has the community reached a consesus? ThePortalMan 15:59, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
      • The community? No, we didn't. Until we received the confirmation it was Tracy, the debates were... well, large and loud. -- Altes 01:12, 21 July 2009 (EDT)
        • Ah, I see. That's what I figured. Thank you. --ThePortalMan 18:46, 23 July 2009 (EDT)

New Pic

I'm sorry but who uploaded the new pic? I was told that we only use promotional images. If there are separate rules for Tracy then I think it is a bit unfair for people like Micah and Daphne, who both have pretty lame pictures. Also, there is no other image of Tracy's previous character pic. I would have personally liked the person who changed the picture to at least re-upload the old one for those who do not like the new one. Josh Korolenko

  • I agree, aren't we supposed to use promo pics? everyone else has one, so why doesn't Tracy. I don't dislike this new image, I think its good, but it just seems unfair that Tracy (even though she's a super kool character :) ) gets to have a non promo picture. Even though there was a pre release pic of Tracy touching the rose and freezing it, this was seen in the butterfly effect and not a promo shot of Tracy. Anyone see what I'm getting at?
  • PS doesn't bother me what image is used, like both of them, just wondering if other characters could have different pics. Oh and joshK? why don't you upload that pic as a different file? :) (both of above done by) Me, AJ :)

Ice Queen Part 1 update!

So can we confirm that it is Tracy and that she does at least have an aspect of Water Mimicry. She still has Freezing (and seems to use it for the offensive still) but her power has also developed to allow her to generate water and turn her body into water. --mc_hammark 13:47, 8 September 2009 (EDT)

  • Should Ice Queen be part of season three (in that case going to the subpage) or of season four (in this case remaining separate from the subpage, then put in the main article)? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:40, 8 September 2009 (EDT)
    • In the about section it says that she resurfaced six weeks later, but now with Ice Queen that means that it was earlier, should we change it? --mc_hammark 05:49, 12 September 2009 (EDT)
      • How do we know how long it took her to resurface? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:38, 12 September 2009 (EDT)
        • Six weeks was the time between the end of Fugitives and her killing of Kent Harper, she clearly went active before those six weeks. There's still the issue of where Ice Queen should be listed. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 14:33, 12 September 2009 (EDT)
          • Isn't it possible that she was in the sewer system for an extended period of time? I agree we should remove the six weeks reference from the page, but I don't think we can say how long it was. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:19, 12 September 2009 (EDT)
            • She didn't appear to have stayed in the sewers for long, I did have the impression that some time passed between her leaving the sewers and meeting up Micah. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:51, 12 September 2009 (EDT)

Ice Queen GN

Since Season 4 hasn't begun yet, maybe the graphic novel should go to Tracy's Season 3 history? Green.gif AltesUTC CH

That's what I asked in the topic just above this one. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:01, 13 September 2009 (EDT)
Oops. Green.gif AltesUTC CH

New Image?

Has the new lead image been agreed upon?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 19:38, 21 September 2009 (EDT)

  • I don't know but I like it! ~~IHHTalk 19:41, 21 September 2009 (EDT)
    • I like it too, but i'm not sure if it is ok to just change it like that.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 19:50, 21 September 2009 (EDT)
      • I don't like that it was suddenly changed either, but it's a promotional image, and it's a good improvement over the current one. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:58, 21 September 2009 (EDT)
        • I think its a good change, where did it come from? --Skullman1392 22:11, 21 September 2009 (EDT)
  • She's beautiful... <3 Green.gif AltesUTC CH

Water/ H2O Manipulation?

  • Based on the new episodes. Tracy Strauss obviously have Water mimicry, however she still manage to use freezing. Wouldn't be a sign that she can control all properties of water? Except for Gas. But it would be better for now if we just conclude that she has both ability.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 14:48, 22 September 2009 (EDT)
    • I really think we should pick one talk page where we discuss Tracy's ability and stick with it. I've lost the count of how many topics in how many talk pages we discuss this. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:00, 22 September 2009 (EDT)
  • Where's the other talkpage? --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 16:12, 22 September 2009 (EDT)
  • Ooops, Nevermind...didn't see that one.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 16:24, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

INCLUDE WATER MIMICRY

I think it's pretty obvious, after the episode Orientation, that Tracy has evolved her freezing ability into Water mimicry, so why can't we include that in? We included Precognition for Matt, when his ability evolved, so what's the big problem? You guys overthink this too much. The writers are never gonna give out Ability names just like that. The show is made for people to think, but if you guys want to get literal (like you always do) include Water mimicry in her abilities. Meteoritu =D- 21:02, September 23rd 2009

  • We list Matt's power only as telepathy, with the explanation on how he achieves precognition with it. Aside from characters with an ability to allow them to get more abilities, every single character has only one ability, no matter how many effects it has. We can't simply list freezing and water mimicry, nor can we list one or the other, cause she appears to have both as part of a single ability. Listing both would say she has two innate abilities, which she doesn't. What we need is to define her ability in a way that accounts for both these effects. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:12, 23 September 2009 (EDT)
    • There are other examples of one ability doing multiple different things: accelerated probability, ability supercharging, electric manipulation, intuitive aptitude... Green.gif AltesUTC CH
      • What if, and this is a big if, Tracy already had a natural ability when she was injected? She may already have had an ability when she was injected so now she has two? Plausable? --mc_hammark 16:46, 24 September 2009 (EDT)
        • No idea what would happen then, you'll have to ask one of the writers. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:48, 24 September 2009 (EDT)
          • Mohinder said people who already have a power cannot acquire a new one by injecting themselves with the formula. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
            • When did he say this? And we know that there have been several times mohinder has been wrong about abilities. --mc_hammark 14:25, 25 September 2009 (EDT)
              • In the begining of the third season. But we have also been told (maybe this was the same scene, actually) that a person's ability is based on their DNA. Thus, the abilty they are born with OR the ability they recieve is because of someone's individual DNA (also why two people can be injected with the same formula and recieve two different abilities) And since people's DNAs only allow one ability, one person can only have one ability. --Skullman1392 16:43, 25 September 2009 (EDT)
                • Why don't we change the name of her ability to Water Mastery, she basically can manipulate water when she attacked Noah cause she was outside but near his car, she can also liquify herself and can freeze anything especially water. What do you think? --Darkfiremaster13 05:52, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
                  • The water in the car was her. She wasn't controlling it from a distance. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:00, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
                    • Graphic Novel:Ice Queen, Part 2 says otherwise... --Skullman1392 22:41, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
                      • Yes, it was shown in the graphic novel that she was outside when the water almost fill the car--Darkfiremaster13 07:15, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
                        • And the episode showed the water moving away on its own, I put more faith in the episode then in the GN. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 08:09, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
                          • Just because the water was moving away doesn't mean it came from the car. Remember, Noah had a whole convo with Danko before he noticed more water moving, and by that time most of the water was down the drain (which is why the water the was moving the way it did stood out). So I'm betting since Tracy was hiding right nearby, she turned into water after Danko left and slid into the drain. --Skullman1392 17:09, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
                            • I think she can also generate water, shown on the latest Graphic Novel:Amanda's Journey, Part 2. --Darkfiremaster13 02:56, 24 October 2009 (EDT)
                              • She froze the fire, she didn't douse it. You can tell because after she's done, Amanda touches the frozen fire. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:57, 24 October 2009 (EDT)
                                • She couldn't have actually touched the fire, she emitted water and then froze that. --Skullman1392 19:22, 24 October 2009 (EDT)
                                  • When she touched Jeremy and turn her hand into water there were water dropping from the chair.--Darkfiremaster13 06:24, 29 October 2009 (EDT)
                                • Is it even possible to freeze fire? Green.gif AltesUTC CH
                                  • Maybe, only saw it once on a movie. But don't know if it was possible. --Darkfiremaster13 06:37, 29 October 2009 (EDT)
                                    • Fire is plasma (or gas, if you'd like), Tracy never froze gases with her ability. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
                                      • You're right but maybe she can now that her ability evolved, but it will be much more realistic if she throw water to the fire then freeze the water.--Darkfiremaster13 07:13, 29 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Tracy's ability has evolved and changed. We don't know whether or not the name of the ability has changed. The name we've been given is "freezing". That's the name we should stick with, until we're given a different name. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:07, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
    • I personally think Water mimicry is her own biological power, which manifested after sbe was shot in the parking lot. She also happens to still be able to freeze due to the fact that Freezing is a synthetic ability. I guess she possesses 2 abilities... -- I tend to get immersed over several topics and when it comes to Heroes, there are plenty of them. I guess i eat my own head out too often lol
      • While an explanation that makes some sense to me, this was never suggested, so we can do nothing based on that. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:19, 19 November 2009 (EST)
        • On the latest episode Peter said that Rene "The Haitian" have, power negation and memory deleting. Two ability named as one, shouldn't we do the same with Tracy and Jeremy? --Darkfiremaster13 06:43, 7 December 2009 (EST)

she can now include her clothes with the water

in orientation when edgar used his knives on her and you could see the damage to her clothes being ripped, then a few seconds later you could see the clothes were absolutely fine. Can we note this? --mc_hammark 14:37, 27 September 2009 (EDT)

  • I'd say so.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 14:37, 27 September 2009 (EDT)
    • Or it could be a continuity mistake. I say wait until it's made clearer. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:27, 27 September 2009 (EDT)
      • It wasn't shown but her towel seemed to be formed with her. Also when she was losing control of her abilities in Acceptance and her hands began to turn into water, she was wearing a bracelet on her right hand which also turned into water. Again could be a continuity mistake.
        • I saw that too. And in the last episode where she turned from water with her clothes on to save Noah and Claire in the trailer. --shlakime 10:42, 22 February 2010 (EST)

Water Mimicry

It has been confirmed that possessors of water mimicry don't actually turn into water, just a similar looking liquid. My question is that if Tracy does indeed have this power, how is it at all related to freezing? There would be a slight connection if she turned into pure water, but if she can just turn into a liquid there are few similarities. If she had turned into an oily looking liquid as opposed to a watery one (which she may as well have), there wouldn't be any parallels between the two abilities, and we would continue to be baffled by her new ability.--PJDEP 19:31, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • A similar discussion about Tracy's ability being separated from Freezing and renamed Water and ice manipulation is being discussed Talk:Freezing#Prodigals, part 1. --Bender 22:28, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • On the Graphic Novel:Prodigals, Part 1 her ability was said as Water and Ice Manipulation, shouldn't graphic novels also be counted as a cannon source? --Darkfiremaster13 05:23, 27 November 2009 (EST)
      • Graphic Novels are near-canon sources. ~~IHHTalk 10:08, 27 November 2009 (EST)
        • The irony of course being that they probably only used "freezing" in the first place because we were using it on the Heroes Wiki. Joke's on us, I suppose. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 12:48, 27 November 2009 (EST)
          • Ok, I see it now that graphic novel, webseries and istory are all near-canon. But at least one of the sources says a name of the ability --Darkfiremaster13 00:17, 28 November 2009 (EST)
            • But the show itself (Dual) showed us her power's name: Freezing (see Nathan's files). Unfortunately, this was at a time where we suspect the show may have used "freezing" because we here had been using "freezing" until we saw otherwise. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 13:15, 28 November 2009 (EST)
              • But that was before her ability evolved, and the name perfectly described her ability that time even if they saw it here or not.--Darkfiremaster13 03:27, 29 November 2009 (EST)