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Talk:Rapid cell regeneration

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible
Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine rapid cell regeneration's name.
Source/Explanation
"Rapid cell regeneration" is explicitly named in the Genesis Files.

The caption states that it's Claire's sixth attempt jumping off the refinery. While she says it's "attempt number six", how do we know the first five attempts weren't something different? Her list of injuries implies they were, as does Lyle's viewing of the tape.--Hardvice (talk) 23:43, 10 December 2006 (EST)

Actually, I always assumed that was her first jump since I would assume by the 6th time Zach wouldn't have been freaking out so much. I'd definitely take out the part about it specifically being her 6th attempt at jumping since that's just a guess. (Admin 23:49, 10 December 2006 (EST))
Good point, sorry to speculate. Removed. Thanks! :) - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:05, 11 December 2006 (EST)
It actually a lot likes regeneration ability of Wolverine.
  • There's way too many examples. We should keep them limited to 10 at the most.
    • See here for discussion.
  • Looked to me again last night like there's an inconsistancy in Claire's ability (atleast in the special effects portrayal of it). When she cut her arm with the knife, it healed as any normal cuts would have, only much faster (including the appearance of scar tissue around the wound). This seems inconsistant with other times (like when the blood was "sucked" back in after Lyle stapled her). I have to wonder what would happen if she lost a limb (based on what we've seen, I don't think it's just grow back) or worse... exploded.--Yoshie (talk) 23:43, 06 February 2007 (EST)
    • In The Kindness of Strangers, Claire tells West that she used to jump off the refinery to see what she could do. This implies that previous attempts were of the same action. --DismantleRepair 01:38, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

Spontaneous Regeneration

Shouldn't the title of this article be called Spontaneous Regeneration, seeing as it is refered to by that name in the show.--The Empath 21:55, 9 February 2007 (EST)

  • I could have sworn this has come up before, but I couldn't find the discussion. They've called it a number of things within the show. Chandra's file lists it as "Rapid call regeneration" so that's why it was named that. (Admin 22:11, 9 February 2007 (EST))
  • They've used both. The Genesis files call it RCR, and we know that's in reference to Claire because you can briefly see "Odessa, TX" inside the folder. Either is probably fine.--Hardvice (talk) 22:13, 9 February 2007 (EST)
    • Do you remember if there's a reason we didn't create a redirect for it? (Admin 22:16, 9 February 2007 (EST))
      • Nope. We probably should, no?--Hardvice (talk) 22:18, 9 February 2007 (EST)
  • The word spontaneous means "happening without external cause". With that considered, the concept of "Spontaneous Regeneration" is nonsense -- healing happens in response to an injury. If it's spontaneous, then there's no injury, and therefore nothing to be healed. Stevie-O 02:39, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
    • Exactly. She doesn't say "cut, heal!", or make it heal in any way. It heals by itself. Thus, it's spontaneous. --Heroe!(talk) (contribs) 10:44, 24 May 2007 (EDT)

Examples page

Okay, the examples were getting a bit long. We've had the discussion before, so I thought I'd give it a go and trim this down to 10-12 examples. I tried to keep the most illustrative examples, the most memorable, or the ones that were just really cool. For the gallery, I basically kept the most bloody ones, which means they don't exactly match the examples listed on the page. I also provided a link to the examples page. I'm open to suggestions on how this can be tweaked. If we like it, we can keep it. (I'll do space-time manipulation when I get home tonight.) If it's no good, of course we can get rid of it. Thoughts? — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:34, 1 March 2007 (EST)

  • I like what you've done, but I doubt we need to have the same introductory information on the the examples page. I'll make a quick change there and you can tell me what you think. --Ted C 16:06, 1 March 2007 (EST)
    • Thanks. Yeah, I agree, I just threw that in there real quickly. The infobox was mostly just to have something, but it looks fine without. I added Category:Powers. I'll go ahead and work on a few other powers momentarily. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:56, 1 March 2007 (EST)
  • This looks great! Excellent solution, and you know how much I love me some list articles with long names...--Hardvice (talk) 18:13, 1 March 2007 (EST)

Kensei or Adam?

Should be be listing him by his alias or the name he's apparently been using in the more modern times? I did send a question to CBR for Behind the Eclipse asking if Adam was Kensei's original name but since the page seems to talk about the legend more than the man I suggest we change it to Adam. --PeterDawson 00:08, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Shorter Name?

Didn't Mohinder give a shorter name in Out of Time? -Lөvөl 14:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

  • He parroted what Bob said. The name was on a folder in one of the first episodes. (The link is a joke. I still don't agree with the parroting thing)--Riddler 14:13, 12 November 2007 (EST)
    • Well both are authorities on the subject. Did he call it just "cellular regeneration"? -Lөvөl 12:11, 14 November 2007 (EST)
      • Technically, every human being has cellular regeneration. It's just that Claire, as well as Adam and Peter, can heal rapidly. Thus, the name is rapid cell regeneration; I think the adjective 'rapid' is absolutely necessary. I think rapid cellular generation would be appropriate too, but 'cell' is just a shortened word for 'cellular'.--Ice Vision 15:44, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        • I think we should just call it "Regeneration". It says exactly what it does and is just a little shorter. --Catalyst 20:54 21 January 2009
          • That simply wouldn't work. Every living organism(or there abouts), regenerates to some degree. Regeneration is just what we do naturally anyway, and it is far too broad and doesn't really describe what the ability is doing which is healing rapidly.--Steelymcbeam 04:53, 22 January 2009 (EST)

Riddler? Why does the word "parroting" in your comment link to the talk page of electromagnetism?--ERROR 19:42, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

Peter's Tattoo

Is it appropriate to mention here that Peter's tattoo disappeared? Rather, is that defined enough as a result of his regeneration that it's ok to mention here? For what it's worth, there's a relevant quote in Ultimate X-Men, from Wolverine, saying that, "Tats are basically scars, 'Ro. They only last a few hours on me before my healing factor rubs 'em out." (And I'm nerd enough to have memorized it.) I think the tattoos' disappearance is safe to put down as regeneration... --Spellingbee 00:08, 23 November 2007 (EST)

Limits Section

Shouldn't the limits section include the fact that if a person is wounded in the head, they can't regenerate? Just a thought.

  • It does, it just isn't made to stand out. Reason being (to my knowledge); it is a claim made by Adam that hasn't been confirmed by being shown in the show yet.--SacValleyDweller (talk) 01:08, 28 November 2007 (EST)
  • By the way, this is more a matter of word choice than anything else, but a person wounded in the head can regenerate. Even a person wounded in the brain can regenerate. Adam said you can' come back from having your head blown off. I think it states that pretty clearly in the article, but I'm just bringing it up as a point of clarification. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 06:29, 28 November 2007 (EST)
  • Also I think we should move the statement from the Aging-topic to either "Limits" or "Healing". Not being able to regenerate, after the person got their head cut/blown off hasn't to do anything with aging. BloodyFox 12:28, 29 November 2007 (CEST)

Blood or Brain?

I bet y'all have noticed this, but does this power reside in the blood or in the brain? If in the brain, as we originally believed, then transferring the blood to another wounded person should have no effect. If in the blood, Claire and Peter should have been able to recover from having objects lodged in their skulls, because the ability is certainly capable of removing foreign objects (mostly bullets, but shards of glass have been pushed out too).

  • Or, more than likely, it takes both brains and blood to make the power work. That's also keeping somewhat in check with the laws of biology, I suppose. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:21, 4 December 2007 (EST)
    • Maybe, but that doesn't explain how someone who's been dead for hours can regenerate with the blood, because their brain would have shut down. Also, they wouldn't have the mental trigger for the healing in their brain, because they don't have the power naturally.--Yamawhata? 20:36, 6 December 2007 (EST)

Regaining memory

In Four Months Ago..., Adam instructed Peter to heal his brain cells and regain the memories that the Haitian erased. Peter then remembered Nathan and all the events that occurred in the previous four months. Indeed, RCR does have the capability to heal the Haitian's effects. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:59, 17 December 2007 (EST)

  • But it appears that the effect had to be *willed*, unlike other aspects of Claire's RCR this was by no means a passive thing.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:10, 17 December 2007 (EST)
    • Absolutely, and what a very interesting aspect of the power. But it's still an aspect of the power, and should not be deleted from the page. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:18, 17 December 2007 (EST)

"a recipient of Adam's blood cannot age indefinitely"

Not that it needs to be added to the article, but another example of Adam's blood not saving people from death indefinitely is Nathan. He received the blood in February 2007, but still died of the virus in the first outbreak. In an alternate timeline, he received the blood, and then was shot (again, on March 20, 2007), and I didn't see any signs of regeneration going on. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:06, 13 January 2008 (EST)

  • Right, and not only that, Nathan is unable to rapidly regenerate, as seen in The Kindness of Strangers. After Nathan punched a mirror, his badly damaged, bloody hand didn't heal. In Fight or Flight, Nathan is seen with a bandaged hand when he picks up Bob's death threat. Also, the bandages were a bit bloody (the blood was dry, of course). --Ice Vision (talk) 11:34, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Notes

"Claire's healing ability does not seem to affect her pierced ears" shouldn't be there, since it's not an error or something notable -- ears are pierced when girls are very young, and Claire manifested her ability near puberty. Pierced ears are just another scar -- if she could heal scars attained before her power manifested, she wouldn't have a belly-button, either.--Khote (talk) 16:22, 25 February 2008 (EST)

  • Every girl gets their ears pierced when they're young? I wasn't aware of this. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 17:54, 25 February 2008 (EST)
    • Not "every girl", but many do. I don't agree with the practice, but it's not at the top of my societal wrongdoings list.--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:03, 25 February 2008 (EST)
      • But we can't assume Claire is among those girls, just becuase she also has peirced ears. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 18:09, 25 February 2008 (EST)
        • OTOH, she was wearing earrings in Six Months Ago and Company Man, before her power manifested.
  • Personally I don't see a problem with the note. Her ability hasn't affected her pierced ears. In fact, I could argue that taking the note off because "ears are pierced when girls are very young" is speculative. Pierced ears are actually not a scar (like a bellybutton)--in fact, if a person does not continually pierce their ears (or rather, continue putting earrings in their piercing holes), the holes often close up, just like the power does in other cases. But if that still doesn't do it for you, there have been plenty of message boards where people have wondered about Claire's pierced ears. Kevin Smith mentioned it on his blog (along with some sexually explicit postulations, I believe), and Howard Stern wondered about it on his radio show. For people who might be searching for information regarding Claire's ears, I think the note should stay. It's not in the main limits (and shouldn't be), it's in the notes. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:29, 25 February 2008 (EST)
    • Yeah, that's ultimately where I landed as well after initially not being sure whether the note should be there. When I thought about it some more I realized that regardless of whether it's an intentional part of her character or not it is something that gets asked about frequently, so it's worthwhile to at least address it. (Admin 21:03, 25 February 2008 (EST))
  • Claire also has at least one helix piercing, which is not likely to be done when girls are very young, but can't tell if she got it before Six Months Ago. -Lөvөl 00:59, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Didn't her power demonstrated in Claire and the cat, before Six Months Ago? Mateussf 20:53, 25 April 2009 (EDT)

Cool Stuff

Saw this on Slashdot, wonder if "Mohinder" will post something about it on activatingevolution.org.--Bob (talk) 16:49, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

  • Since activatingevolution.org is a wiki, couldn't we just add it ourselves?--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:36, 16 March 2008 (EDT)
    • Yeah, but I meant along the lines of the specials that they do with video and interviews.--Bob (talk) 18:34, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Brendan Lewis

I think he should be included. His assignment tracker lists regeneration as one of his abilities, and the description of RCR doesn't specify human cells as Referos claims.--MiamiVolts (talk) 09:09, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

  • The Assignment Tracker (near-canon) lists Lewis as having two abilities. Noah said in an episode (canon) that all evolved humans have only one ability (excluding abilities that steal/mimic/absorb other abilities). Canon trumps near-canon, so Lewis cannot have two abilities no matter what his profile says. This should be explained in the notes section. However, I agree that saying RCR only heals human cells is speculation (maybe a blood transfusion can heal animals, too), so I will remove that part.--Referos 12:38, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
    • Im not so sure we oght to be that quick to do that, so Im gonna put that back in some fashion until more people say something --SacValleyDweller (talk) 19:53, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
    • I believe that the regeneration part in the assignment tracker refers to his ability which could allow him to regenerate. Like when you cut a plant down it doesn't die but regrows. Its not the same as RCR but if he was becoming more plant then human then maybe it works the same way for him. I would have to say that he doesn't have RCR but that it is his plant ability that regenerates his damage.--Iceman 12:21, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
    • He does not have rapid cell regeneration, only his original ability, which allows him to regenerate like a plant. He should be removed from this page. FutureSNLWriter 21:14, 11 August 2008 (EDT)


Limits section

Can someone reword the limits section so it appears like the other ability pages? What I mean by this is split it per person. That way, you can put aging in Adam's section, and note that Sylar told Claire that neither he nor Claire will ever die. I have to go to work.--Bob (talk) 17:12, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Okay, question

Now in the eclipse parts 1 and 2 they say Claire has never been sick. Now is that just because they kept REALLY good care of Claire or does her ability prevent her from illnesses as well as not allowing her to get hurt?

Infections

In Eclipse Part 2, when Claire's ability is down, after she is shot, the doctor says that her whole system is infected "like she's never been sick". Not sure how we should add that, but that suggests that her power works independently from her immune system, or at the very least works so fast to the point there's nothing left for her immune system fight, leaving it underdeveloped. Penny for your thoughts. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:21, 4 December 2008 (EST)

  • Okay, it was I who posted the okay question thing, but know we know that she hasnt been infected we can say that part of her ability is that she can't get infected by virus' and illness' so can we safely add that to Rapid Cellular Regeneration page? Because don't forget of Adam's wife having Tuburcleosis(if thats how you spell it). He healed that. So is it safe to say Rapid Cell Regeneration can prevent against/heal illness' as well?--Sylarversion2 17:49, 4 December 2008 (EST)
    • I probably started adding this section while you were adding yours, this has happened before. As I said, the impression I got is that the power overrides her immune system, it kills pathogenic bacteria before her immune system even has a change to react, leaving it underdeveloped. With Adam's wife, it'd be the same thing. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:42, 4 December 2008 (EST)
    • Bump to trigger more discussion on the matter. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:48, 8 December 2008 (EST)
      • Yes, it sounds like her ability causes her to never get sick. Therefore, she has never had to build up an immunity to anything. Without her powers, she is very vulnerable to illnesses and infections. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:52, 8 December 2008 (EST)
        • What I'm curious about is that it overrides her immune system instead of enhancing it, I've always thought that the reason a character with an ability like this never got sick is because their immune system is supercharged, reacting very fast to everything that might pose a danger to the organism, and this is clearly not the case for Claire, who seems to have a deficient immune system. I'll do my best to add it. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:58, 8 December 2008 (EST)
          • What we learned from the last episode was that her immune system is pretty much obsolete. She doesn't need it because her ability is better, faster, and more powerful. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:01, 8 December 2008 (EST)

Intuitive Empath- That's what I thought, too. Also, "bump?" What's that mean?

(Whoops, forgot my signature.)--ERROR 21:08, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

  • When a page is edited (as I am doing right now), it is registered in the list of recent changes. So "bumping" a discussion means that Intuitive Empath was registering this page (and, by default, this discussion) in the list of recent changes so people would see it, and presumably discuss the matter further. Of course, that was more than half a year ago... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:21, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

The picture

Does anyone else find the severed toe picture disgusting? Is it possible to replace it? I won't complain if it remains, but it just makes me nauseous. (And my favorite film is Goodfellas!) ebrown2112 03:54, 10 December 2008 (EST)

Arthur dying for good

This section seems a bit speculative. Do we know Arthur is permanently dead? If so, do we know it is specifically because regeneration in general failed in this instance, or as an aspect of his power (maybe his power requires him to concentrate to use a stolen power, while Peter's doesn't)? The entry also seems a bit iffy because it doesn't address other instances where catastrophic brain damage has occurred (i.e., Peter with a piece of glass in his head) where the victim regenerated. And while a suitable bullet blowing someone's head off might bypass their regeneration, that isn't what happens here. Arthur's head is in... well, pretty good shape. I'm just not convinced it's so definitively proved that anyone with any form of regeneration can die in this manner, as the bold nature of the statement here makes it seems. There seem to be a few contradictions. --Gadfly 13:09, 10 December 2008 (EST)

  • Also, if shooting someone in the head so thoroughly kills a regenerator... why didn't Noah do it in Eclipse 2? Even if Sylar doesn't have his powers, wouldn't a trained killer, skilled at dealing with people with powers, use the most efficient way known to kill someone with regeneration? But instead Noah cuts his throat, even though Sylar is pretty throughly subdued and there's a gun at hand. --Gadfly 13:20, 10 December 2008 (EST)
    • I think he lost his gun, that's why he used the knife.--WarGrowlmon18 14:47, 26 February 2009 (EST)
    • Noah didn't know the abilities were coming back for sure, and likely had an oversight when dealing with Sylar, since his hunting of Sylar was out of anger. When Noah was shot, was he shot straight through the head or was it at an angle so it didn't damage his brain? A shot straight through the head would kill them permanently, but I suppose if it barely touched the brain or missed it they could regenerate.--Riddler 13:26, 10 December 2008 (EST)
  • with Peter, the glass shard wend into the back of his head, perhaps this is not a nessasary part of the brain for abilitys to work, therefore he regenerates.with noah, the bullet hit his glasses and this probaly slowed it, Now with arthur, the bullet wil have ricocetted round his skull, and destroyed all hi brain.-fred1793
    • The bullet may or may not have ricocheted. Note also that Angela specifically said to shoot Arthur in the back of the head... which neither Peter or Sylar did. And I'm not sure I'm buying that Noah was so upset that he forgot years of professional training. Regardless, why take the chance? Nobody knew the abilities were coming back, or if they weren't? It's like the horror movies where they kill Jason or Michael Myers and then just walk off, instead of grabbing an axe and dismembering that sucker. And the point about Noah being shot in the head through the eye socket and surviving is a good one. he survived a massive head wound but Arthur didn't? --Gadfly 16:50, 10 December 2008 (EST)
    • Don't forget these facts:
      One; BOTH times Peter rose from dead, Claire was there. My interpretation: Peter's mimicry was probably actively scanning for something. With regard to the glass shard event, mimicry found Claire, and when the shard was removed, it mimicked the regen, presto! Patched right up. Ordinarily, Peter would have to remember the regen in order to use it. Now, Arthur, having absorbed regen, would also have to somehow recall the regen in order to use it. Assuming the bullet is still lodged in his brain, and maybe bounced around a little in the skull scrambling things further, he wont be able to regen. even if claire, another regen, were to be near his corpse, no go.
      Fact Two; with Noah, the bullet was more than likely removed prior to the application of the regen blood. Free of this obstruction, the regen blood could work it's magic. In addition, --SacValleyDweller (talk) 22:37, 10 December 2008 (EST)

The simplest way to say Arthur is dead is the following: he didn't start regenerating when the Haitian left the room, his powers wouldn't be blocked and he'd heal, but since the brain was damaged he couldn't and stayed dead. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:41, 10 December 2008 (EST)

  • From what we saw in the episode (including Intuitive Empath's point about him not regenerating), and the GN, I think we can say Arthur is dead for good. The whole 'can a bullet permanently kill a regen' thing has been a huge inconsistency from day one (and something of a pet peeve of mine), and it got worse and worse as time went along. I think we finally have definitive evidence that those with RCR can be killed by a bullet through the brain, and all of the contradictory evidence (and there was a bunch) can be dismissed as a plothole, and possibly recorded on the 'production errors' page. --Stevehim 18:00, 10 December 2008 (EST)
    • In all honesty I wouldn't be surprise if the writers later down the road make it where Aurthur's body is persevere. Then when someone will need him they remove the bullet out from his brain and allowing for the ability to take effect. Not saying that will happen, but simply saying I wouldn't be surprise if the writers were to do this. --OutbackZack 18:08, 10 December 2008 (EST)OutbackZack
      • Claire and Peter were both "killed" while still in full possession of their powers. Arthur and Future Peter were killed when their powers were blocked. That seems to be the defining factor. The ability is still there in Claire and Peter, probably on some sort of sleeper mode as the cerebellum tries to heal itself (but can't because of the obstruction). The ability (and all abilities) are mentally removed in Arthur and Future Peter, so they die just like human beings. And when the Haitian left, there was nothing left to go off "sleeper mode."--Tim Thomason 06:42, 19 December 2008 (EST)
        • But you forgot one thing. In The Eclipse, Part 2 Claire died without her powers. However, once the eclipse was over she regain her ability and came back to life.--OutbackZack 16:18, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Claire regenerated after dying during the Eclipse because there was nothing obstructing her brain, and the human mind remains active long after your death, so the return of her consciousness isn't a stretch when you think about it. In regards to the headshot=instant death idea; the reason Arthur died was because the Haitian was blocking his abilities at the time he was shot, and unlike Claire, he had a bullet in his brain to stop him from coming back (the same applies to Future Peter). Now if Adam was to be shot in the head, he wouldn't regenerate until the bullet was removed, so having likely never suffered such a fate, he assumed that recovering from such an injury would be impossible (which it would be without outside help). So, to put it shortly; a bullet in the brain CANNOT kill a regenerator, but it can permanently incapacitate them if no one is around to remove the bullet (see Peter and Claire for further reference). Veran 21:53, 25 February 2009 (EST)

  • I think the Haitian was just blocking his attack powers so Peter could shoot him. He was no longer blocking him at the end: Arthur slashed Peter's face with telekinesis. With Future Peter, I think the Haitain blocked his powers long enough for him to die, but his ability is different than Claire's, with Claire her body automaticaly regenerates but with Peter he has to activly recall that power and because the Haitain was blocking him he couldn't summon it at first and it was too late afterwards as he was too dead to summon it. I think Arthur doesn't have to summon regeneration, its always there as he stole it so his body contains it now. He only needs to summon abilities that need summoning. Its been proven that something to the back of the head can kill someone with abilities unless they're removed (Claire and Danko both said it), but Arthur was shot in the front of the head so that's a nitpick as he didn't regenerate from the front headshot. Claire said in Dual that that particular spot in the back of her head that putting something in that particular spot shuts down her abilities and shuts her down. My guess is that spot is the place in her brain where her ability is controled and obstructing it prevents the ability from working.--WarGrowlmon18 14:56, 26 February 2009 (EST)
    • I've got a theory about this: when I first saw the episode I thought that the bullet went all the way through his head. Given the Graphic Novel Truths I was probably right. My theory is that the bullet went right through that spot, destroying the brain there and taking it with it out the back of his head. With that piece of brain gone from the head, there would be nothing there to restart the regeneration power.--WarGrowlmon18 15:09, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Real Life: Man grows back finger.

I know we all look at these powers and tell ourselves, "If only that was real..." Here's a cool article on a new medical discovery that allowed for a man to grow back a part of his missing finger. I just thought it was too cool to not fill the fellow Heroes fans on.--OutbackZack 05:40, 19 December 2008 (EST)OutbackZack

Rapid Cellular Regeneration

I know 'cell' is just a shorter word for 'cellular', but shouldn't we have the whole correct term that has been said in the show multiple times? When it comes to scientific names for abilities, this one has been named and said in full. I remember it being called just cellular regeneration but I don't remember anyone calling it 'cell' regeneration. --Powermimic 20:56, 19 December 2008 (EST)

  • Good point. If the source stated above is the Genesis files, and the Genesis files call the ability "Rapid cellular regeneration" explicitly, it follows that this article should be called "Rapid cellular regeneration". I'll add the rename template.--Referos 19:37, 27 December 2008 (EST)
    • could this be the first unanimous name-change decision? --Max 17:58, 30 December 2008 (EST)
      • Close, but not quite. While I agree it is a tiny bit more explicit, we'd have to go through tons and tons and tons of pages just to change one word. "Cell" is close enough to "cellular", we don't need to do a complete revamp.--Piemanmoo 18:05, 30 December 2008 (EST)
        • According to our naming conventions, laziness doesn't trump explicit canon sources :D Besides, we don't have to change all instances of "cell", just the portals, list of abilities and Claire's and Adam's page. Rapid cell regeneration is still a valid name for all the other articles of the Wiki, like epithelial cell regeneration or tissue regeneration.--Referos 19:59, 30 December 2008 (EST)
    • While the Genesis files call it "rapid celluluar regeneration", Claire's Pinehearst file calls it "rapid cell regeneration". --Ricard Desi (t,c) 11:20, 3 January 2009 (EST)
  • Any admins have an opinion or going to fix this? --Powermimic 07:30, 3 January 2009 (EST)
    • I don't have an opinion one way or another. Both forms of the name have been explicitly given in canon sources. They are compatible with each other. One name should not be preferred over the other. If I have an opinion, it would be that we don't need to make major changes to a name that is as valid as another. But if the changes were made, I wouldn't stop them. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:10, 3 January 2009 (EST)
      • Agree, as per RGS's sentiments. It'd just be unneeded work. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 19:30, 3 January 2009 (EST)
        • I agree with RGS and Thrash they are both valid forms of the same power, there isn't any need to change one word. --laughingdevilboy 09:15, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Healing

Just a note of clarification here. The term "healing" has been used to describe two different powers: Linderman's ability to heal others, and Claire's ability to heal herself. We should not imply that these are the same powers, or that they have any relation to one another other than in name. In other words, we should not link to healing on this page as it implies the two powers have something to do with each other, or that one is an aspect of the other. The only links to healing that belong on this page are those that help diambiguate the terms. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:18, 4 January 2009 (EST)

something of some importance

my friend has noticed something about rapid cell regeneration...he states "...why does future peter have a scar, he cant have a scar because he has the ability to heal, so at any moment he is injured, he should be able to heal at that instant without the delayed healing. And even if he did gain a scar, isnt a scar just damaged tissue, so the scar should heal itself the moment it shows up..." also if the shanti virus was to stop evolved humans from using their powers, doesnt that also mean that it stops rapid cell regeneration and if the people were really unlucky then the virus could combind itself to become a rapid cell regenerative shanti virus?

Peter might not have healed because he didn't have the healing ability in that future, or some say that healing might not work when time is stopped, and the scar came from Hiro's sword. I personally, amongst others, think that the scar will never actually appear in the present, and is just a red herring and is insiginifcant. -- Tristan0709 talk 04:07, 12 January 2009 (EST)
Personally, I'm convinced that he has just received his scar, from his father. He managed to duck out of the way JUST in time (else it would have caught him right between the eyes as normal). Cause: no healing powers at the time. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 12:51, 12 January 2009 (EST)
But the thing is, is that peter if peter has ever gained his power back that would mean that anything that was previously damaged would be healed, so really shouldnt that mean that peters scar should heal in an instant?...its like giving giving adams blood to nathan, anything damages should instantly heal, therefore the scar should heal...and im talking about the future peter in season 1 not season 3...season 3 is easily explainable...peter lost his powers and was able to gain most of them back but rapid cell regeneration, hence the scar...rapid cell regeneration states that "the ability to regenerate cells at an increased rate, resulting in physical injuries healing"...a scar is a physical injury...peter from season 1 has in fact exploded and as shown has regenerated back...apparently with a scar...how he obtained the scar is what me and my friend are pointing at... No one 23:30, 12 January 2009
Nope. If Peter completely heals before getting regeneration, the scar would stay, cause even if it's scar tissue, the tissue itself isn't damaged, so no regeneration. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 06:21, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Maya's Ability and the Shanti Virus

if you had this ability. Would you be effected by Maya's ability and the shanti virus?

Not the right page to ask about either subject, but all that is known about these two things together is that in the original season two ending, Mohinder took Maya to Costa Verder where she used her ability to absorb the virus into herself, healing everyone. And I don't think she died doing that, so there you go. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 08:12, 12 January 2009 (EST)
On top of this, the Virus affects powers first, before killing you, so I imagine that yes, someone with RCR could be infected and die from the Virus. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 12:52, 12 January 2009 (EST)

Spot in the back of the head and killing a Regenerator

In several episodes its been shown that putting something into a spot in the back of the head of a regenerator will kill them, at least until its removed. Claire said that putting something there shuts her down so my guess is that's the part of the brain that controls the power and with something obstructing it, it can't work. Claire and Danko have both said that that spot is a regenerator's weakness and someone even called it their "sweet spot." It makes sense that the show would include this weakness: everyone has some kind of weakness no matter how powerful they are. This is just Claire, Sylar and Arthur's weakness. This weakness has been shown as far back as season 1: Claire and the branch and Peter and the glass. My guess is his body automaticaly mimicked her power and that's why he was able to regenerate after the glass was removed otherwise he probably would have died if it was someone else who did it without Claire as he has to activly summon the power unless the person is right there. Now this all makes sense, but with Arthur when he was shot the bullet was sent into the front of his brain not the back. So the bullet wouldn't have hit that spot. When I first saw the shot I thought that the bullet had gone all the way through his head and if it did it could have destroyed the brain at that particular spot, but otherwise it goes against what has been said about killing someone with this power.--WarGrowlmon18 15:06, 26 February 2009 (EST)

  • The show has established that heavy damage to the brain will permanantly kill a healer. Adam: There's no coming back from that.(to Peter) My best guess is that damaging that part of the brain will shut down the ability at least temporarily, but heavy damage to another part of the brain will kill a healer all the same. --Darmenos 14:43, 27 February 2009 (EST)

main image

I think that one of these pictures would be good for the main image.-- Catalyst · Talk · HL 20:54, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

  • Nah, the current one shows the toe growing, we don't get that idea from those two. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 21:02, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
    • But the second one I think it is, of Adam on the ground, he's getting up from a shotgun blast to the chest from a close range.-- Catalyst · Talk · HL 21:18, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

Microscopic spot in brain

I think it's speculative to say that Sylar has gained more control over his ability, and therefore the "kill spot" in his brain is only microscopic. First, we've always known that regenerators have that spot in their brains--there's no evidence that Sylar's is any larger or smaller than others'. Second, there's no evidence that Sylar has "more control" over this ability than others. In fact, there's no evidence that he has any control over it at all. But even if he did, there's no link between control over the ability and the size of the kill spot. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:48, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

  • I think he just meant that since the spot is so small, it's kinda hard to hit. Sticking something in is easy, but hitting it unless your at point-blank range to the spot, it can be missed.--WarGrowlmon18 21:01, 4 April 2009 (EDT)
    • But danko stabbed right into sylars brain and he was able to get up like it was nothing. I guess you really do have to hit the sweet-spot.Gamerelite1 22:16, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

Sylar's inexplicable surviving the glass in the "sweet spot"

It was so confusing for several episodes how he survived that. It had been said that putting something in the back of the brain would kill someone with that power and yet he somehow survived. Well now at least we know and that plot hole's been closed: the fire melted the glass. But here's a question; can fire really melt glass like that???--WarGrowlmon18 22:29, 6 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Sure! Have Sylar face up and the fire get hort enogh the glass will drip out. Now, what gets me, when I think about it, is the suspension of disbelief it takes to believe that Sylar's body was able to stay valid enough to regen after exposure to that extraordinarily hot temperature. But, it's a TV show, so anything can happen! :) --SacValleyDweller (talk) 01:26, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Problem with that is he was face down when Claire killed him. As for that last comment, Claire's body was able to regenerate after being horribly burned by the radiation from Ted in Company Man. That's no problem. And she was dead for at least a little while in The Eclipse Part 2. Also she was dead for several hours in season 1 after Brody accidentaly killed her and before the mortican accidently revived her. I think the glass just melted in Sylar's head, it didn't have to drip out, it just had to melt and no longer impede that spot.--WarGrowlmon18 11:27, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Claire was able to regenerate after standing next to Sylar when he blew up Costa Verde.

Turn and Face the Strange

Should it be noted that Sylar seemed to stop himself from regenerating right after Noah shot him?He may have just "played possum", but he also said he squeezed more blood out "just for show".--Sylar Fan09 18:00, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

Speed of healing

I was just thinking of how when healing is used to decive someone they seem to be able to make their "injured state" last for longer than if they just want to get up and heal. E.g. Clair being shot by Matt to fool Ted, she was able to "wait(?)" until she got upstairs until she healed, as opposed to Peter shot (twice) in the bar in Ireland and he got up almost straight up and pined him to the wall. --Omni314 19:54, 24 April 2009

  • I think she was just faking that she was still injured, the wound was under her shirt, so she bled a little and pretended to be down until she was out of sight. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 21:14, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
  • It could be possible, wasnt there an epsiode where Sylar was stabbed in the back or something and he waited a while until he regenerated again? --Scorvi12 08:26, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
    • Danko stabbed him in the back of the head, but Sylar had already moved the killspot elsewhere, so he stayed down like two seconds and got up. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:53, 16 May 2009 (EDT)

A long time ago, during an autopsy far far away...

Blue sparks ran across Claire's skin as she was putting it together.

I think that was just some weird reflection.--ERROR 18:14, 14 September 2009 (EDT)

Alteration Appearence will make the ability grow stronger

Sylar has shown with shapeshifter that the weak spots moves to different location, and maybe reduce the size 1st 1 we are sure second one we are not sure if Clair teams up with somebody with a alteration appearence then she can fight people and risk of her dying becomes limited.50000JH

I'm sorry, what?--ERROR 18:14, 14 September 2009 (EDT)

An Observation of Very Minor Importance

The article notes that Sylar stated that the "sweet spot" is microscopic. That's alright, because he did say that, BUT, it goes on, and it says that in order to hit the "sweet spot," one would need to either be a very good shot, OR have intimate knowledge of where it is. I think you would need either both of those, or just a big, sharp, object. I realize this is a very minor observation, but I still want to share it. Remove if too minor.--ERROR 18:14, 14 September 2009 (EDT)

Random Question

I was wondering: If Claire or someone else with RCR decided to work out, would they get really fit? What I mean is, since they heal, wouldn't their muscles be constantly tearing and repairing themselves, making them really buff? ZaxbeezZaxbeez

That, in fact, is already in the rapid cellular regeneration theory page.--ERROR 20:38, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

Needs to activate it when heads are cut open.

When Sylar both cut Peter and Claire head none of them regenerate straight away, being a Passive ability it would made sense as the cut appear it would disappear again in a fraction of a second. Even through Peter use it Sylar had 3/4 of his cut off but Claire had all her head cut off. User:50000JH/signature

  • Peter did regenerate almost immediately, and as for Claire... hmm... neither did she regenerate in Volume One on autopsy table until she put her skin together. Although that case would be really weird, I'm not sure why the top of Claire's head didn't just grow back. Arrghh, that Volume Three. AltesUTC CH

Blood was seen coming from Peter when Sylar was cutting it open.User:50000JH/signature

  • Yes. that's usually what happens when you get cut.

Can someone with this ability die from a tumor?

Because Noah said that since a tumor is living tissue, and injecting Hiro with Claire's blood would only make his grow faster, wouldn't that mean that those who have this ability can die from a tumor that keeps getting bigger and bigger?--Ratclaws 17:24, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

  • I don't think a person who has this ability can develop a tumor in the first place. Noah only said that Claire's blood wouldn't work on Hiro because he already had a tumor, and the blood would make it grow faster. Although I might be wrong, I don't think Claire could ever get a tumor in the first place. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:29, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
    • If by some off chance she got one, such as being implanted, I think her ability would either push it out of her body, in a gross way, or it would keep fighting it as long as she's alive, reaching a balance. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:16, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
      • I'm fairly certain she can't develop a tumor. Thanks like tumors and aging happen due to damage to the dna. Dna damage comes from the simple fact that a persons cells reproduce imperfectly. It appears that people with RCR have a perfect form of mitosis that never results in dna damage. Hence why they can live forever.
        • I believe she could. Firstly there's the haitian. Secondly, there's an eclipse. She'd just need to exposed to radiation while the haitian or the eclipse were around. --mc_hammark 16:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)
          • Well the eclipse wouldn't last long enough for her to actually develop a tumor. Maybe with the hatian, but most likely her power would allow her to fight off the tumor unlike someone who just has a blood infusion.
            • Actually, Hiro could freeze time along with Claire and Ted (who he got by going back in time). During this time Claire is exposed to Ted's radiation. After waiting for several days, the radiation takes effect and Claire develops a brain tumour. Hiro unfreezes time and as time progresses Claire's ability makes the tumour grow faster. --mc_hammark 17:49, 24 October 2009 (EDT)
              • If time is frozen, how would she grow a tumor?Gamerelite1 15:37, 11 November 2009 (EST)
                • She's outside of time like Hiro. --mc_hammark 15:38, 11 November 2009 (EST)
                  • then she wouldn't get a tumor because her body would kill any cancer cells.Gamerelite1 20:12, 15 November 2009 (EST)
                    • Not if the haitian was blocking her ability. --mc_hammark 03:44, 16 November 2009 (EST)
                        • Ok. so if she doesn't have her ability, she can get hurt. Glad you discovered this.Gamerelite1 20:11, 7 December 2009 (EST)

A thought on regrowing body parts

In the Lizards episode, Claire cuts off one of her toes which then grows back. Although, in The Second Coming, Sylar examines her brain for quite some time, without the top of her head showing any signs of regenerating. It only heals when the part that was cut off is put back by Sylar. This doesn't seem very logical to me, since the head is as much a body part as a toe. Her brain also seemed intact while it was visible, so I personally don't think that is has something to do with her brain being damaged.

In The Second Coming, Claire also didn't seem to be able to move when her head had been cut open. Was this because she was actually paralyzed or "just" scared? She was able to talk and move her face though. So, what do you think? Wouldn't it have made more sense if her head had regenerated? Or did Sylar "block" her power is some way temporarily? --Helix 15:42, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

  • I think the fact she had something lodged in her head (Sylar's finger(s)) stopped it from doing so, and there was a time delay before her toe grew back, so I'm thinking that the time between his removing his finger and putting her head back is in the same kind of time frame. That or, it only works with limbs. --mc_hammark 15:46, 28 October 2009 (EDT)
I think she couldn't move because Sylar was using TK to keep her in place. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:11, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

Shot through the Brain

I'm really confused, wouldn't Claire die like Arthur if she got shot through the brain but in "An Invisible Thread" she makes out that she would live.. --Scorvi12 03:02, 16 November 2009 (EST)

  • But does the guy that she stood up to know that? --mc_hammark 14:09, 16 November 2009 (EST)
    • It depends on whether he hits the spot or not, and according to sylar, it's very unlikely that it will happen.

aka

When was this ability refered to as epithelial cell regeneration? I can't ever remember this being mentioned unless it was in an interview or something. If someone could let me know and leave a link if there is one. If it's just something that a fan has said then it should be removed. Thanks. --mc_hammark 13:39, 3 January 2010 (EST)

  • It was called that in the Genesis files I belive --Leckie -- Talk 14:21, 3 January 2010 (EST)
  • Actually I was wrong, that would be the Moziac file. Mohinder shows the file to Nathan when he is explaining Peter's ability to him. -- Leckie -- Talk 14:25, 3 January 2010 (EST)

Peter's Regeneration

I'm just curious about this. I don't know if theis is discussed before here, but is Claire's regeneration weaker than Peter's(when he still has Empathic Mimicry in the first season), though Claire naturally held the ability? When Sylar tried to open Peter's skull in Season 1, his regeneration quickly kicked in, quickly repairing the incision and ultimately refusing/preventing the brain removal attempt of Sylar. But when Sylar did the same thing to Claire, her regenration did not kick in quickly enough to prevent Sylar from prying open her skull. Am I correct here? Was this already explained in a discussion here or something? Just curious...can anyone be kind enough to explain this, if you have any explanation? Realistic

  • The way I see it, Claire's was never conscious, it was always a passive ability. Peter on the other hand, had to remember Claire to heal, so the sooner he remembered her, the faster he regenerated. Another point to note is that the more powerful a character is, the more control they seem to have over passive abilities, like in V4 when Sylar squeezes all the blood out of his body before healing after Noah shoots him in shapeshifted form. --mc_hammark 07:51, 17 January 2010 (EST)
    • Sylar could also have used telekinesis to make sure the skin stayed separated, if you recall, Sylar stopped cutting Peter's head when he noticed he was healing. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:14, 17 January 2010 (EST)

2 problems

I have two issues I'd like to bring up: one old and one, from what I can tell, new.

First, the old... it has long been debated about the "permanent death" aspect of regenerators. We currently have it as: "In several episodes it has been stated or shown that an individual with the ability can be permanently killed. It is stated by Adam Monroe that if a person with the power is decapitated or the brain is severally damaged the ability to heal is canceled out and leaving the individual permanently dead (Out of Time)(Truth & Consequences)."
Now, first of all, the only instance we have "seen" of perma-death is Arthur, but we don't know if that is simply because the bullet remains lodged inside his head or not (unless the GNs provided us with more info I'm unaware of). As such, we have the second part, which is what Adam Monroe stated.
I'm still not sure why we are taking Adam's opinion (even bolstered by Angela and Victoria) over Sylar's. Sylar specifically states, in several episodes, that he and Claire cannot be killed. Add to that the fact that his ability let's him see how things work (almost always as much or more than any expert in the show), and I'd say we have enough evidence that the matter should at the very least be classified as non-definitive (ie - We should not say that regenerators can be permanently killed, as we do not have proof of that...personally, I feel that the evidence actually points the other way).
While this issue may have been "put to rest" in the past, the current episode gives us reason to resurrect it, as Sylar specifically states, several times, that neither he nor Claire can be killed, even listing them as "immortal." I'm not going to change anything yet, since it's better to discuss things first and get a consensus, but I truly don't see how we can honestly maintain the paragraph as it is (again, unless I missed something in the GNs or elsewhere that absolutely declares that a regenerator can be killed, and that Sylar was either wrong or lying).

Second, the new...Claire cannot feel pain since Sylar opened up her head, but Sylar stole her power AND knows exactly how it works (after some serious examination of her brain). Yet Sylar can still, obviously, feel pain (eg - pencil in the eye). This seems incongruent to me, but it should still be noted somewhere. --Stevehim 00:59, 20 January 2010 (EST)

  • I didn't read the first question--too long. Sorry. But to answer your second question, Claire felt pain after the eclipse. It was a momentary anomaly that lasted a few episodes. Nothing incongruous. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:09, 20 January 2010 (EST)
    • But, in Let It Bleed Claire cut herself when cutting the lemon and limes, and she didn't heal and she said that it was good to feel pain again. Which means she can't feel pain still. I always thought Sylar did something to her nerves when he opened up her head. --Scorvi12 07:16, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • Since season one, it was stated that Claire did feel pain, but she could resist it much better, as if her pain wasn't the same sensation as other people's pain. I think the absolutely no pain from season 3 was just an emotional problem she got over it; in Let It Bleed, she probably just meant that it's good to feel "true" pain again, because she normaly feel a "reduced" pain. Regarding the permanent death thing, I would say it's a contradiction between canon sources, so we should just list both possibilities (regenerator can/cannot be permanently killed) and let the reader decided what's the correct option.--Referos 08:46, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • Pain is the body's way to tell the brain that something is bad for it. Most likely, Claire's body became used to the ability, it already "knows" that bruises and stuff like that aren't as harmful cause it knows Claire will heal. On the immortality thing, LotR fans forgive me if I got it wrong, but Sylar could be saying immortality in that same context. Other than violence and injuries, they'll live forever. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:46, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • Re: Claire's pain...if we are maintaining that she once again feels pain, however briefly, then I think this should be rephrased, as it reads like she doesn't at all: "However, since having her brain examined by Sylar (The Second Coming), Claire has stated that she no longer feels pain of any kind, although when demonstrating the power to Gretchen, she pretended she did for a second." (Personally, I am in the camp that she doesn't feel pain, and that he Let It Bleed comments were literal...assuming she meant something like "real pain" is assuming, and something we can't really do...I would also accept IE's explanation, though that amounts to the same thing...that she no longer feels pain).
          Re: Immortality...first, I'll better space the previous post in case anyone wants to read it (meant to do that initially and forgot). Done. As for the immortality thing, to say that he meant "immortality provided that..." seems to be, imo, trying to interpret his words in a specific fashion to support a pre-existing notion...namely that regenerators can be killed. One could do the same with Adam's words (or Angela's, or Victoria's), and say that what they meant by permanent or "no coming back from that," was that it's permanent as long as the brain remains destroyed/impeded (ie - has an object in it, or remains separated...eg - part kept in a metal box so it cannot 'reform' with another part)
          My basic point is that awhile ago we had a big discussion about 'what authorities to trust in the show, and iirc, it was decided that when conflicting comments are made, we go with the higher authority. Due to his specific knowledge of how the power works, which is unmatched as far as we know by anyone else in the show 9including Chandra and Mohinder), I would think Sylar's opinion should prevail based on the criteria we set. At the very least, an opposing opinion should NOT prevail since it was stated by people less in the know, and think Referos' suggestion is the best course of action.
          --Stevehim 11:31, 20 January 2010 (EST)

Canon...RCR permakills...please weigh in

Since we are having great debates with regards to naming conventions and canon, I would like to bring this up again (as it's been a pet peeve of mine for some time now). This time I'll keep it short though...why are we taking the collective words of Angela, Victoria and Adam over Sylar with regards to whether or not someone with RCR can be permanently killed? All sources are the same level (canon), which means we go to the most expertise. On the one hand we have 2 company founders and someone who has lived (not died) with RCR for 400 years. On the other we have someone who understands how things work and has examined the brain (for the longest we've seen him ever do so) of an RCR and then take the power. Further, Sylar (and thus the writers) keep on stating, over and over, that RCR's cannot die. Form my POV, once Sylar used his IA to examine the brain, that puts him at the top of the list of experts...even above Chandra and Mohinder, since they never got to study brains directly like that. Does anyone object to me revising the bit about them being permanently killed to illustrate that it is unclear at this point? --Stevehim 04:51, 11 February 2010 (EST)

  • I think it's a matter of semantics. Given enough regeneration, they cannot (naturally) die. No disease will kill them, and they will never grow old. However, they can be killed (the "Kill Spot"). That said, even then if whatever "killed" them is removed, they come back to life. The exception being a destroyed-enough head (Victoria attempting to shoot both Peter and Adam in the head a shotgun blast, "I knew blowing your head off was the only way to be sure." and "There's no coming back from that one.", for example). In short, they cannot die, but they can be killed temporarily, unless the head is destroyed while temp-dead. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 10:07, 11 February 2010 (EST)
    • I believe that RCR immortality is akin to elf immortality (LotR fans, don't smite me), from the little I understand and know about LotR, elves are immortal in the sense they have biological immortality. However, they can be killed through violence and harm. In RCR case, that's just a lot harder. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:20, 11 February 2010 (EST)
      • At least 3 people with RCR HAVE been killed. Either by taking their powers, with Adam, neutralising their powers with Future Peter, or blowing their heads into bits with Arthur.--Cro Magnon 12:35, 11 February 2010 (EST)
  1. Re: Ricard - That is not what has been stated by Sylar. He explicitly stated that he 'couldn't kill Claire, even if he wanted to.' If it was simply a matter of fully destroying the head while temp-dead, Sylar had any means of doing that to her. But since he said he couldn't, we have to take his words at meaning there is literally no way to permanently kill her.
  2. Re: IE - Interesting theory, but that's speculation. We can't really draw on a select interpretation of 'immortality,' to suit our purposes. Sylar has claimed he will live forever, that he's immortal, and that he could not kill Claire, even if he wanted to. That seems pretty definitive to me, and all of that comes after any comments made by anyone about being able to perma-kill a RCR EH. (Incidentally, while it is true the Elves were immortal and yet could be killed, it's more complicated than that...they also would inevitably fade away and be forced to leave ME, could choose to become human and give up their immortality, and sometimes be resurrected. As such, that 'brand of immortality' should not be applied here, imo).
  3. Re: Cro Magnon - Since Adam's power was taken, he does not qualify for having the ability, and so he wasn't a RCR EH when killed. Both Future Peter and Arthur could just as easily have obstructions in their kill spot...afaik, it has never been confirmed anywhere that neither can come back, nor that either sustained more serious brain injuries than what we've seen Peter, Claire and Sylar all return from (and in both cases, others have had similar injuries and returned, so that would be another contradiction).


What I am saying is that, from my POV, all of the arguments so far are aimed at choosing certain interpretations to make Sylar's comments fit with other people's...we don't generally do that in other cases, do we? To me, this still comes down to directly conflicting data, which then comes down to a matter of expertise, which is covered in the naming conventions.
It's also only one line, so I was hoping nobody would care making it less speculative. :) --Stevehim 12:49, 11 February 2010 (EST)

  • Like I said, my knowledge of LotR is limited, all I know is what I saw in the movies, and I only saw each once. The only things I remembered on elf immortality was what I put in my theory. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:17, 11 February 2010 (EST)
    • I know...I was just clarifying (and greatly simplifying, as there is a bit more to it than what I stated as well) Elf immortality a bit. :) --Stevehim 13:42, 11 February 2010 (EST)
  • To keep beating this horse, as per the stated canon rules:

    "However, when two canon sources contradict one another, each statement would require another canon source to be wrong, meaning either statement requires speculation, and neither can legitimately be treated as a canon source without requiring an explanation of the conflict. Since such an explanation necessarily breaks the article's in-world perspective, it should be confined to the Notes section."

    Can someone explain to me how this is not the case here in a way that does not rely on us speculating about the definition of words and phrases like 'immortality' and 'live forever?' --Stevehim 18:31, 16 February 2010 (EST)

    • To be honest, him saying he couldn't kill her if he tried could allude to anything. Perhaps he realizes (using a certain ability to understand the variables in how things work) that trying to kill Claire tends to attract attention. Any attempt to actually KILL Claire would undoubtedly be prevented by a time traveler or someone who recognizes her importance. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:43, 16 February 2010 (EST)
      • Alternatively, he may see the importance of the Catalyst in her, hence calling her special, even among the special. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:44, 16 February 2010 (EST)
        • Aside from the fact that what you're stating is complete speculation, that's not what he said. He said: "I couldn't kill you, even if I wanted to," (not counting the other 3 or 4 times he's indicated immortality). In any case, I could apply your same argument to anything any of the others said. Maybe Adam meant 'There's no coming back from that,' to be 'there's no coming back from that psychologically.' Honestly, you're basically trying to interpret what Sylar said to fit in with the previous canon statement we have, which isn't what we're supposed to be doing, afaik. --Stevehim 18:56, 16 February 2010 (EST)
          • I'm speculating and postulating, yes, but only in response to your claim that one statement by Sylar throws the entire canon out of whack. Because we've seen in the show what does and does not temporarily and permanently kill a regenerator. Sylar had never even temporarily died at that point, but Adam (who had the ability for over 300 years) appears quite certain of the permanence of a killing stroke that obliterates the head. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 19:03, 16 February 2010 (EST)
            • First of all, it was at least 3 separate statements by Sylar, if not more. Second, how is what Sylar says any less canon than what Angela, Victoria, and Adam have said? We should not be 'trying to make new information fit with old,' nor should we be assuming that if it is old info, it should be kept. Re: Adam...are you saying that Adam is a more informed source than Sylar? I'd very much disagree. Clearly, Adam has never suffered an obliteration of the head, so I fail to see how he'd come by that information, unless he saw it happen to someone else, of which there isn't even a shred of evidence. On the other hand, we have Sylar, who examined Claire's brain with his power, which to me, makes him as much of an expert as anyone in the history of the show. --Stevehim 19:08, 16 February 2010 (EST)
  • As a compromise, I would propose adding "However, Sylar has referred to himself and Claire as immortal (Pass/Fail), as well as stating that she can never die, and that he could not kill Claire, even if he wanted to. (The Second Coming) Stated in such a way, I can't see any objection to this, but figured I'd at least see what people had to say before adding it. --Stevehim 19:31, 16 February 2010 (EST)
    • At the moment, we have conflicting sources of the same tier. What we need to account now is how much a character knows about the subject (knows/has/understands the ability) and how many characters say what (Adam, Angela, Victoria and Sylar). Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:33, 16 February 2010 (EST)
      • Actually, I would be inclined to agree that there is something specific about Claire (and thus Sylar) that she simply cannot die ever. Sylar said outright that Claire's brain "wasn't like the others". Followed by "You're different. You're special. And I couldn't kill you, even if I wanted to. You can never die. And now I guess neither can I." --Ricard Desi (t,c) 00:34, 17 February 2010
        • Any ideas on how to proceed? I'd argue Sylar has the most knowledge of the subject, due to his ability, then Victoria (who studied such things), then Angela and/or Adam. That's just my opinion though. If we can't decide who has authority, do we just list everything and say 'it's unclear at this time,' or do we remove it all? Should we ask one of the admins? --Stevehim 20:16, 16 February 2010 (EST)
          • I wouldn't list Adam so low, he had the ability and lived with for about four centuries. Angela and Victoria are the bottom ones for me. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:21, 16 February 2010 (EST)
            • I thought about that, and it's true; having lived for 400 years he would have been able to test his powers a lot. On the other hand, he would not have any idea of the 'science' behind it (whereas Victoria, and by extension Angela would), and he certainly wouldn't have been able to test the 'perma-death' thing. Still, I suppose I can see that he'd be equal to (or possibly more informed than) Victoria and Angela. What I do remain steadfast on is that Sylar knows more than all of them; separately or combined. For powers that Sylar has acquired (via brain examination), I don't think there's anyone who can really match him...including Chandra and Mohinder. --Stevehim 22:12, 16 February 2010 (EST)
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