Talk:Samuel Sullivan

Terrakinesis

Should we include his known ability as Terrakinesis? Joshua Korolenko

• We don't know for sure if that's his power. For all wthat was shown in the promo vid, it could be just telekinesis. I think it's terrakinesis as well, but let's just wait for confirmation. Until then, it could go in the theories section of this page. -- Psilaq R.- \m/ -_- \m/- 10:59, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
• Why is Terrakinesis listed in his infobox if its not confirmed yet? --Snow Leapord 18:51, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
  • I think it was confirmed somewhere. But I may be wrong.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 18:56, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
    • The only place I ever saw it saying it was terrakinesis was at the ODI. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:05, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
      • After Strange Attractors i think isn't only Terrakinesis. He can teleport the Carnival (See Ink) or maybe he can teleport the other people without touch them. But i think is the 1st. TanderixUTCR 15:37 (Italy), 27 October 2009 (EDT)
        • Not necessarily his doing, he could have had another carny with an ability that would allow that do it, but stay hidden, so Samuel could make a dramatic effect. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:22, 27 October 2009 (EDT)
          • Yes, this is possible TanderixUTCR 21:00 (ItalY), 27 October 2009 (EDT)
            • I thought that was Arnold's doing, since he can teleport people places without going with him. Can't he? daevon 16:05, 27 October 2009 (EDT)

Main Character?

I could be wrong, but wasn't he listed as a guest star in the opening credits? --Skullman1392 22:16, 21 September 2009 (EDT)

• ummm I really dont remember. on another note is his ability really terrakinesis? and whats with the ink thing? by the way amazing premier. -Tsmarg
  • I'm positive he was listed with the guest cast, and thus cannot be considered a main character. --Skullman1392 07:52, 22 September 2009 (EDT)
    • He was credited on-screen as a guest star, but in the press releases he is credited as a regular. This is similar to David Anders in early Season Two, his status was changed eventually. -- Tristan0709 talk 02:59, 23 September 2009 (EDT)
      • Still considered guest cast... I vote he should be removed from the main cast (on our site, obviously) untill he is listed as part of the main caston the show. Technically we have no cannon evidence he is main cast, and again, maybe the bigshots at Heroes decided they don't want him around for long and changed his status. If he becomes listed with the main cast, he can thus be changed back. --Skullman1392 22:34, 28 September 2009 (EDT)

Arnold

How do you know his name is Arnold. Does he call him that, during the episode? --Janrodrigo 10:28, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

• A page has already been created for this character, and it lists his name as Ronald. AltesUTC CH
  • That page is named incorrectly. Edgar asks Samuel if the "Chinese guy" is going to replace Arnold. Also Jack Wallace is credited as Arnold. See Arnold. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:17, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

Abilities

Do we know for sure that his ability is terrakinesis? Because of those tattoo things, I thought he had could do something else. Any thoughts? - Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 11:38, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

• Maybe he developed his ability and may be able to do some randomly different things? AltesUTC CH
  • For some reason, I feel that he is either like he has multiple powers (Terrakinesis: when he moves the earth; Some Ink Ability: When he manipulates the ink; Telekinesis or something like that: When he keeps the pins from falling.) - Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 11:57, 22 September 2009 (EDT)
    • Ink-okinesis, yeah. :-P AltesUTC CH
      • Technically, the proper name for Ink Manipulation is Melanokinesis... Nut could also be counted as using Terrakinesis upon Mineral-Based ink.--NW 15:52, 31 January 2010 (EST)
      • Lol. If it's actually Imprinting, than maybe we named it wrong. I think he has a form of Empathic Mimicry, but maybe a bit more selective. - Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 12:02, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

+The actor confirmed in that LotsOfInterviews interview that was his character's ability. He said something about the minerals in the ink is the reason he can move in round. --OutbackZack 13:48, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

• If he has Empathic mimicry, he wouldn't need to ask Ronald to send him back in time. --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 14:55, 22 September 2009 (EDT)
  • Then maybe he has another ability that allows him to have multiple abilities. - Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 16:39, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

Have we thought, maybe he can control earth and ink...it's possible that they share some of the same composite minerals--Anthony Gooch 16:35, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

and he may have been controling this mystery mineral stated above to control the metal bottles that he threw to convince Hiro at the carnaval.

• Well at the moment it says

Using his strange tattoo power once again, images of Claire, Sylar, and Peter appear on Lydia's back.

Evolved Human Abilities Samuel has the ability to move earth.

So it needs to be changed, should we wait for the next episode to shed some light on it?-- By Danko CH 16:46, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

We could change it to something link "control mineral materials". Ink can have those. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:57, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

• I would guess that he is an empath like Peter. The reasons I suspect this is that he seemed quite interested in discovering that Peter 'was' and empath by Edgar. Also, it would explain why he can do tricks with ink and manipulate the earth. It is entirely possible that Lydia's ability is ink manipulation (or whatever) and the other guy (being buried) had terrakinisis, or someone else from the carnival. -Barbedknives (talk)21:18, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

• • I think his brother Joseph was the Empath thats why he was interested in Peter, and he said it on the last episode that he controls the earth on his feet.--Darkfiremaster13 06:26, 30 September 2009 (EDT)

Name it Samuel's ability, just like with Mohinder. =\ AltesUTC CH

• • • Actually i thought he said he could control the earth under his own feet. Meesa yoda 21:53, 30 September 2009 (EDT)
      • Sorry my mistake, but it still proves that he have Terrakinesis and was not an Empath right? I think that is why he was interested in Peter cause their group needed another Empath to "replace" the past Empath on the group (I'm guessing it was Joseph). Like Hiro doing something that Arnold couldn't do because he was old and weak --Darkfiremaster13 05:44, 1 October 2009 (EDT)

just noticed some nice trivia

Samuel uses the name bill hooper as his alias, this is also the name of the man who wrote about the mysterious drownings in nathan's newspaper at the end of volume 4.

• They're both named after Bill Hooper, a script coordinator for Heroes and a graphic novelist. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:28, 5 October 2009 (EDT)

Anyone hope he doesn't die?

• Since Heroes has a long trend of killing off its villians during or after one volume (look at Adam, Arthur, Knox, Flint, Maury, and now Danko), it's likely Samuel will meet the same fate. I for one really hope this doesn't happen for once, because Samuel's a fairly unique main villian by the show's standards. He's not uber-powerful like Arthur or Sylar, but is strong enough to be a threat by himself, unlike Danko or Adam (who was just more durable then an average human). Anyone else hope he sticks around for a while?Swm 08:55, 8 October 2009 (EDT)
• Yes. Also, I don't see him as a villain. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:15, 8 October 2009 (EDT)
  • He killed lots of people? And you don't see him as villain??? WaterRatj 19:44, 8 October 2009 (EDT)
    • No, I don't. He's killed three people by my count. Noah has killed more than that. Even Ted has a higher kill rate than that. I'm not saying Samuel is not going to become a villain, I'm just saying I don't see him as one right now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:22, 8 October 2009 (EDT)
      • You can't compare noah with the three people he killed in the sinkhole WaterRatj 21:00, 8 October 2009 (EDT)
      • Who did he kill? Or was that all in the webisode, GN, and iStories? ~~IHH—Talk 20:28, 8 October 2009 (EDT)
        • Three people died in the sinkhole. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:34, 8 October 2009 (EDT)
          • Still its a murder, that doesn't mean i want him to die, he can become good, but now he's going to the evil path WaterRatj 20:40, 8 October 2009 (EDT)
            • I just see him as a really confused guy who just wants to fill the gap his brother left when he died. He's actually kind of neutral -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 18:35, 12 October 2009 (EDT)
              • My sister read somewhere that he was only destined to shoot six episodes, but they extended his contract before volume 5 starts airing. Hopefully the carnival remains for the rest of the show, it was good to have character(s) that you can't tell if they were a villain or a hero.--Darkfiremaster13 07:09, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
• I don't want Samuel to die, Robert Knepper is as great as Zach Quinto... But I'm afraid that's just what's going to happen. AltesUTC CH
  • I do hope he dies, and I really hope Sylar will kill him, that would be badass -- (WaterRatj) 07:29, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
    • Agree :D --Skullman1392 17:02, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
      • If he does kill him, I hope he doesn't take his power. Sylar would just be stupid with terrakinesis. - Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs | 18:39, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
        • I hope he stayed on the rest of the show, I think he was a villain on a same level as Magneto. He wanted all the specials to come together and protect them from the normals, and kill those normal if they attacked anyone special.--Darkfiremaster13 18:42, 27 October 2009 (EDT)
• I still hope he doesn't die, even though he's now descending into villiany. Sinking a police station full of bloodthirsty cops is one thing, but kidnapping Charlie and marooning her in time is very very low. Not to mention murdering Mohinder... Swm 05:26, 3 November 2009 (EST)
  • I think he kidnapped Charlie to make Hiro do his will, that was to undo his wrong doing including what he did to Mohinder. --Darkfiremaster13 05:29, 6 November 2009 (EST)
• If he does die, I really don't want Sylar to be the one to do it. I'm honestly sick of the guy at this point.--PJDEP 17:12, 6 December 2009 (EST)
  • Same here, he just seems to be doing the same old thing. It's nice to have a new villain like Samuel, I hope they don't kill him off. - Jenx222 | U / T / C | <inlcudeonly>08:00, 7 January 2012 (EST) 17:17, 6 December 2009 (EST)

I heard rumors

That Samuel can also control water. Apparently it's from a UK only press release by Tim Kring. Can anyone confirm?--Gibbeynator 18:48, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

• I've not really read it yet but here's the link. --mc_hammark 19:02, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
  • I don't think Tim actually said it, I think it was just the writer getting it wrong. --mc_hammark 19:08, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
    • Well, I just wanted to see it with my own eyes. But it DOES explain how Samuel can control the ink without trying to explain what's in the ink that he can control.--Gibbeynator 21:51, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
      • I think Samuel can only control water if minerals are dissolved in it. AltesUTC CH
        • I thought Terrakinesis had VERY strict rules about how it works? This is something that seriously needs to be addressed in the show.--Gibbeynator 20:28, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
          • Rules? What rules? What needs to be addressed? I'm not seeing what the issue is that needs to be addressed on the show. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:37, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
• Only thing I can think of is that Sparrow couldn't summon earth in the city, a problem she later overcame. No reason to think that applies to Samuel. Swm 14:06, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Its going to need some new rules, otherwise he can control everything, as everything is made up of elements. For instance he may only be able to manipulate certain mixtures of different elements. Otherwise he has telekinesis far more powerful than Sylar.
    • How is terrakinesis more powerful than telekinesis? Terrakinesis moves earth, telekinesis moves anything. --Boycool42 13:51, 20 February 2010 (EST)
      • I think what the mystery poster was meaning is that everything on earth is made up of things that came from the earth, ie he could control them all. However, this doesn't seem to be the case with Samuel. --mc_hammark 13:54, 20 February 2010 (EST)

No Quotes?

• Surely he's had at least one memorable one by now? The one to Sylar in Tabula Rasa, about how family accepts and forgives its own, seems a suitable one at least. I don't remember exactly how it's worded, or I would add it in. Anybody have any suggestions? Swm 14:08, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Why don't you look at the episodes, pick out a couple of the best ones, and put them on his page? If there are too many, some will probably be erased to make room for new ones, and to trim the page, but we have to start somewhere :D --Skullman1392 22:44, 22 October 2009 (EDT)

Victims

He has killed a few times already, do we have a victim page for him? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:29, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

• I agree--Yoshi n1 17:43, 4 November 2009 (EST)
  • So, Anybody intrested to make a victims list for Samuel?--Yoshi n1 12:02, 9 November 2009 (EST)
    • Done. Do you like it? AltesUTC CH

Suresh "Extra Bits" Coyote Sands footage on NBC site

I think it's pretty obvious that the Extra Bits footage with Chandra Suresh on the NBC site is about the birth of Samuel Sullivan on March 5, 1961, complete with seismic activity. Also, we should really add these clips in the listing of webisodes. This site has seemingly ignored these new webisodes. It also adds context to the fact that we now know that the footage that Mohinder found of his father at Coyote Sands ties into finding out about Samuel and probably his death. NileQT87 22:16, 4 November 2009 (EST)

• Do you have a link to this? This is the first I have heard of it. Plus, holy crap, March 5th is my birthday! How sweet would it be to be born the same day as Samuel!--Ratclaws 22:24, 4 November 2009 (EST)
  • There are 5 new Chandra webisodes up on the NBC site here: [1] NileQT87 22:29, 4 November 2009 (EST)
    • Interesting. I wouldn't call them webisodes, but they are definitely noteworthy. Sadly, they do not confirm that Samuel was born on March 5th. That is just the day he made one of the clips. There is no indication they are all on the same day.--Ratclaws 22:44, 4 November 2009 (EST)
      • It's definitely the same day from day to evening/night. The woman is giving birth through at least 2 of the webisodes and all but entry 1 show the seismic events as Samuel is born. The baby screams at the end of entry 21. It's one day. NileQT87 22:49, 4 November 2009 (EST)
        • Good point. I think an admin needs to decide if these are worth noting somewhere, or if they need a page of their own.--Ratclaws 23:02, 4 November 2009 (EST)
• Since they are called "extra bits", I'd guess that they are cut scenes from 1961 that didn't fit on the Season 3 DVD... so I'm not sure of their canonicity, but they should probably be noted under the Heroes Evolutions section of the Coyote Sands article. Ryan mentioned the videos at Talk:Coyote Sands films.
  
  On a side note, I agree that Samuel being born or present in Coyote Sands might be possible, and could be the reason why Mohinder is dead now... but it's just a theory for now. :)--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:26, 4 November 2009 (EST)
  • I don't think they are deleated scenes from 1961. They most likely had not come up with the Samuel charactor yet, and that is clearly what these are about.--Ratclaws 23:30, 4 November 2009 (EST)
    • An internal document at NBC listed them as deleted scenes from 1961 with a question mark. There was another note on the document, but I don't have it in front of me to quote it. They look like they were filmed at the same time as 1961 (I don't think they re-hired Ravi Kapoor just for these "Extra Bits") but they are not deleted scenes that were ever meant for the DVD. I believe they were always meant to be put online to be exactly what they are--videos that were filmed in 1961, were lost, and are now resurfacing. As for where they should go, I think we should make an article about all the Coyote Sands films, including when Chandra and Mr. Lieberman filmed Angela and later filmed Alice. These five videos can also be included in that information under the Heroes Evolutions heading. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:04, 5 November 2009 (EST)
      • That sounds like a better idea, then just add a see also link at the bottom of the Coyote Sands article.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:35, 5 November 2009 (EST)
        • Unrelated, but it's possible they did re-hire Ravi Kapoor. Check the official description for Brother's Keeper. That'll be all. -- Tristan0709 talk 00:38, 5 November 2009 (EST)
          • I'm not physics genius, but among the formulas Chandra was scribbling, I recognized a power formula, and a momentum formula used in mechanical collision of objects. There was also a reconstitution index. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:48, 5 November 2009 (EST)
            • As a related note, when did geneticists become physicists?--Referos 17:05, 7 November 2009 (EST)
              • I believe "reductionism" causes them to know some physics. --mc_hammark 17:08, 7 November 2009 (EST)

I think we've learned how the world breaks in half in volume 3

Samuel would have been surrounded by people with abilities in the exposed future. He would have become more powerful and he could crack the world in half.Gamerelite1 21:14, 16 November 2009 (EST)

• You may have a point. (Evil Maldini)--- November 17th 2009, 03:13 (GMT)
  • I think it's very likely, and would love to see this addressed in a future episode. Remember, Hiro did see the world explode so he might connect it later on.--OutbackZack 22:22, 16 November 2009 (EST)
  • Sounds very very likely to me. I shudder to think of how powerful Samuel would be in a world where almost everyone he meets enhances his own power. Swm 10:31, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • How do you know there wasn't someone more powerful than Samuel in the future? AltesUTC CH
      • There is no point in speculating about potential future characters when we see an already demonstrated ability. That's like if we see a flash forward of someone getting their forhead slashed, "How do we know someone else with telekinesis isn't in the future?" You could go on and on like that. As far as Samuel destroying Earth, someone brought up the idea that in the exposed future, almost everyone would be a special and thus his ability would get out of control. I like that idea, it'd different than my 'Ando confronts Samuel and accidentally supercharges his ability.' But maybe that's because I wish Ando got some more screen time! -Barbedknives (talk)10:55, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Different from Terrakinesis?

While the effects of his power are all, indeed, Terrakinetic, it is revealed that his power increases exponentially with proximity to other evolved humans. This is shown to be a facet of the ability itself. Shouldn't his power be listed as separate from the existing Terrakinesis? Not that any particularly catchy names come to mind... "Terrakinesis by Proximity to Evolved Humans". Heh. --EkimCF 15:28, 17 November 2009 (EST)

• Not that I'm just talking to myself, but had another thought. It could be that his power is channeling the force between evolved humans. You know, that force that Chandra describes as like magnetism... or gravity. But then that doesn't explain his control over ink. --EkimCF 15:35, 17 November 2009 (EST)
  • The ink he manipulated was mineral-based, that's why he was able to control it with terrakinesis.--PJDEP 15:44, 17 November 2009 (EST)
• "Enhanced Terrakinesis" sounds okay, but we probably need more information in order to change. It sounds like he's going to end up insanely powerful however, if he could create earthquakes in utero, imagine what he'll be able to do as an adult.....--PJDEP 17:19, 6 December 2009 (EST)

Does he retain his added power?

Does he need to remain in the presence of evolved humans to magnify his power or does he retain whatever power he gained after he moves away from them? It would be somewhat useless if he needs to stay near them, if the carnies grew worried of his increasing power they could just walk away from him.....--PJDEP 15:48, 17 November 2009 (EST)

• Chandra said that the force only increases when evolved humans are close to each other, I don't think that Samuel would retain his power boost if others left. And the carnies don't know about this, they don't know that being away from Samuel makes him weaker. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:05, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Multiplied power

I was confused about this a bit. Was Chandra saying this only applied to Samuel (or the baby at Coyote Sands)? It seemed like he was making a more general statement about evolved humans causing some sort of anomaly when in close contact with each other, but that pretty much contradicts 3 seasons worth of observations. Did I miss something where he said this phenomenon was specific to Samuel (I know the episode pretty much implied it from then on out, but I am referring to Chandra's specific words on the film). --Stevehim 08:57, 20 November 2009 (EST)

• The force emanates from and between all evolved humans, but Samuel's power is the only one that becomes stronger with more of that force around him. --EkimCF 10:44, 20 November 2009 (EST)
• What observations does this contradict? We've never observed this many evolved humans getting together in one place before. I'm not sure why (or if) the multiplication force affects other evolved humans...but it certainly seems to be affecting Samuel. I think deep down, he knows it, which is why he's so heavily recruiting people to the carnival. The film is just the confirmation of those theories he has. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:14, 20 November 2009 (EST)
  • We've never seen as many as are the Carnival (possibly...Coyote Snads may have had as many), but, iirc, Chandra claimed that it occurs anytime 2 or several (I can't recall which) are together, and we've seen that hundreds of times over the years, even for VERY extended periods of time. As such, it is either retconning or direct evidence that this "force" does not affect all evolved humans. My guess would be that it only affects Samuel, likely because he was born in an environment with so many in such close proximity. Even that, however, could have problems, as we have others born (and living) in proximity of at least 2 EHs (eg - Peter, Micah, etc) --Stevehim 06:44, 23 November 2009 (EST)
• I think this may help explain the 3 seasons as opposed to contradicting anything. Chandra described the force as being like gravity or magnetism, this could explain how come the paths of evolved humans keep crossing so much, I think it said in season 1 that they were all connected somehow or something like that, perhaps this force is what connects them? Samual not only would emit the force himself but when the force surrounding him increases so does his power. Why it does for him and not others isn't explained but these abilities are mutations and maybe Samual was born with another mutation which allows him to tap into the force much like how Knox became stronger with fear around him. The Light6 07:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)
• I think it's been made pretty clear that the way in which Samuel's power increases is an attribute of his ability, rather than a secondary effect acting upon his ability. It's like how Knox's super strength was stronger with more fear to 'breathe in', Samuel's terrakinesis is stronger with more of 'the force' around him. --EkimCF 14:06, 23 November 2009 (EST)
  • • Finally caught up to the current episode, and it does seem that Chandra said "any two," which begs the question why many of our current heroes' powers aren't amplified (or are they)? On a side note, good point Light6. I think that may very well be the case. --Stevehim 20:07, 2 December 2009 (EST)

foreshadow about Samuel's amplified power

Sparrow said she had to be on the ground to use her power, then as she was falling from the plane(which had many evolved humans on it) she used it in the air. Meesa yoda 16:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)

• Or the Adrenaline rush caused by falling from a plane kicked in. -Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs 14:46, 23 November 2009 (EST)
  • Sparrow also said that she can't call forth the earth under the road that's why she was caught (she was alone that time), but when they helped Claude she control the earth and make a crack from the ground (there was Abigail, Claude and West with her). --Darkfiremaster13 05:22, 27 November 2009 (EST)

Samuel Manifested This Power...

...before he was born, right? I mean, seismic tremors were coming out of his mother hours before his birth. Technically this would mean that he is the youngest person to ever demonstrate an ability, wouldn't it? Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs 14:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)

• • I guess so, I believe he's the only person to have manifested in the womb. --Leckie -- Talk 15:17, 23 November 2009 (EST)
    • Should we note this? Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs 18:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)
      • Yes, but we should also note that he didn't know that. In Ink, he told Lydia a bit about his childhood, he said he lived a life of combed hair and prim shoes, and then he discovered he could control the earth. As far as Samuel is concerned, he think he manifested as a child. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:35, 23 November 2009 (EST)
        • True. Vampirate68 | Talk | Contribs 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)
          • Ok I know I'm a pain in the ass, but if Peter gets ruined by Draph, no reason Samuel shouldn't. Draph used empathic absorption or whatever that was to take his brother's ability (which implies both fetus had their abilities manifested). Ah ah... In my opinion, the "baby charged with electromagnetism" and "terrakinesis" are two distinct things. I think the terrakinesis manifested when he was young, but that his body was just "made" this way, absorbing the magnitude of other specials. I think it's kinda like Sylar, he had intuitive aptitude, his actual ability that manifested while fixing watches, and a DNA that allowed him to take powers from others.--Kleith 19:04, 23 November 2009 (EST)
            • I believe this Samuel thing was planned out long before Draph's creator even made him. Nothing related to Draph affected him. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:12, 23 November 2009 (EST)
              • And Peter was meant to be the only one with ability replication, and you know, Peter got that power before they even thought of Samuel so I think it was kinda planned out long before too. So we have two ability replications and two fetus using abilities. Thanks Draph. ;D --Kleith 19:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)
                • All this sstuff about Draph is really getting on my nerves. How many other fan creations could appear in the istory in future, I'm not even happy with the istory characters sometimes because some are just too far out there or pretty much copy a main character from the shows ability for filler. I seriously think fan created istory characters should nto be included in the main article of a power, such as Peter's power replication. Rather I suggest that it is placed in trivia for that ability which links to the character. That way its still there and stops the pages getting screwed up and doesn't confuse those who simply want to know about characters or abilitities on show. I know if I hadn't watched Heroes before and I saw the ability replication page and clicked on Draphs link I would never consider watching it >:( --Fr0z3nB0nes 18:51, 24 November 2009 (EST)
                  • I'm sorry you feel that way about fan-created iStory characters. If it bothers you that much, I suggest you don't read the iStory, because the crossovers from Heroes: Survival will continue. In fact, that was one of the main reasons HSG was created in the first place. But nothing is screwed up, as far as I can tell. We use the information from the canon and near-canon sources in the body of the page, and we supplement with information from HSG. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:26, 24 November 2009 (EST)
        • While it is pretty obvious that the "baby" at Coyote Sands at the time of the tremors was Samuel, was that ever stated or confirmed? If not, we can't really record it until it is (haven't seen Thanksgiving yet). --Stevehim 22:24, 23 November 2009 (EST)
          • The container with the film in it has Samuel's name on it. I say that's pretty much confirming it. --OutbackZack 19:58, 24 November 2009 (EST)

What type of Carnie?

What does he do at the carnival. Edgar is the knife thrower. Lydia is Edgar's target girl. Has it been clarified what Samuel does? Is it a tattooist, since he has the ink, and a small stand?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 19:04, 25 November 2009 (EST)

• He's essentially the ringmaster, or the emcee.--Riddler 19:16, 25 November 2009 (EST)
  • He's the barker, he's the person standing outside the carnival getting people to come in. Basically the same as emcee and ringmaster as the riddler said. - Jenx222 | U / T / C 19:43, 25 November 2009 (EST)

Murder of Joseph

Samuel killed his brother intentionally, not accidentally. He just felt a bit regretful after that. But his regret was not even much. He didn't want help from Hiro to prevent Joseph's death. Samuel hates Joseph.

• He wished to incapacitate or otherwise harm him, but it would appear he had no intention of killing him outright. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 20:13, 25 November 2009 (EST)
  • It's debatable either way. What's not debatable is that Samuel was given a chance to change the past and save Joseph's life, but didn't take it. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:28, 25 November 2009 (EST)
• He came with the intention to harm him, because he pretty much hated him. But when Joseph made him angry, he snapped and killed him. Then he regreted killing him, not harming him in general.--Boycool42 13:45, 20 February 2010 (EST)

Noah's files

So now samuel has noah's files, he'll have access to details on many evolved humans and will gather them. Only thing is, a lot of the people in Noah's files are dead. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head, but can anyone remember any evolved human to do with primatech who isn't dead? Oh, just remembered Claude and René, but other than that, nothing... --mc_hammark 12:02, 2 December 2009 (EST)

• There's always the ones they bagged and tagged. So I'm sure there's plenty out there that are running around that the company kept files on like Jeremy. Great advice to allow them to tie in new characters without it being too random. --OutbackZack 12:05, 2 December 2009 (EST)
  • The only people I remember to be in Noah's files were Level 5 guys, most if not all are dead, and West. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:43, 2 December 2009 (EST)
    • Howard Grigsby's not dead, right? Doyle's already at the Carnival, and lord knows what happened to Baron Samedi after Rene neutralised him in Haiti. Though we do know West is still active as he was part of Micah's team in Volume 4. Swm 17:40, 2 December 2009 (EST)
      • West took his file on season two right? --Darkfiremaster13 23:54, 2 December 2009 (EST)
        • Correct- Claire gave it to him. Hence that rules him out as well. Swm 11:12, 3 December 2009 (EST)
          • My theory seems to be correct with the recent introduction of Ian --OutbackZack 00:31, 8 January 2010 (EST)
            • Yeah you're right, and once Emma goes to the carnival Samuel can get anyone that the company have bagged and tagged. --Darkfiremaster13 06:18, 8 January 2010 (EST)

Mysterious Qoute

Samuel said in the season's trailer "They will accept us or they will fear us" And in fact we are at the 14th episode and he didn't say it Why is that ??? User:Sylar2105 05:44, 8 Junuary 2010 (EST)

Power enhancement

There weren't any evolved humans within his immediate vicinity when he pulled that town into the earth. Does this mean that the carnival was simply close enough to him (which seems unlikely given its distance), or that he somehow retains the power he absorbs from other evolved humans?--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:42, 18 January 2010 (EST)

• You could see the town he was from the carnival, so I think that he was close enough to benefit from the power-up. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 07:43, 19 January 2010 (EST)
  • I thought that was the haven he built for Vanessa that he destroyed? --mc_hammark 08:02, 19 January 2010 (EST)
    • He's at the ice-cream place when he starts using his ability, it's in a town. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 08:26, 19 January 2010 (EST)
      • But the whole place collapsed, he'd be dead. And I don't think it would matter where he was if he wanted to destroy it. --mc_hammark 08:28, 19 January 2010 (EST)
        • Maybe he can use his ability to "swim" through earth, for lack of better term? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 08:29, 19 January 2010 (EST)
          • Or perhaps he's naturally just quite strong even without being surrounded by specials? He wrecked his birth home with only Peter near him, after all. Swm 08:40, 19 January 2010 (EST)
          • He may have left a single pillar of earth under him when he dragged the town underground. And if he's naturally that strong without specials, it's scary to think of how powerful he is surrounded by the carnies.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:17, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Powerful

I can't believe that I'm going to say it, but i think we found a guy who is more powerful then Sylar...-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 11:40, 21 January 2010 (EST)

• I've been shouting this from the rooftops since we learned that his power could be enhanced. I mean, he dragged an entire friggin town into the earth.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:17, 21 January 2010 (EST)
  • Sylar is more powerfull on small scale, with that i mean on the field. But on big scale Samuel is far more powerfull-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 16:16, 21 January 2010 (EST)
    • Though Arthur was arguably more powerful than Sylar once he took Peter's abilities, Samuel's power level seems insane at times. Even when he's both alone and calm he sinks buildings into the earth. When angry entire towns get sunk, and he doesn't seem too shabby in 1 vs 1 combat either, as it's implied that tornado of earth he summoned would have killed Sylar if he hadn't been able to regenerate. It'll be interesting to see how he dies if Heroes stays true to form and decides to off its newest villian at the end of his Volume (or at the start of the next one, like Danko and Adam). Swm 12:28, 22 January 2010 (EST)
      • Well thats just it, he has RCG. And i think that Sylar is faster with his TK then Samuel's terra. But i think that Sylar is stronger then Samuel in 1 VS. 1, but with large thinks like towns or something, Samuel is far more powerfull.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 13:07, 22 January 2010 (EST)
        • TK wouldn't stop Samuel from using his power, so unless he slits his throat in seconds (which may not be possible) it's a somewhat even fight. Personally, I think Samuel would win but that is by no means conclusive.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:35, 22 January 2010 (EST)
          • Sylar had Samuel pinned against the wall when they fought before, right? But even if he went directly for the kill (either throat or brain) Samuel could probably make the earth swallow him up in the process. Hmm. Definetely tough to call, that one. Swm 20:17, 22 January 2010 (EST)
            • He did, so Samuel doesn't seem need his feet on the ground in order to use his ability. The way I see it, Samuel was waiting to see what Sylar would do before he sandstorm'ed him. He was trying to convince Sylar to join them, but was prepared to kill if necessary.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:42, 22 January 2010 (EST)
              • Sylar is not powerful enough to stop Samuel, but how about Matt? I think he could just go inside Samuel's head and convince him to stop or just prevent him from using his ability.--GregorZ 14:07, 26 January 2010 (EST)
                • It depends on whether he surprised him or not. If Samuel knew what was going on before Matt throughly affected him he could obliterate Matt in a second.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:32, 26 January 2010 (EST)
                  • Sylar is more powerfull, same as peter would be with his old power, no comparing possible with Samuel and Sylar -- (WaterRatj) 15:48, 26 January 2010 (EST)
                    • I think Sylar has the edge in 1 vs 1 combat. His Rapid cell regeneration makes him very hard to kill, and he has many offensive powers to Samuel's one. OTOH, Sylar's never done anything close to burying an entire town.--Cro Magnon 12:34, 27 January 2010 (EST)
                      • I'd call Sylar power-full and Samuel powerful. lol :) --mc_hammark 12:52, 27 January 2010 (EST)
                        • I agree. having multiple abilities may not be the ultimate deciding factor. I'd doubt Sylar would be much different if he only had TK and RCR.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 14:31, 27 January 2010 (EST)
• Sylar doesn't tend to use all of his abilities even when he does fight. I mean, he's never used sound manipulation except for once in a GN. Literally, never. We don't know the limits of disintegration, but given Sylar usually wants the brain in one piece to gain more powers, he normally wouldn't use it even if it did work on humans. Same applies to alchemy, because even though it has offensive properties a golden brain is useless to him, and the rest of his powers have little to no combat application, save maybe Flight. The only other "battle" power he tends to use apart from the ever-present RCR and TK is his lightning. Therefore, the multiple power issue seems to be less of a factor then we might think. If Sylar didn't have Claire's power, he'd stand very little chance. Swm 16:23, 27 January 2010 (EST)
  • I don't know, a golden brain would make quite a trophy. Seriously however, you have great point. Even Claire's power wouldn't help him if he was buried beneath the earth.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 16:32, 27 January 2010 (EST)
    • True, but it would keep him alive while he dug himself out with TK.--Cro Magnon 16:38, 27 January 2010 (EST)
      • Based on what happened to Adam, he'd die constantly while trying to "dig" his way out. And I think if Samuel buried him miles beneath the earth (which doesn't sound outlandish, given what he's already done), TK probably wouldn't help him. Of course, this is all besides the fact that if Samuel removed Sylar's head, RCR would not bring him back.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 16:43, 27 January 2010 (EST)
        • No I think Samuel will come out ontop. SYlar is powerful, but has a terrible track record in 1 on 1. He tied with Elle and Peter(the first time when Pete tossed him off the cliff). Beat Peter the second time. Loss to Peter at kirby plaza, thanks to Niki, loss in season 3, and volume 4( not really a fight, but still). And now in season 4. Not to mention knox beat him pretty bad until the kid died, who he was using to become stronger, thus making him powerless. I think Doyle is the only one, besides Peter, and Claire, who he actually fought one on one and won. Sylar, is kinda cowardly. He stalks u, finds u then, taunts u a little, before killing u. Most of his victim don't even know about their powers, or very little. Some like Ted are bound, or don't have the power like Issac or Eden, to fight back. But he rarely battles anyone straight up. Seeing as he lost to Noah who is trained without his powers. And Mohinder( with his powers). Arthur even had him suspended in the air. Sam power appears to be quicker, such as killing Mohinder, and his brother, within seconds. While Sylar basically tortures u, by pinning u to the wall, then cutting of your head. As said before he only has lighting, and flight, that are offensive. He seldomly uses his powers. And TK, which he over uses. I think Sam will win, but the writers, will prolly have Peter, or hiro defeat him. Seeing as they've defeated many villians. --Debrah 13:45, 31 January 2010 (EST)
• Sylar can do the same things as Samuel with telekinesis. Oh, and don't forget his secret weapon - disintegration.--Boycool42 18:21, 17 February 2010 (EST)
  • We've no proof disintegration works on humans. And besides, Sylar would never use that power for the same reason he'd never use alchemy in a fight- it makes the brain useless to him, or now that he's good because he doesn't want to kill people. Sylar can't do nearly the same feats as Samuel is able to do- I very much doubt telekinesis would let Sylar sink buildings, for one thing. Swm 18:43, 17 February 2010 (EST)
    • Alchemy doesn't necessarily means the brain is toast, Bob could turn only parts of people into gold remember? No reason to think the same wouldn't apply to disintegration. It would be fun to see Sylar get bored, disintegrate his hand/arm just to see it growing back. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:51, 17 February 2010 (EST)
      • He could? Oops, my mistake. Perhaps there is a useful combat application there then. I really don't think Sylar will ever use disintegration (it's like sound manipulation), so I guess we'll never figure out it's limits. Swm 19:28, 17 February 2010 (EST)
      • Sylar can do whatever he wants with telekinesis. Terrakinesis - move earth; Telekinesis - move things (meaning whatever the heck you want). Telekinesis trumphs terrakinesis.--Boycool42 16:22, 19 February 2010 (EST)

Character

Does anyone else think Samuel's descent to super villainy has been far too rapid? That he makes a much better morally gray character? Right now, he is clearly in the evil category. --User:Blood69 21:35, 2 February 2010 (AEST)

• I disagree. He's not actually evil, even at this late stage- he's just heartbroken because Vanessa destroyed his fantasy. He feels like the world has shunned and rejected him and his kind, so now he will make it fear them so they will get respect. Swm 10:11, 2 February 2010 (EST)

He has resorted to murdering members of the Carnival without the remorse he felt by killing Joseph and even speaks derisively of a lifestyle he once embraced. He no longer cares if members of his own family dies. Burying Noah is understandable, he is or was a bigoted murderer. But he has attacked Lydia, Tracy and even tried to destroy Sylar who he attempted to recruit. No, he has lost the plot. And he is right about being shunned and rejected, but he no longer even respects his own kind. He has become Adam Monroe without the RCR. --User:Blood69 07:14, 3 February 2010 (AEST)

• Quite so, though he seemed to regard Lydia's death as a neccessary evil (in a twisted sense) to get his family on side, much like blackmailing Edgar. I think you're right to a certain degree about the rest- he almost certainly deliberately sent Eli to his death against both Peter and Sylar, after all. To be fair, he's been saying all season that they needed to stop wandering and settle down somewhere, but his family does seem to have become the tools of his revenge at the moment. I do agree that he's lost it (seriously Samuel, you're going to make Claire watch her own father die?) but his rapid descent into madness isn't as off-putting as it would be with someone else (at least for me), because Samuel has always struck me as very intense and emotionally unstable, right from the start. Examples of this are plentiful- he sinks the police station into the earth after Jeremy's death, even though he didn't know Jeremy and he'd only lost a potential recruit. He thought Joseph was deliberately manipulating and lying to him to keep his powers from getting stronger, so he kills him in a fit of rage. The crux of this, obviously, is Vanessa and the resulting mass-murder of innocent people. So I would still argue that Samuel is not truly evil, but certainly misguided and emotionally shattered, and certainly a threat that must be dealt with. Swm 16:54, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Shaving

Can you see...

the difference?

I'm beginning to see a pattern here... In almost every season's second half, we see a villain shave.

• Season one: Sylar/Gabriel shaved before going to his mother.
• Season two: I don't recall seeing Adam shave... but then again, it was only a half-season.
• Season three: Danko was shaving when his alarm system went off (before he found Doyle tied up).
• Season four: Samuel was shaving when Vanessa approached him outside his trailer.

I know it's just trivia (at most), but I think it's interesting nonetheless ;-).--DrIstvaan 14:54, 3 February 2010 (EST)

• Nice catch-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 14:56, 3 February 2010 (EST)
  • yeah, and adam's could be explained by the fact his hair wouldn't grow in the first place. --mc_hammark 14:56, 3 February 2010 (EST)
    • That's never confirmed.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 14:58, 3 February 2010 (EST)
      • Regeneration stopping facial hair growth makes no sense at all. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:01, 3 February 2010 (EST)
        • I've not seen Sylar shave at all since getting it... --mc_hammark 15:04, 3 February 2010 (EST)
          • We never see him drinking coffee in front of the tv watching his favourite tv-show neither :p -- (WaterRatj) 15:06, 3 February 2
            • In season one, a piece of Peter's hair was cut off by Sylar (the emo hair). But later that season he got it back.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 15:07, 3 February 2010 (EST)010 (EST)
              • "A hair follicle is a part of the skin that grows hair by packing old cells together." Adam won't have old cells. (Straight from wikipedia. --mc_hammark 15:09, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                • Sylar sometimes has no facial hair and sometimes he does. And btw about Adam, when he got out of his "grave", he clearly had more facial hair.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 15:10, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                  • Look at these photos.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 15:16, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                    • The second one's all blurry, so it isn't the best one to compare. --mc_hammark 15:18, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                      • I will look for a better one.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 15:21, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                      • Nah, don't bother. I suppose it's just one of these things we'll never understand. :) But, err, just watched the scene with adam in his coffin... no facial hair... :( --mc_hammark 15:22, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                        • I think you're right, like the Heroes timeline lol-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 15:24, 3 February 2010 (EST)
• Back to the proper topic, where would we put this trivia? --mc_hammark 15:25, 3 February 2010 (EST)
  • Dont really know... -- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 15:28, 3 February 2010 (EST)
    • Well, I didn't mean to put it into the "trivia" section of any page, just decided to share it here. If we could find a proper place for it, that'd be neat, though.--DrIstvaan 15:29, 3 February 2010 (EST)
      • It's ok to share it :) but i think it's a trivia and mc hammark also does so mabye we can find a place for it.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 15:31, 3 February 2010 (EST)
• What's going to happen if we have a female villain? :p--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 00:16, 7 February 2010 (EST)
  • We'll probably have her shave her legs or something. :)--mc_hammark 09:00, 7 February 2010 (EST)
• I object to putting this in the trivia section on the wiki for two reasons. 1) It's not consistent. There was no shaving that I recall in the second season. And not all the "bad guys" have been seen shaving (like Linderman or Arthur). 2) It uses the opinion-based word "villain". We are very careful to not call people "heroes" on the wiki because it's such a loaded word. Likewise with the word "villain". Many might see Noah as a villain, or Nathan, or Thompson, or even Tracy. Many might see Danko as guy just doing his job, or Samuel as a guy who was wronged, or Adam as a guy who was taking extreme measures to make the world a better place. My main objection is to calling these people villains. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 09:34, 7 February 2010 (EST)
  • Would it be viable then to add to Season Two's trivia something like: "Season Two is the only season in which the the (or a) primary antagonist does not shave on-screen. In Season One, Sylar shaves before meeting with his mother. In Season Three, Danko is shaving before he discovers Doyle tied up in his apartment. In Season Four, Samuel shaves before his date with Vanessa."? --Ricard Desi (t,c) 09:51, 7 February 2010 (EST)
    • If villain is a strong word, we can always tone it down to "antagonist". Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:03, 7 February 2010 (EST)
      • The whole thing seems like a stretch. Sure, we could get around using the word "villain" with the word "antagonist" (although I still see other characters as antagonists even though they don't shave, but maybe that's just me), but it seems kind of convoluted to write forced trivia about something that is a neat observation some of the time, but not all of the time. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:31, 7 February 2010 (EST)
        • We don't need to say it's about the antagonists, but some antagonists. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:05, 7 February 2010 (EST)
          • It'd be more appropriate if shaving wasn't such an average thing to do. If every antagonist had a haircut done by a spider monkey during the eclipse, that'd be something to note.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 12:35, 7 February 2010 (EST)
            • True. However, I'm not sure we've seen anyone else shave in the entire show, which does make it at least somewhat notable. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 13:29, 7 February 2010 (EST)

Lose all power?

How was it possible that he lost all his power when everyone left? He obviously still has his powers, so why couldn't he use them? Is he that weak, that without other evolved humans, he can't do anything? What do you think, because I'm confused.--Spexile 18:23, 9 February 2010 (EST)

• it's most likely a plot hole, but in the Heroes universe, maybe he hasn't had practice with his ability with little evolved humans around for so long, he was weak without them.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 18:25, 9 February 2010 (EST)
  • It's also plausible that the weaker/stronger thing was specific for Samuel (like the strength for knox) and when peter replicated it, he just replicated the core part of the ability. That would mean Peter could easily stop any earth movement Samuel tries to make. --mc_hammark 18:32, 9 February 2010 (EST)

Trivia

Maybe we should add to the trivia that samuel is the only character to appear in every episode of a single season. daevon 01:34, 11 February 2010 (EST)

• Wasn't Hiro in every episode of season 1?--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 01:37, 11 February 2010 (EST)
• Claire has appeared in every episode in Genesis, Villains, and Redemption. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 01:45, 11 February 2010 (EST)
• Wasn't Claire in every episode this season?--Riddler 02:42, 11 February 2010 (EST)
  • Ok, maybe it should be put, "Samuel is the first character which, since two of the original main cast in Volume One, has appeared in every episode of his introductory Volume." --mc_hammark 10:45, 11 February 2010 (EST)
    • Yeah, i like the last one best. daevon 11:47, 11 February 2010 (EST)
      • Wouldn't it be better to say "Samuel is the only character that has appeared in every episode since he was introduced."? Mentioning Claire and Hiro makes it sound very complicated... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:58, 11 February 2010 (EST)
        • Good point, that sounds even better. But if he returns next volume, (or doesn't) we'll need to change it. --mc_hammark 14:23, 11 February 2010 (EST)
          • Or we could just remove it at that point since it's not really a very significant point, considering he's the third person to appear in every episode of a season. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:39, 11 February 2010 (EST)
            • Alternatively: Samuel is only the third character to appear in every every episode in a season, and the third character to appear in every episode in his debut season. Hiro and Claire appeared in every episode in Season One, and Claire and Samuel appeared in every episode in Season Four. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:27, 16 February 2010 (EST)

Teleporting of the Carnival

It's been touched on, but not discussed here, as far as I can tell (if there was a discussion about this somewhere else, please point me there and disregard the rest (for the moment)). I know some have posited that 'another carny' may have been responsible for moving the Carnival, but unless we see that, we can;t assume that. What we did see was Samuel talking to Tracy outside the Carnival, then the two of them suddenly at the carnival (after whatever that spinning light show was). As such, since we know it wasn't Tracy doing it and Samuel was the only other character there at the time, aren't we forced to list that as part of his power until we get other evidence?

Once we start assuming 'off-screen intervention' we're on a very slippery slope (eg - How do we know that any character isn't Sylar in disguise; how do we know that displays of power (eg - telekinesis) isn't really Sylar offscreen, etc). I feel pretty strongly about adding this unless someone can come up with a good explanation (based on other evidence or our general policies) as to why it shouldn't be done. --Stevehim 16:46, 16 February 2010 (EST)

• We didn't see Tracy do anything, we didn't see Samuel do anything, and we didn't see any offscreen character do anything (obviously). I don't think we should assume it's part of Samuel's power unless we have evidence that he did something. I think the only thing we can say is that the carnival was moved, and so were Tracy and Samuel. However, we don't know how this was accomplished. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:01, 16 February 2010 (EST)
  • By 'didn't see Samuel do anything,' what do you mean exactly? Like a hand gesture? The leader of the Carnival shows up (alone) to talk to Tracy, has his hands up, they are suddenly in the Carnival, and Tracy asks him 'What did you do.' Isn't that visual and verbal confirmation? --Stevehim 17:25, 16 February 2010 (EST)
    • No. Tracy only assumes that Samuel was doing something- that by no means, means he did it. How do we know Samuel is alone in that scene? For all we know he had someone hiding around the corner. And I don't see a way how Terrakinesis can account for what happened in that scene, as it looks far more like teleportation then anything to do with the earth. It shouldn't be added because it's entirely speculative to say Samuel is responsible, just as much as saying any of the other carnies are. Ultimately, we don't know how it moved. Swm 17:45, 16 February 2010 (EST)
    • Right, so we have a relatively uninformed canon source assuming Samuel did it, as opposed to no other evidence whatsoever, in any type of source. As such, we don't have anything trumping the canon source, and assuming she 'didn't know what she was talking about' is speculation anyway. We report what we see and hear.

      Whether we think terrakinesis could be responsible for such a feat is absolutely immaterial...that's not our call to make.

      As for assuming that people are off screen doing things, like I said that's a slippery slope. How do we know that every time Sylar moves his fingers it's him using his tk, as opposed to some off screen entity using their tk? How do we know that anyone we see is really a new character, as opposed to a shapeshifted Sylar? How do we know that Peter is using his telepathy to block Matt's, in the instances where we don't hear his 'head-voice?' How do we know Mohinder created those cocoons (not sure if we ever saw him doing it), or that the people we see teleporting are doing so of their own?

      The point is, we cannot assume anything is being done off screen, ever, without some kind of indication that it is. Saying it's speculative that Samuel moved it is like saying it's speculative that if we see Hiro and Ando in Japan and then suddenly in NY moments later (without actually seeing them disappear in Japan), we can;t say for sure it was Hiro doing the teleporting. We can only report what we see...we saw Samuel talking to Tracy...then there were flashing lights...then they were at the Carnival, at which point Tracy asked Samuel what he'd done, and we had no indication of him denying it, or of anyone else in the background in either location that would indicate they'd done it. --Stevehim 18:23, 16 February 2010 (EST)

      • Not saying "no" isn't the same as saying "yes". --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:27, 16 February 2010 (EST)
        • Agreed. But since when do we need confirmation of what a character tells us in canon when it's not contradicted by anything else, in any other source? --Stevehim 18:32, 16 February 2010 (EST)
          • Because neither of them are telling us anything. She asks how he "did this". He doesn't answer. Unless he gave some kind of answer, "how" is still up in the air. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:37, 16 February 2010 (EST)
            • 'How' is still up in the air...'that' he did it shouldn't be (and is in fact implied by 'how.'). --Stevehim 18:43, 16 February 2010 (EST)
              • There is far insufficient evidence to suggest that he actually did it. As one with a taste for the theatric, he would never say "Oh, it's that guy over there.", nor would he say "Yup, it was me." Without proof, saying he did it is speculative. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:46, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                • I disagree. That's like saying that when we first see him use his power to move earth we are speculating that's what he's doing by raising his hands. We see something, we're supposed to record it. Deciding what Samuel 'would or would not say' based on his 'taste for the theatric' is complete speculation. We have 2 evolved humans, something happens, and we can rule out one of them. That's the basics of what occurred...anything else is speculation. --Stevehim 18:52, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                  • In watching the episode again, Samuel makes no physical motion whatsoever when the two appear at the Carnival. I'd like to ask you to explain how someone whose power is to control the earth can somehow move two people, without any jerk or unusual motion, to a different location, when all other uses of his power are quite loud. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:57, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                  • I would also like to note that Tracy is not "relatively uninformed", she is completely uninformed. Just because she accuses Samuel of doing it does not make it so. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:58, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                    • To the first, it doesn't matter how he can do it...that's not for us to speculate. It only matters if we saw him do it (and I think he did have his hands up, iirc). Tracy is no more uninformed than any other non-expert in the show (of which there are maybe a half dozen). Are you now saying that all information provided to us has to be in the form of a statement? Because I am fairly certain things have been phrased in question-form before. --Stevehim 19:03, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                      • I am watching the episode right now, he does not move at all as the teleportation happens. I'm not saying everything has to be explicitly stated, but her accusing him of teleporting her is not sufficient evidence that he actually did do it, particularly in that he doesn't answer the question. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 19:06, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                      • My point is, unless we know he did it, we can't claim he did. And we don't know he did it. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 19:07, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                        • It depends on what we take as evidence. Personally, I think we have taken similar evidence in the past to record things, but don't have the time to go back sifting through history pages of previous seasons to document when. --Stevehim 19:20, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                        • Unless we can think of a reason how Samuel would be able to do it, we've no reason to think he did, or indeed could. As Desi rightly points out, what happened there is not consistent with any application of Terrakinesis as understood or shown anywhere else in the series. Unless we want to argue Samuel has another power that lets him return to the carnivel, which really would be speculation, assuming Samuel did it is speculation because you're speculating that he has the power to do it, which isn't backed up by anything. Swm 19:18, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                          • • Afaik, we don;t have to figure out 'whether an ability could account for something.' We report what we see. The only issue is whether there is sufficient evidence or not to credit this to Samuel...whether it fits in with the definition we currently have of his power doesn't make a difference (and, indeed, we have expanded definitions of powers many times in the past). That said, 'the ability to control geologic materials such as minerals, dirt and rocks," would be enough to incorporate moving anything on said rocks, dirt, etc, in my opinion. --Stevehim 19:24, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                              • What we saw is that they appeared at the Carnival, without any explanation as to how. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 19:37, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                              • Also, if he was moving them along the ground, there would be wind, of which there was none. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 19:38, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                                • "In (insert episode here), Tracy seems to think that Samuel is responsible for their sudden apparition at the Sullivan Bros. Carnival. Whether this is a result of Samuel's direct/indirect actions is unknown". That's the best I could come up with. Direct/indirect implies that it is either a result of his power, or him directing someone else to use their power, if that makes any sense. I'm still not sure that this should be mentioned however.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 19:57, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                                  • Looks good to me, it can go in a notes or trivia section. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:02, 16 February 2010 (EST)
                                  • Sounds good to me too. --Stevehim 20:03, 16 February 2010 (EST)

I always thought he just moved the ground under them.--Boycool42 17:56, 17 February 2010 (EST)

• I think it was Samuel, although I have no idea how. It happened at the end of Hysterical Blindness with Sylar too, and it appeared Samuel was the only one present, bar Sylar and all the police that time too.--Evil Maldini 19:41, 17 February 2010 (EST)
  • He's shown that he can move the soil. Depending on how fast he can do it, that's probably how he does the "teleport." He also did it in Close to You, btw.--Boycool42 07:39, 18 February 2010 (EST)
    • Again, if he was moving people or things along the soil there would be substantial noise and wind. I don't understand how, with an entire Carnival full of specials (one of whom can cloak things, for example), people are assuming it's Samuel doing it. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 09:36, 18 February 2010 (EST)
      • I can only speak for myself, but my argument has always been that he's the only one there that we see, and I think assuming 'outside forces' is a mistake, and a somewhat dangerous one, for the reasons I pointed out above that have yet to really be addressed (ie - we could do the same in other places). I don't buy the noise and wind argument, as you're assuming laws of physics when the show clearly breaks pretty much all of them (and now we have even more evidence from others posting about other episodes). That said, I don't see why we shouldn't list what PJDEP posted above in the Notes section, as it is factual, non-committal, and not debatable (and what the Notes section is for). I'll wait a bit for any objections, but if there are none I'll post it in the Notes section. --Stevehim 00:37, 21 February 2010 (EST)
        • Well, look at it this way; in season 1 when Claire was being interviewed by Audrey, we didn't see the haitan until after the interview. Did any of us actually suspect it was Noah doing that to Matt's ability? I doubt it. --mc_hammark 06:23, 21 February 2010 (EST)
          • I'm still not taking a side here, but there's a difference between those situations. For one, we know that Samuel has a power and that it's conciviable that he could have "teleported" people to the carnival. Also, the season is over and the carnival is in shambles, so we probably won't get a definitive answer.--PJDEP - Talk - Polls and Opinions 21:37, 21 February 2010 (EST)
      • The fact that we are actually spending time on this site arguing about a fictional superpower on a fictional tv show is pretty pathetic.--Boycool42 16:36, 19 February 2010 (EST)
        • I don't know about others but I find that rather offensive. There's nothing wrong with enjoying a decent discussion with a group of intelligent people who give up their own time to help correctly document things so that it makes information easier for others to access correctly. --mc_hammark 16:50, 19 February 2010 (EST)
        • I agree with Mc, the point of this site is to accurately chronicle Heroes. If there is something the entire community doesn't agree with, we need to have a discussion. If you find that pathetic, it's confusing as to why you joined the community in the first place.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 17:15, 19 February 2010 (EST)
          • If my comment offends you, then I apologize.--Boycool42 08:31, 20 February 2010 (EST)
            • Don't worry about it. I'm sure you didn't intend it to be offensive.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 14:24, 20 February 2010 (EST)