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Episode talk:Once Upon a Time in Texas

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Evil Butterfly Man

This was a good episode, but why did so many things get screwed up? --Boom D  14  21:02, 2 November 2009 (EST)

  • Nothing got screwed up.
    • Not exactly. The timeline as we perceive it has been screwed up beyond all recognition.--Gibbeynator 23:01, 2 November 2009 (EST)
      • But it's not screwed up on the show. It's a classic paradoxism: he goes back in time to save Charlie, he therefore eliminates the reason he goes back to save Charlie, so he has no reason to go back in time and save Charlie. It's established that Hiro is unaffected by his own altered timeline (he doesn't remember Ando and Kimiko being engaged), so okay, he remembers. But the show itself has emphasized that small changes have wide-reaching effects (i.e., the butterfly effect). None of them are seen here, and Hiro isn't exactly being careful about how he alters history. Even the info he gives Sylar (avoid crowds of evolveds, basically :) ), is enough to give Sylar a foreknowledge of his death and take steps to avoid being outmatched and badly defeated at Kirby Square. Unfortunately, the Paradox section here seems to be out-of-date and/or not taking into account the recent developments. 09:12, 3 November 2009 (EST)

Room 108

Did anyone else notice how the name of the room, i forget her name, was staying in was the same number as the episode in season 1 took place: Chapter Eight- Seven Minutes To Midnight, episode number 108. daevon 21:09, 2 November 2009 (EST)

The Ending

Am I the only person who did not see that coming? And am I the only person who is also happy at the ending?--Icefire227 21:17, 2 November 2009 (EST)

  • Surely I'm not the only one who thought of Doctor Who (especially Ten), when Samuel said "I'm sorry. I'm so sorry"? That's a signature thing for a time traveler to say, apparently --Spikelike 14:31, 3 November 2009 (EST)
  • I didn't but when they were hovering over the body, I thought that it was Nathan for a second! ~~IHHTalk 21:21, 2 November 2009 (EST)
  • I thought that it was going to be Joseph (Samuel's brother) for a second, not Mohinder. I just want to know if this counts as the main character that is supposed to be killed off that Greg Grunberg tweeted about.--Icefire227 21:24, 2 November 2009 (EST)
    • Yeah, I was expecting Samuel to be involved with his brother's death.--Anthony Gooch 21:27, 2 November 2009 (EST)
      • Everyone was expecting it to be Joseph. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:52, 3 November 2009 (EST)
        • Good news is, Mohinder won't be dead for long (or shouldn't be) cause Samuel wants to go back and stop himself from killing him. --mc_hammark 13:48, 3 November 2009 (EST)
          • I would definitely think Mohinder fits the male main character that we haven't seen for a while that dies. I think we were all expecting the body to be Joseph though.--Jas3point14 20:47, 3 November 2009 (EST)
            • What's funny is I knew that this episode would explain how Samuel killed Mohinder (the plot point was described in some internal NBC documents), and I still was surprised by this ending! I was totally expecting to see Joseph. I'm either totally dense, or it was a well-written ending. (Probably a little of both!) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:44, 3 November 2009 (EST)

Mohinder is NOT Joseph

Guys, where do you get it from? Samuel didn't say I'm sorry Joseph. He said "Sorry. I'm so sorry". --Janrodrigo 21:42, 2 November 2009 (EST)

  • We thought that before we saw his face. Ya know we never did get an explanation for Joseph's death so everyone thought we were about to.--WarGrowlmon18 22:46, 2 November 2009 (EST)
    • That was definitely Mohinder on the floor at the end of the episode. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:44, 3 November 2009 (EST)

Well it's nice to see Suresh again

Even if it looks like he's a corpse now. At least we got a hopefully definitive answer as to where he's been...--Gibbeynator 22:12, 2 November 2009 (EST)

Masi Oka

Awsome acting from him. Totally deserves that award he just got.--Ratclaws 23:23, 2 November 2009 (EST)

Kid and black hat Sylar

Anyone else find that funny: kid says bad guy's wear black hats and seconds later Sylar, the bad guy, shows up wearing a black hat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--WarGrowlmon18 23:59, 2 November 2009 (EST)

  • Out of the mouth of babes comes the truth. Yeah. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
  • Yes, it was so funny I tweeted it! But not so funny that it requires 20 exclamation marks! --Isaac Mendez 11:46, 5 November 2009 (EST)


It was hilarious when Hiro wheeled Sylar out of the diner all the way into a bus, with Sylar's finger still in the slicing position. I also laughed when Hiro said Sylar was a doctor, and Sylar gave a wide-eyed surprised look. Also a perfect performance from Zach Quinto (Sylar), who acted just exactly like the season 1 Sylar. --JLYK

  • I totally agree --Yoshi n1 13:51, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • Heroes does have great actors. With all that he's been through, I'm kind of hoping to see a little more from Hiro (like the badass future Hiro from Season 1). He's a likable character as who he is right now, but I kinda miss the other future Hiro.--Jas3point14 20:52, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • I kept thinking about what happened with Sylar when time started up again. Did he slice the inside of the bus? Did the people on the bus see him? :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:48, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • The side of the bus looks pretty intact before Sylar slams Hiro up against it. He must have unlocked it from the inside somehow. Swm 15:38, 5 November 2009 (EST)
      • No, I mean the floor of the bus, which is the roof of the small compartment he was in. When Hiro unfroze time, Sylar was on his back, pointing up, ready to slice through whatever was in his way. That's what happened when Sylar and Hiro had their "Old West duel"-style faceoff...and when Hiro's head wasn't there, Sylar sliced through a poster. So when Charlie's head wasn't there, wouldn't Sylar have sliced through the bus's floor? :) Just a bit of silly speculation... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:17, 5 November 2009 (EST)

Sylar saving Charlie

Okay so how was he able to use telekinesis to heal Charlie's brain anuyerism???--WarGrowlmon18 01:34, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • Pulled it out of her eye, maybe? Green.gif AltesUTC CH
    • I got the impression he crushed the clot somehow using TK, then let the fluid out of her eye. Remember Sylar had even at that point studied a bunch of textbooks about brains, so the actual process is probably more complicated. Swm 05:20, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • Most likely he ruptured it in the least damaging way and made it so it was drained to tear ducts. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:52, 3 November 2009 (EST)
  • Well he flat out stated that his ability lets him see how things work and how to fix them when they're broken. He would have been easily able to fix it.


Given that this episode happens in October 8, 2006 an that they say it's 3 years ago from "now", can we deduce that "now" is around October 2009? The timeline might not be inconsistent. Many people (including me) ask themselves how we got to 2009 from 2007, one possible answer is that Fugitives may have lasted much more then we tought. --Janrodrigo 01:35, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • I completely agree. And we'll have to edit some dates. Danko's death, the deaths of Sylar's victims during Fugitives - I think it isn't speculative to say James Martin and Tom Miller were killed in 2009, since it was a couple of months before Redemption. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
    • No, you can't change their death dates, we know that in season 3 it lasted over a period of 2(ish) years, but at what time during this period those characters died is something we don't know. --mc_hammark 12:17, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • Right, ultimately we have sources that are contradicting each other. In that case, we don't put either date, because it would mean we are favoring one source over another. For death dates, we'll have to simply put "Unknown", which will mark the people as dead, but the date of their deaths are simply not known. See here for a further discussion. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:51, 3 November 2009 (EST)

Pistol Petey

Ugh. The end credits identify the boy as "Pistol Petey." There's something you want on your resume... 01:41, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • Haha, love it --Lolwut 12:12, 6 November 2009 (EST)



Just the first trial. By the way, another cast member Candace Smith is credited as Miss Roberts but didn't see her in the episode. Does anyone know who she is? --Janrodrigo 02:14, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • There's a line in Seven Minutes to Midnight about Ms. Roberts assigning the banner-making to Claire. She is Claire's teacher. NileQT87 02:36, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • Thank you Nile. I added her to the list above. By the way, we've to decide a name for the Cheerleader too. --Janrodrigo 02:53, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • There were six cheerleaders. The one above was #1, #4 was in Dollhouse a few weeks ago. #2 and #3, nothing TV-wise as far as I can tell. #5 in As the Bell Rings as Tiffany. #6, there are a couple of people named Alison Page, but one was in a couple of eps of Days of Our Lives last year, and one was on an inventor TV show. 08:47, 3 November 2009 (EST)

Cheerleader #4 is Deanna Lee Douglas and now has the correct picture. Yes she played Dollhouse and I have also updated the Stub page with the correct picture. The other picture seems to be from google pictures of a Deanna Douglas that is not the actress that played here and is stored somehow on wiki heros as Deanna Douglas. One of the two pictures (the first one) is now correct however I can't seem to get the number IV under her picture. --d6douglas 14:25, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Hiro thinks that Sylar is dead?

Looking at the way he told Sylar about his "death" in the future, this means that Hiro thinks that Sylar is dead until now? --JLYK

  • Hiro attended James Martin's cremation, who was killed while in Sylar's form. Everyone except for Angela, Noah and Matt think he is dead. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
    • But did Hiro know that Sylar survived Kirby Plaza? I don't think they've ever seen each other since the end of season 1. --Gibbeynator 08:21, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • Well... Hiro also saw Usutu's painting of four villains, so he could figure out Sylar was alive. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
        • Well, it's just that Hiro says that everyone gathered to stop Sylar, and he died. It seems pretty clear he's talking about Kirby Plaza.--Gibbeynator 08:33, 3 November 2009 (EST)
          • Very likely... Hmm, who was there to stop Sylar from getting to the President? Peter, Nathan, Claire, Noah... Hiro and Ando were releasing captured evolved humans... Matt and Angela only appeared at the end... Yes, it's unlikely Hiro was referring to the Stanton Hotel, it was rather Kirby Plaza. A plot hole? Or was Hiro speaking about the Stanton Hotel and just mentioned it wrong? Green.gif AltesUTC CH
            • Wouldn't be the first plot hole in the series.--Gibbeynator 09:16, 3 November 2009 (EST)
              • Volume 3, in The Eclipse part 2. Hiro transported Sylar and Elle to the beach where sylar killed elle. Hiro didn't have his full memory then, but when Ishi fixed his memory, he would have still remembered that. --mc_hammark 12:21, 3 November 2009 (EST)
                • Completely forgot about that. Thanks, Mc_Hammark. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
                  • No, he's talking about the Stanton Hotel and assuming that people other than him gathered to stop and kill Sylar. He's just not aware of the exact facts because he wasn't there, but he got the Angela-ized version of the story when he attended James Martin's/Sylar's funeral. That was Sylar's death as far as Hiro is aware. He also could have been bullsh*tting Sylar, telling him something that would get at Gabriel's humanity (after all, it was Hiro who witnessed Gabriel killing Virginia and being "so sad"). Sylar's issue has always being desperate for love and him dying alone and unloved would certainly trigger that insecurity. It would certainly keep Sylar on the path of being desperate for Claire's ability. No butterflies crushed, but it is something that would add to Sylar's insecurities. NileQT87 13:26, 3 November 2009 (EST)
                    • Yeah Hiro met Sylar in Eclipse part 2 and knew he survived Kirby Plaza, Hiro is refering to his funeral where no-one shed a tear.-- By Danko CH 16:30, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • Hiro knew that Sylar survived Kirby Plaza anyway, wasn't Sylar using the telekinesis to push him away before he teleported? -- Tristan0709 talk 18:03, 3 November 2009 (EST)
        • Yeah he did, but Hiro probably thought chances were that he wouldn't survive. Which is backed up by the fact Hiro thought Isaac's comic from the future depicted him killing sylar. --mc_hammark 18:06, 3 November 2009 (EST)
          • I don't think it should matter that much. As far as Hiro knows, the other Heroes gang up against Sylar to kill him. Whether or not Sylar died at Kirby Plaza, Hiro did attend Sylar(James Martin's) funeral where no-one shed a tear (again surrounded by other Heroes who had to work together to stop Sylar). And since Hiro is telling Sylar an abbreviated version of the future, I think he covered what he wanted to say without crushing unnecessary butterflies like Nile said.--Jas3point14 21:01, 3 November 2009 (EST)


Did Samuel kill Mohinder? If he did, then why? Mohinder had a power, and he'd love to come to a carnival full of potential test subjects... did he abandon "his faaaatha's reseeearch" or did it somehow stand in Samuel's way? Green.gif AltesUTC CH

  • Samuel seems to hate humans. Let's not forget that Suresh was a normal human until he made the first version of the formula. Samuel could see giving humans powers as a threat. At least, that's what I think.--Gibbeynator 08:45, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • I don't think he hates normal people. He just hates the people that hate/don't understand his kind.

Am i the first..

..if not the only one to spot the chrono trigger reference..the super nes rpg which dealt with time travel..and another thing, that marle and charlie are both redheads (as was "mj" heh)..this makes masi's character an uber geek..awesome line for hiro! ;) User:Denzel01

  • I saw it too, and isn't Marle blonde?--Gibbeynator 07:26, 3 November 2009 (EST)
  • Yes i did have a thought she was has been 10 years since i was holding by the game..mebbe make ur mind up here: --User:Denzel0114:36, 3 November 2009
    • Yeah, she looks like a blonde in those pictures. That is a newer picture though, I think earlier art had her with orange hair.--Gibbeynator 08:17, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • Actually, Hiro made a reference to Charlie being his Marle a long while ago in his blog. --Whizzles 18:24, 3 November 2009 (EST)
        • Hiro seems like the biggest geek (comic books and video games) in Heroes, and Masi Oka seems like the geekiest (rpg's and general fanboy vibe) cast member in my humble opinion.--Jas3point14 21:16, 3 November 2009 (EST)
          • Oh come on, why isn't anyone mentioning the "Oh boy" at the begining of the episode??? Easy88 22:23, 3 November 2009 (EST)
            • Quantum Leap! --Action Figure 04:19, 4 November 2009 (EST)
              • Hey dude, you're right! Finally there's a reference to QL! Green.gif AltesUTC CH

Lauren - Evolved Agent?

So how does she fit into the timeline? Standard policy is Noah's often-cited "One of us, one of them" matching of a normal with an evolved. And wasn't Noah partnered with the Haitian in this timeframe originally? They were together in "Hiros" when they captured Nathan and subsequently watched him escape. Granted, the Haitian doesn't show up again until "Homecoming", where he's still part of the Sylar investigation but not working directly with Noah. However, this episode overlaps the events of "Seven Minutes to Midnight" which takes place just before "Homecoming", where he's seen as part of the Sylar capture operation. But even if they broke up the Noah/Haitian partnership briefly, that would still mean that Lauren would have to be evolved, since she worked at least one other bag-n-tag with Noah. (Or did Hiro altering the timeline and setting up Ando and Kimiko somehow alter history so that policy didn't exist any more? :) 09:03, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • Wasn't Noah partnered up with Eden until the Sylar capture operation?--Gibbeynator 09:15, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • I more saw Lauren as a former partner of Noah's, possibly before he was matched up with Claude? Given the Haitian and Eden it's unlikely she was his current partner. Swm 09:34, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • Well, she's there with Noah for some reason, and they talk about having been meeting for months. Not just for breakfast, but they're later seen together at Primatech. And Noah and the Haitian seemed to be working together when dealing with Matt and Nathan, although I'll admit he seemed to be partnering with Eden as well in roughly the same time frame. But my question is more that, whether she's a former partner or current partner, because of Company policy she has to be evolved beacuse Noah was always partnered with "one of them". 09:51, 3 November 2009 (EST)
        • I don't think she was his partner. She was likly just another agent who worked at Primetech he befriended.--Ratclaws 10:05, 3 November 2009 (EST)
          • Incorrect, Ratclaws. They wouldn't be in the same area together, renting hotels and shit if they weren't on a job together.--VanguardLogo.pnganguard 10:45, 3 November 2009 (EST)
            • Plus she sure talks like the bag-n-tag against the fire nose guy was a joint mission. Plus, if she wasn't Noah's partner, and he was tracking Sylar... where was his partner? 11:38, 3 November 2009 (EST)
              • Partners don't need to be together all the time. Plus, there are exceptions to the One of Us One of Them. When Sylar was caught after Homecoming, he was takin in by the Haitian and Eden, two "One of Them". Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:52, 3 November 2009 (EST)
                • Except that Noah lives in that city, and she probably did too. She rented the hotel room for privacy, not a job. More than one team of agents was based out of the paper factory. Who else would he talk too about lying to his family, but another normal agent?--Ratclaws 12:42, 3 November 2009 (EST)
  • I just want to say I thought the whole Lauren plotline was ridiculous and pointless. The writers wanted something else to do with extra time in the episode and decided to make up some crazy plot for Noah. I really didn't like it. --Skullman1392 12:13, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • Of course, both Eden and the Haitian were working on the Sylar case. So Noah could have been partnered up with the Haitian, Eden with Lauren, like "two of us, two of them" kind of thing. --mc_hammark 12:26, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • Yeah, this plot didn't make sense unless she is in more episodes or something.--Ratclaws 12:42, 3 November 2009 (EST)
  • There is no evidence that Lauren is an evolved human. Nor is there any evidence (of which I'm aware) that Lauren was ever Noah's partner (well, his Company partner at least). -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:40, 3 November 2009 (EST)

Not fond of this episode

They're bringing back the same thing that made this show complicated and stupid before; Hiro's Time Travelling. Can't he just die already?--VanguardLogo.pnganguard 11:14, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • I've wished this in the past as well, mostly through the last couple volumes. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:52, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • I really enjoyed this episode. It was like Company Man for Hiro. It really explained a lot about him, and really layered his character nicely. Masi Oka did a terrific job acting--especially in the end. There were great surprises and twists, and it kept me riveted the entire time. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:55, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • I wasn't really fond and sure of why they needed this Noah arc in this. It do anything for me. But everything with Hiro...just great.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 22:07, 3 November 2009 (EST)
        • I didn't like Noah's story, I find it kind of boring and meaningless. Because in the end, the girl made the haitian wipe her memory, and it was as if nothing ever happened. --JLYK
          • It was her last act of love. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:37, 3 November 2009 (EST)
            • I think they made Noah's story to tell us he always loved his family no matter what and can't live without them... probably hinting that he will reconcile with Sandra after all? Green.gif AltesUTC CH
  • This was one of my favourite episodes, but then I am slightly biased because I've always loved the Hiro/Charlie storyline. One might say the Noah arc with Lauren was filler because it doesn't actually affect the main plot (as far as we can tell), but I think that's being harsh. It's meant to reaffirm that his family will always come first to him, even at the cost of his own happiness- it was true back and then it's true again now. Swm 05:13, 4 November 2009 (EST)
I didn't mind the Noah/Lauren thing. She's a cool character, and while I love Sandra's character... it would be nice for him to persue Lauren in present day.--VanguardLogo.pnganguard 18:43, 4 November 2009 (EST)


Shouldn't they be trimmed? There are way too many. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:07, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • Why is six "way too many"? Seems to depend on quality of writing: some episodes will have more, some will have less. Is there a limit? Or needs to be? 16:40, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • It was at the time IE posted that. There were too many, but we cut some. We just don't want to have a whole list of them that take up half the page. --mc_hammark 16:42, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • Yeah, when I posted the above, there were almost ten quotes, most of which dialogs. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:46, 3 November 2009 (EST)
        • It looks like there were two, maybe three, added and then deleted. Nine, often (short) dialogs, is pretty consistent with many previous episodes. 16:48, 3 November 2009 (EST)
          • Not really, most of the times, they're trimmed down to five entries. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:52, 3 November 2009 (EST)
            • zomg i <3 the dialogue! can we just post the script on here? someone start transcribing! =P totally kidding.--Jas3point14 21:23, 3 November 2009 (EST)
          • Go back to Season 1, they're definitely are plenty of entries per episode. Like I said, eight or nine or ten. Hard Part has eight, and three are dialogue (dialogue being more than one line, presumably). Years Gone has 10, and six are dialogue. And so on. It's like saying we list too many appearances and maybe we should trim some. I thought we list all the appearances because we list all the appearances. We list all the good quotes because we list all the good quotes. 13:28, 4 November 2009 (EST)
            • No, we should only have four or five quotes. Just because there are a few other episodes that are bloated with quotes does not mean we should fill every episode page with quotes also. Instead, we should trim the others (I'll take care of that in a minute). This has been discussed at least three times in the past (I don't remember the links, but I can find them for you if you're interested), and it has been decided that four to five quotes is sufficient. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:46, 4 November 2009 (EST)

Noah: nobody knows what sylar looks like!!!

So, what, now the company didn't give sylar Trevor and didn't tape what his face looks like and elle didn't know what he looked like. There are a lot of loose ends in this episode. --mc_hammark 12:58, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • You know, I thought the same thing... but then I thought about it. Elle and Noah knew what Gabriel Gray was capable of... and they knew what Gabriel Gray looked like... but maybe when the killings started happening, they didn't know that Sylar was in fact Gabriel Gray. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.--Riddler 14:26, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • They didn't know he went by the name of Sylar, but the whole exposing the brain thing is not something that most people do. And they knew gabriel gray done that. And they had lost track of him hadn't they. --mc_hammark 14:31, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • I think that's a mistranslation from the original scene- the original line is "because nobody knows where he is!" Far more plausible. Would somebody mind checking? Swm 15:01, 3 November 2009 (EST)
        • In the original episodes, Sylar was both a mysterious serial killer and a myth. Nobody was sure who he was or what his motives were. The paintings Isaac did of Sylar always showed a shadowy individual and never clearly identified his face. Maybe Noah sort of knew that Gabriel Gray was Sylar but he couldn't be 100 percent sure. That's why he needed Isaac to paint another painting so he could know for sure and be able to track him down. Remember when Noah and Elle encountered Gabriel, he never once called himself Sylar. That's just my theory anyway.--SlicinDicinEdgar
          • I've just checked it up, guys. Swm is right, He says "because nobody knows where he is!". All the rest of the talk is the same except it's a bit longer in the original episode. So let's think if they keep everything the same but just change one line, one specific line, what could that mean? --Janrodrigo 16:32, 3 November 2009 (EST)
            • That they are just trying to make up the time? That or it's just a mistake. --mc_hammark 16:34, 3 November 2009 (EST)
              • I was thinking almost like you Mc hammark, until watching that part from the two episodes. Too many things come together to say... or they really really sucked badly up this volume about timelines and consistencies, or very subtly subtly they are giving us hints about "something", I don't know what exactly. But it definitely smells "Back to the Future". If it's the second option, which I wish and believe is, then since a while we've been introduced to a new story telling style of Heroes, consisting of alternate timelines, both present and past, not only future. --Janrodrigo 16:52, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • Upon more consideration, I'm starting to think this was intentional. Think about it- they effectively used stock footage for that scene, right? So if it's a matter of just trimming down the original scene to make it fit, how could that be messed up? They'd have to re-record it and get the script wrong, which they might have done but the credits don't seem to indicate (Eden's not credited). It seems possible therefore that they changed it on purpose, though for what reason I have no idea. Swm 16:32, 8 November 2009 (EST)
      • That's what I was trying to say Swm. --Janrodrigo 21:27, 8 November 2009 (EST)

Noah's phone call?

Did he say Ethan or Eden's got the paintings. If it was Ethan, do you think it is the Haitian's name? --mc_hammark 14:25, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • Pretty sure it was Eden. Anyway they have a streak of just calling the Haitain The Haitian so I doubt they'd break it now.--WarGrowlmon18 14:55, 3 November 2009 (EST)

mohinder's death by samuel the empath

I think Samuel is an empath or something along those lines. If you look very closely at the last part when it cut's to mohinder's body, you can see something on fire. If you look even closer you can see it is a hand. --mc_hammark 14:48, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • If Samuel was an empath he would have been able to teleport himself through time not have Arnold and Hiro do it for him. He's a terrakinetic.--WarGrowlmon18 14:54, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • I didnt see if it was a hand on fire or not, but wtf is that on his shirt? daevon 17:43, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • I think Samuel pelted him with a bunch of pebbles. --mc_hammark 17:45, 3 November 2009 (EST)
      • There were tiny stones on his chest, probably due too terrakinesis. -- Futurepeter ( U - T - C) 18:07, 3 November 2009 (EST)
        • But wouldnt there be blood? daevon 22:01, 3 November 2009 (EST)
          • There will be. --Action Figure 04:27, 4 November 2009 (EST)
            • And milkshake. i thought it looked more like shotgun pellets to me. maybe moho got street smart and started using a bullet proof vest. then again that doesnt explain why hes dead. i like the pebble thing best. --Lolwut 12:24, 6 November 2009 (EST)


I can understand if the trivia about Sylar's hair wasn't notable enough, but it definitely was true. Just saying. -- Tristan0709 talk 18:34, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • I thought that as well but it's not. IE reminded me that he got a haircut once the Company caught him, he even said "That was for the haircut." --mc_hammark 18:36, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • This got debunked ages ago. By me, in fact. It was one of the first things people were talking about as soon as pictures of the episode were released. I brought pictorial evidence over to both ODI and IMDb to prove this complaint wrong (it kept coming up a lot). Not only is there the haircut remark (!), they showed Sylar very clearly with long hair at the end of Homecoming (shown more clearly in Six Months Ago, but it was part of the Homecoming reveal). It's also important to note that Zachary Quinto had long hair in the Six Months Ago flashback, which was filmed AFTER Seven Minutes to Midnight and Homecoming. Zach didn't get his chop job haircut until it was time to shoot Fallout. His hair was long and was seen. This was NOT an error. NileQT87 01:41, 4 November 2009 (EST)
      • And we're sure they didn't use a wig or something like that, they way they did with Milo, so Peter would still have his Season One hair when they shot Villains because? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:19, 4 November 2009 (EST)
        • Because we saw Sylar's face and hair in Homecoming/Six Months Ago (a brief shot filmed at the same time) when The Haitian and Eden reveal his identity. It definitely wasn't a wig. Clicky = [1] NileQT87 14:54, 4 November 2009 (EST)


I loved it when Hiro told young Hiro he was a moron. Funny funny. :) --Catalyst · Talk · HL 20:41, 3 November 2009 (EST)

  • Aron Coleite writes terrific episodes with really nice humor. He's effortless and smooth in what he writes. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:00, 3 November 2009 (EST)
    • It's symbolic I thought: Past Hiro was very naive (and so is Present Hiro somewhat), but Present Hiro is much less naive and commented on how stupid he was being back then.--WarGrowlmon18 01:48, 4 November 2009 (EST)

Charchter Black Holes of Forgetfullness

Ya know, so many charchters fall through black holes on this show: Simone, Charlie, Yaeko and Caitlin to mention a few. They have their few episodes, something terrible happens to them, there's sadness for a few episodes and then we never hear of them again. I'm glad they removed at least one charchter from their black hole of forgetfulness. For example, Charlie dies in season 1, Hiro's like "oh well" after learning she was dying already, moves on and all we hear about her after that is how Hiro learned English from her (he said it to Nathan when Nathan asked about his better English). Simone gets killed by Issac, he and Peter mourn her a few minutes, the Company covers it up and no more Simone being mentioned. Yaeko, Hiro falls in love with her, leaves her behind due to him having to and we never even hear him say anything about her to Ando once he gets back aside from those damn scrolls (also apparently fallen into a black hole along with the Kensei sword itself). Caitlin gets stuck in the Outbreak Future, Peter accidently leaves her behind, fails to get her back, mentions her to Adam and we never hear about her again and Peter makes no more attempts to get her. At least they brought Charlie back (so nice of Hiro to finally remember his true love AFTER THREE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!) I liked her and I'm glad they found a way to actually save her this time completly although I hate Samuel especialy for what he's done to her.--WarGrowlmon18 01:57, 4 November 2009 (EST)

  • Agreed, although the sword isn't forgotten, it was mentioned several times during the episode.Gamerelite1 05:07, 4 November 2009 (EST)
    • I agree to a certain extent. I am certainly very glad they brought back Charlie, but given Yaeko died almost four hundred years before Hiro was born, and the only other person who knew anything about her (Adam) is also dead now too. Therefore, it would be very hard for the writers to bring her back into the plot (though I do agree that the odd mention would be a good thing). The same applies to Caitlin after the virus storyline was destroyed by the strike- if they even mentioned her, they'd have to sort out that storyline then and there, because it would remind people just how much closure is needed on that one. And seemingly that's not on their agenda at the moment. Simone's not excusable though...if I were Emma, I'd be slightly scared of how amnesiac Peter seems to be concerning his old flames. Swm 05:24, 4 November 2009 (EST)
      • Peter isn't trying to be the master of time and space like Hiro. Caitlin is pretty badly lost imo. She got lost in an alternate future that probably isn't going to happen anymore so it's near impossible to find any way of bringing her back. If Peter wanted to bring Simone back, he'd be altering history a lot, which he seems to have no interest in doing. It seemed like Hiro altered history more than is showing in the current episode since Ando was waiting for past Hiro who still hadn't returned by the end of the show. And some "Black holes" are kinda covered by the graphic novels and stuff (we've hardly seen Molly, but she was part of the Rebellion in the graphic novels).--Jas3point14 19:51, 4 November 2009 (EST)
        • LOL CAITLIN, even i could barely remember what character that was. i bet the writers have no idea either anymore. --Lolwut 12:27, 6

November 2009 (EST)--Lolwut 12:27, 6 November 2009 (EST)--Lolwut 12:27, 6 November 2009 (EST)

          • From what I understand, there was supposed to be more of Caitlin in the show but when the writer's strike came along, they had to alter the original storyline and as a result, she was kind of lost in the shuffle. --kedomi84 1546, 6 November 2009 (PST)

Trivia of Spiderman

Do you know that even though in his blog Hiro says the green goblin kills Gwen Stacy, it was actually spiderman that caused her to die!--mc_hammark 12:02, 4 November 2009 (EST)

  • Actually, Spiderman never knew if it was him who killed stacy by grabbing her, or the Green Goblin by throwing her.
    • Well since he caught her, he was the one that caused her death. --mc_hammark 15:06, 4 November 2009 (EST)
      • That has always been a point of uncertainty in the comics. Spiderman was never sure if she was dead before he even grabbed her or if catching her by the webline snapped her neck. Its a point they visit several times in the comics, as he feels guilty that it might have been his fault but he will nver know. --kedomi84 1549, 6 November 2009 (PST)
        • For arguments sake, the Green Goblin kills her because he puts her in the predicament. Much like how Jigsaw in the Saw movies is the killer even though it is those in the traps who often make their fate. --Action Figure 23:05, 10 November 2009 (EST)


This episode takes place before Sylar takes Charlie's power in the original timeline. In this episode (Villains)it is revealed that Noah was spying on Sylar and used Elle to gain his confidence. This would mean that Noah Bennet was well aware of who Gabriel Gray was and what he looked like. However, the retcon in Once Upon a Time in Texas reveals that HRG was present at the Burnt Toast Diner along with Sylar, Hiro, and Charlie. So why is he not alarmed at all by Gabriel's presence? This makes no logical sense. Your head explode. -Barbedknives (talk)02:55, 4 November 2009 (EST)

  • Well... Sylar is good at hiding. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
    • Noah never knew that Gabriel was Sylar. Only Chandra ever knew that Gabriel had become Sylar. Gabriel never used the alias with Noah or Elle and had only used it with Brian Davis before Noah ever got involved. Even if he had recognized Gabriel hiding in the corner under a hat while Noah had his back completely turned to him (and was in the diner before Sylar ever entered and left before Charlie was supposed to be murdered), Noah wouldn't necessarily make the connection that Gabriel was the Sylar whom he didn't have a confirmed face or identity for. They inserted a line about how Noah didn't know who Sylar was. Noah knew who Gabriel was for sure; which is why when he was caught and identified, Noah made a point of calling him Gabriel in Fallout. Villains explained Noah's knowledge of Gabriel Gray and the comment about his degraded DNA in Fallout. If Noah hadn't met Gabriel before, he wouldn't have known that Gabriel has changed at all, would he? NileQT87 01:12, 5 November 2009 (EST)
      • Thanks for clearing that up, I had forgotten that Gabriel hadn't taken the alias when Noah knew about him. Still, there would have been some tension if Noah had noticed the guy in the black coat and hat was Gabriel. I think it's interesting that this episode which was technically a retcon took place so shortly after Villains, which could be considered a retcon as well. -Barbedknives (talk)03:24, 5 November 2009 (EST)
      • Actually, in retrospect, this is still incorrect. Noah knew that Gabriel was a watchmaker so it is unreasonable to believe that he didn't know that Sylar was a watch brand after studying the case for even just a little bit. Secondly, he knew what Gabriel's power was AND most importantly that Gabriel and Sylar shared the same MO: hunting other people for their powers. We're supposed to believe that one of the company's best agents just overlooked this kind of evidence that was right in their face and obvious after he had been studying the Gabriel Gray and Sylar cases so extensively? The facts: Noah knew all about Gabriel Gray as seen in season 3 episode Villains. Noah also knew Gabriel's ability, MO, and occupation. He was also at the time aware of Sylar's MO, and by extension ability. Doing any research would turn up the Sylar/watch connection. It is entirely too unreasonable for the writers to just assume we'll suspend our disbelief on this and it is pretty evident it is a continuity error. Noah not noticing Sylar in the Burnt Toast Diner can be chalked up to him just being inattentive and Sylar wearing the coat/hat, but HRG not knowing WHO Sylar was, what he looked like, and what he could do is clearly a continuity error, further complicated by him somehow needing Issac to paint Sylar because 'he didn't know what he looked like'. Your thoughts? -Barbedknives (talk)12:29, 6 November 2009 (EST)
  • Speaking of plotholes, without Charlie's ability Sylar will never go on to kill Zane Taylor, impersonate him, follow Mohinder, get information on where to find and kill both Dale Smither and Isaac Mendez, without the painting ability he will never decide to take Ted Sprague's ability, and without the hearing he will never know where to find Ted Sprague. After that, he won't go to Kirby Plaza, meaning Matt doesn't get shot and Hiro never goes back to 1671, therefore never turning Adam Monroe into a villain. He'll never bump into Maya and Alejandro, Maya will never make it into the country, eventually not turning Mohinder into a "monster", and Alejandro will never die. I could go on ALL day... -- Tristan0709 talk 04:46, 5 November 2009 (EST)
    • Woah woah woah! Slow down buddeh. What makes you think he wouldn't go after Zane? He presumably had access to some lists of evolved humans, from which he based his first one on. Could you explain in more detail or cite a specific episode(s) to get a better idea of where you think your cascading plot failure occurs? -Barbedknives (talk)05:05, 5 November 2009 (EST)
      • Remember Road Kill, when Sylar uses Charlie's ability to drive a truck? He might not be able to do it on his own anymore. But it doesn't necessarily mean Sylar can't make it to Zane: he can just choose not to kill the driver or find a simpler vehicle. No reason to panic... Green.gif AltesUTC CH
      • Agreed Altes, I almost wrote the same thing with you and at the same time but didn't publish because of edit conflict :) --Janrodrigo 05:14, 5 November 2009 (EST)
        • Or he could just understand the complexity of the trucks system. or move it with telekinesis. --mc_hammark 15:35, 5 November 2009 (EST)
  • Understanding how to drive a truck makes sense, but using telekinesis to move it is just hilarious. I imagine him pushing the truck around with telekinesis instead of just driving it or using telekinesis to move himself faster. Kinda makes sense that his power seems so much more powerful than some of the other Heroes if he's using it all the time, and pushing a truck around would be a good workout.--Jas3point14 23:04, 5 November 2009 (EST)
As stated, there are plenty of logical workarounds where Sylar's history wouldn't become too different.--VanguardLogo.pnganguard 16:32, 7 November 2009 (EST)

Is mohinder dead?

Just asking, is there any proof that Mohinder is definetly dead? I mean, from the picture on the page at least, I can't see any blood on mohinder's body. Are we just assuming that mohinder is dead? --mc_hammark 15:51, 7 November 2009 (EST)

  • We should not assume Mohinder is dead any more than we should assume Matt died at the end of Season One. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:53, 7 November 2009 (EST)
    • Will I change is or would you like to do the honours? --mc_hammark 15:54, 7 November 2009 (EST)
      • I changed Mohinder's page, Samuel's page, and the portal/template where Mohinder is...but if you see any other spots, feel free to change them. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:59, 7 November 2009 (EST)
        • Of course he's dead! Honestly. The fact that it's considered speculative gives me an aneurism.
          • And how ironic is that sentence? Anyone for a high five? ^12345? --mc_hammark 16:44, 7 November 2009 (EST)
          • It might seem obvious, but it's not confirmed. Simone was not listed as dead until it was confirmed that she was dead. Matt was shot several times in the chest, and he didn't die. Dr. Witherson was in the same position as Mohinder, but her death was never confirmed. There are countless others who have been "obviously" dead, but turned out to not actually be dead. Likewise, until we have confirmation of a character's death (especially a major character like Mohinder), we don't assume anything. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:38, 7 November 2009 (EST)
            • But samuel needs hiro to go fix his "terrible deed", and mohinder isn't answering his phone. Dead is as dead does.Gamerelite1 22:04, 7 November 2009 (EST)
            • For all we know, Mohinder is only near death and Hiro will teleport him to a hospital and that is why no one has been able to contact him. We don't know abything untill it is confirmed. --Skullman1392 00:18, 8 November 2009 (EST)
            • Does it really matter if he's dead. It seems obvious Hiro will end up "saving" Mohinder so he is "alive and well" does it matter if he's "dead" now? Besides Samuel said "I'm Sorry" you don't apologize to someone who is near death, Samuel could've easily have saved Mohinder if he was still alive. I think the "I'm Sorry" is enough proof that Mohinder was dead. --Dman dustin 07:29, 8 November 2009 (EST)
              • "Because if you knock someone down with a car, you don't apologize unless it kills them" he says sarcastically. No, by the look on Samuel's face, whatever he done to Mohinder was an accident. And if you hurt someone accidentally you apologize to them, don't you? His saying sorry doesn't prove anything, other than he was sorry. --mc_hammark 09:09, 8 November 2009 (EST)
                • No, no, and no, this happened 8 weeks ago from when Samuel wanted Hiro's help. There is no reason why Samuel needs Hiro if it was merely an accident. Coupled with that fact with him apologizing, Mohinder had to have been dead. There is no reason why if Mohinder is still alive that Samuel would need Hiro's help. Sure argue he's in some sort of coma but that's way more speculative than him being dead. --Dman dustin 09:59, 8 November 2009 (EST)
                  • We're not speculating that he's in a Coma, we're just pointing out the fact that there is no proof that Mohinder is definitely dead. There has been no funeral or disposal of his body that we have seen of, and it is speculative to say that he is 100% dead, when there are many other possibilities. What we have put on the pages, does not say if he is dead, or if he is alive, but that he was attacked by Samuel. That way we aren't incorrect when the truth comes out. Personally, I think Mohinder was killed by Samuel, but there is just no proof of it just now. --mc_hammark 10:04, 8 November 2009 (EST)
  • This is just my two cents, but I was led to believe by the last episode that Mohinder's death was the mistake that Samuel wants Hiro to fix? As in, Hiro will save Mohinder? -- Tristan0709 talk 23:54, 8 November 2009 (EST)

Sylar/Zachary Quinto accent

Where the heck is zachary quinto from and what accent is that? di anyone notice in the bus scene when he said who are you? and what do you want with me he sound so english!! kind of like back in season 3 when he was pretending to be an FBI agent but there he had an exscuse for the change in voice. here he was just talking to hiro. Does zachary quinto put on an accent for sylar is basically what im trying to ask i guess?

  • Zachary Quinto is near from where I live--Pittsburgh. He has a somewhat affected voice, much like Madonna or Michael Jackson. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:17, 8 November 2009 (EST)
    • "Sylar" puts on a lot of East Coast and Southern accents while putting on characters to blend in. Zachary Quinto has a bit of a lilt to his speech. Actually, his Sylar voice is quite a bit more butched up than his real one. I'm fairly certain it was because Zachary Quinto was a drama geek. A lot of people with a lot of drama school/theater training often talk like that. You should hear the Russian accent he put on for the Star Trek novelization on tape--it's a spot-on impression of Bartok, the cartoon bat from Anastasia, rather than Chekov. The accent that he seemed to really struggle the most there with was Scotty's Scottish. Sylar's habit of putting on accents is a nod to Zachary Quinto's drama geek roots. NileQT87 17:02, 8 November 2009


Why do we list all of the cheerleaderd (six of them) in appearances, when none of them appeared only for a second or so and didn't talk at all? Is it because we know who portrayed them? It doesn't seem fair to me. --Janrodrigo 01:59, 9 November 2009 (EST)

  • P.S. And 5 of them were even not even credited. --Janrodrigo 02:00, 9 November 2009 (EST)
    • You think it isn't fair? You should take a look at this lol =) but yes, if a character is credited, he/she gets a page. And all the six cheerleaders are credited. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
      • Yep, they were all credited. And they all had lines, although the lines were exactly the same. We are the Wildcats and we're here to say hello, to our friends the Roughnecks, from San Antonio! We're psyched and we're ready to come out on top, don't even try to fight it 'cuz we can't be stopped! :) --Radicell 02:58, 9 November 2009 (EST)
        • Wow, nice line. I haven't noticed it. And thanks :) --Janrodrigo 03:32, 9 November 2009 (EST)
          • By the way, where do you check the credits? I'd checked it on IMDB. Is there a better source for when I wanna check on future episodes? --Janrodrigo 03:34, 9 November 2009 (EST)
            • IMDb is severely lacking in the credits department. What is normally done here, is people read the credits as they scroll by after the episode airs. --Radicell 03:53, 9 November 2009 (EST)
              • I watched this episode directly by the channel NBC and live but didn't see any credits at the end of the episode. It was weird. Suppose they put them in the DVDs later huh. If they don't put the credits when they air, they probably do it when they put the episode on, which I can't watch. --Janrodrigo 04:53, 9 November 2009 (EST)

Page updating

Hi all, someone should really make the Once Upon a Time in Texas character updates for Sylar and Noah because an other episode is real close by.--Yoshi n1 11:56, 9 November 2009 (EST)

  • I just did Sylar's update, anybody wants to do Noah's?--Yoshi n1 17:03, 9 November 2009 (EST)

Best episode

I think this is the best episode of season 4 till now, anybody agrees?-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 10:27, 1 January 2010 (EST)

Save the Waitress

Hmm, Present Hiro tells Past Hiro to save the waitress (obviously referring to Charlie), but did anyone else remember that in the Explosion Future (which at this point in the timeline was still going to happen) Claire was a waitress? I completely forgot about that until I was watching it there. --mc_hammark 16:57, 23 February 2010 (EST)

  • That's intresting. If Charlie was the waitress Future Hiro was talking about, the charcters in the present timeline are screwed, but I think that that timeline is history. (haha, get it?) Maybe we can write it off to just irony.--Dance4thedead 17:45, 23 February 2010 (EST)