Talk:Freezing: Difference between revisions

Ability Naming Conventions
	The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources	Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources	Webisodes,; Graphic Novels,; iStories,; Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources	Episode commentary,; Interviews,; Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities	Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities	Descriptions
6. Possessor's name	If no non-speculative; description is possible
	Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine freezing's name.
Source/Explanation
	Tracy's ability is explicitly listed on the file Nathan gives The President (Dual).

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Archives	Archived Topics
Dec 2006-Oct 2007	[[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w\| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w\| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w\| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w\| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w\| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w\| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w\| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w\| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w\| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message w]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]] • [[Talk:Cryokinesis/Archive 1# Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message \| Extension:DynamicPageList3 (DPL3), version 3.6.1: Error: MediaWiki\Extension\DynamicPageList3\Query::buildAndSelect: The DynamicPageList3 extension (version 3.6.1) produced a SQL statement which led to a Database error.<br/>The reason may be an internal error of DynamicPageList3 or an error that you made; especially when using parameters like 'categoryregexp' or 'titleregexp'. Usage of non-greedy <code>?</code> matching patterns are not supported.<br/>The error message ]]

Rename

More suggestions: Thermal Reduction, Thermal Removal, Thermal Absorption
Possible suggestions: Freezing, cold generation. I'd personally like to avoid anything which implies he makes ice (no evidence of that -- although ice forms on the surfaces he freezes, he needed the sprayer to make snow).--Hardvice (talk) 22:39, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
I suggest cryogenesis.--E rowe 22:43, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
- He isn't generating anything... he's manipulating the temperature of something. Freezing would be the short and sweet way to put the ability.--Riddler 22:46, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
  - True that cold is not actually a thing that can be generated, as it is just the absence of heat. But it can still be conceived that way. The problem with freezing is that to freeze something isn't just to make it cold, it is to turn it from liquid to solid. This power isn't a freezing power, it is a cooling power. Alternatives to cryogenesis that avoid the connotation of cold as a thing to be created may include "infrigidation", "decalorification", "thermoprivation" or some such word that implies removal of heat.--E rowe 22:58, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
    - All of those strike me as failing the "simple, easy-to-understand" test by a wide margin.--Hardvice (talk) 23:14, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
    - E rowe is right, when Sylar transformed the faucet spray in his mom's kitchen, he didn't just make ice, he made snow. So freezing isn't the right word. If we have to rename this, my choice would be refridgeration.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:07, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
      - Snow is ( a very thin) ice. But he didn't generate it, he froze the water as it came out.--Riddler 23:08, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
        Correct. I didn't suggest it was generation... read my below comments.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:30, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
        
        I admit my three earlier suggestions weren't simple. My favorite of the three is infrigidation, which is easy for a normal person to figure out. It's a real word. And it's an uncommon enough word to work as a technical term for power, whereas "refrigeration" suffers from the connotations of what refrigerators do (granted, they cool things, which is exactly what we're talking about, but still). And though snow is ice, it's just there because the power made water become cold, just like it made a sword become cold, which involved no freezing of anything. At any rate, if cryokinesis is good, then at the very least, cryogenesis is better.--E rowe 23:20, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
Incidentally, it's worth noting that Sylar refers to this ability as the ability to "freeze things" in The Line. It's not quite a canon name, but it gives us a better understanding of the power from his perspective.--Hardvice (talk) 23:22, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
For something simpler than "infrigidation" how about simply "frigidation". Not sure why I didn't think of that before.--E rowe 23:23, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
- Not that this makes a difference. But to the credit of "infrigidation", it is in the OED, whereas, interestingly, "frigidation" is not.--E rowe 23:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
- Still strikes me as needlessly highfalutin. Why use an obscure word most people aren't going to recognize? Sure, they can understand it when they see it, but nobody's going to think to type "frigidation" into a search box. The goal is not the fanciest/most technical name, but the most accurate/readily accessible one.--Hardvice (talk) 23:27, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
  - Refridgeration is simple to understand as most people nowadays know what a refridgerator is and does: it lowers the temperature. I don't see anything wrong with using the term. E rowe, can you explain why you don't like it?--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:30, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
    - It's an improvement over cryokinesis. I'm not totally opposed. But my main complaint is that it already has the baggage of the only time anybody ever uses the word being in the context of a refrigerator. It's so linked to refrigerators that it doesn't ever get used for cooling as a simple verb on its own. Whereas a coined word or an uncommon word that means the same thing won't have that baggage..--E rowe 23:34, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
      - That's not baggage, imho. It's a bonus in my book as people will know what we're referring to. In fact, we were very close to naming Molly's power "human GPS" before the official terminology was released. Take a look at the discussion history for "clairvoyance" and also "electronic data tranception" to get an idea of how those discussions were going.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:46, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
        Refrigeration is easy to understand. But, at least to me, it does have baggage, not just because people already know the word, but because they already have one single ingrained association for it. The verb "refrigerate" in modern usage doesn't simply mean "make cold" (though that was its sole usage in older English), but it frequently means specifically to keep something cool in a refrigerator, or some other place to preserve food. That's what I meant by baggage. This super villain has the power of refrigeration. This one doesn't.--E rowe 10:53, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
  - I agree with your points Hardvice. But until the show gives the power a name, those problems will always exist. Many people certainly won't type cryokinesis in a search box without knowing to, and honestly not many will spontaneously think to search "cold generation" or "refrigeration". All we can do for that problem is redirect as many of the likely terms as we can. But for the main name of the power, it sounds better if it's somewhat technical, but it should also be intuitive enough for people to see why it's called that, and it should accurately describe what we know of the power as much as possible.--E rowe 23:39, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
I like cryokinesis. Not only does it have a certain ring to it, but it's also a fairly well-established word, just not as much as pyrokinesis. --Hero!^(talk)_(contribs) 23:43, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
- Just to be clear, I still prefer to keep cryokinesis as well. My second choice is refridgeration.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:46, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
- I wish I could say the same. But every time I see cryokinesis it's like fingernails on a chalk board just because I know the word's parts don't mean what this power does. There's no kinesis, at least as far as we've seen.--E rowe 23:48, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
  - Perhaps the kinesis is the slowing down of molecular motion, or the transfer of heat away from the object at a molecular level. General Shane 06:31, 16 November 2007 (EST)
- Refrigeration sounds good. To me, the suffix "kinesis" sounds a tad stupid used in any power other than telekinesis. - Hive 00:06, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
  - "kinesis" is movement, correct? Cryokinesis can be using a power to slow down (or moving the particles slower, or into a more solid alignment) the whatever that's being cooled. It works. General Shane 06:31, 16 November 2007 (EST)
    - Sure, the name can be justified, which is why "cryokinesis" has stood for so long on the site, I guess. But it's probably not the best name, in my opinion. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:37, 16 November 2007 (EST)
  - Refrigeration sounds terrible, come on let's be serious. It's worse than Cryokinesis. If a new fan to the show came on here and saw that they would laugh. Plus Cryokinesis sounds cool and it's cool to say. Go on say it, when I say it I see Sylars cold dead hands, his victims and generally ice. When I say Refrigeration I see a refrigerator not a cool a** power on my favourite show. No puns intended, im English, I can't pull off "awesome". --SomeoneImportant 13:23, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
    - Heh, I think it's cool that you can laugh at it. When I think refrigeration, I realize that it's not just something done for food, and it isn't necessarily just a box. Air conditioners can be used for refrigeration. There are refrigerated trucks that transport food and boxes that transport organs for hospitals. That said, if people are really that said against refrigeration, we can just call it "temperature lowering", since that is what it is. It doesn't sound cool, but people will understand it.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:48, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
      - You might realise that Refrigeration doesn't just mean a fridge but people who haven't been obsessing about it don't. I think you're underestimating the show's audience, i.e. the kind of people that will understand Cryokinesis. --SomeoneImportant 14:01, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
        I agree with you, Someone, about "refrigeration". But the main problem with "cryokinesis" is that it's just plain wrong, no matter who thinks they understand it. The reason we can't call this power "cryokinesis" is the same as the reason we can't call it "speed reading", namely, it's not what the power does.--E rowe 14:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
I would say Freeze or Freezing. -Lөvөl 14:05, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
- If we're going to go with absolute maximal simplicity, we should just go with "cold" instead of "freeze". To freeze something is to make it turn from liquid to solid, which is too limited of a description of this power.--E rowe 14:20, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
The problem with changing the name of this power is that there aren't really any easy, simple, accurate names that can be applied to it. You can't really tack on a "Manipulation" to the power, because what's he manipulating? If he's removing heat, then he's technically manipulating heat and "Heat Manipulation" is a vastly innacurate term for it. "Temperature Manipulation," similarly, implies that he can add as much as remove heat. "Cold Manipulation" suffers the same problems and the name sounds like he's manipulating things that are already cold as is. "Freeze/Freezing" suffers from sounding far too simplistic and (though it has yet to be shown) the power may have applications beyond simply freezing water; "Freeze/Freezing" locks out the possibility that he can bring moisture to a cold, though not freezing, temperature and would need a further name change if such a development occurred. "Refrigeration" suffers from the connotations of the refrigerator and it's unlikely that anyone would search for "refrigeration" in relation to this power (even LESS likely than "Cryokinesis," I would dare say). -- Paronine 16:14, November 2 2007 (EDT)
- Use of the power for things other than freezing is not "yet to be shown". The use of the power to make the sword cold was not a case of "freezing" anything.--E rowe 16:34, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
  - Actually, he did freeze the blade through flash freezing. -- Paronine 16:39, 2 November 2007
    - What he did to the sword was neither freezing nor flash-freezing. The sword was already in solid form before he cooled it.--E rowe 16:44, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
      - This only gives credence to my point that "Freeze/Freezing" isn't a valid name for the power. Because he a) can likely cool objects to an above-freezing temperature and b) can cool already-solid objects, which isn't by definition "freezing." --Paronine 16:54, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
- The only name I can honestly agree with whole-heartedly is "Cold Generation." It seems to accurately describe the power, as what Sylar does is freeze moisture by generating a cold element (be it a freezing air, negative energy, whatever) from his hands. In the same way that Electromagnetism & Pyrokinesis generate electricity and fire respectively, Cryokinesis generates "coldness." If the name must be changed from Cryokinesis, this is the only one thus far proposed that I can get behind. -- Paronine 16:15, November 2 2007 (EDT)
  - So no one liked "Temperature lowering"? How about just plain "cooling"?--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:50, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
  - I agree. "Cold generation" is probably the best choice.--Hardvice (talk) 01:28, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
    - Except you can't generate coldness since coldness is the absence heat. "Heat extraction" would be a valid option, though, as he is literally extracting/removing the heat from the air or a person's body in order to do the cooling.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:39, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
      - That's a completely pedantic distinction. Making things colder is as good as generating cold, even if the actual mechanism at play is the removal of heat. Removing heat, for all intents and purposes, "creates" the condition of coldness. Darkness is the absence of light, but I'd take "Darkness generation" over "light removal" every day.--Hardvice (talk) 02:46, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
        I guess that's a glass half-empty/half-full kind of deal. ;) Anyways, "coldness generation" would be better since "cold" generation suffers the connotation of "cold" as a kind of virus/flu (ie. Maya's ability, only worse).--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:09, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
        I doubt anyone would make that connotation. My preference would be simply "Cold Generation." "Frost Generation" is also a viable alternative.--Paronine 12:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)
        
        I can honestly say my mind has never made that connection. Lulu 03:14, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
      - Cooling is my favourite so far. - Hive 02:49, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
- Man, this is harder to name than "Bliss and Horror" I like "Cold or ice manipulation.--Matt 2108 01:12, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
I'd put a vote in for "Heat removal". —Psiphiorg 22:43, 4 November 2007 (EST)
- - Holy dog shit, Cryokinesis is exactly what the power is, manipulation of cold. Seriously, heat removal? We dont call refridgerators "heat removal boxes". Making things is get cold really fast through force of will is cryokinesis. --Piemanmoo 01:54, 6 November 2007 (EST)
    - If we change this to "ice manipulation," then let's go ahead and change pyrokinesis to "fire manipulation" and technopathy to "machine talking."
    - Haha, "heat removal boxes." That's classic. =)--Ice Vision 22:32, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Cryokinesis is fine, leave it be. D: --AnotherNella 16:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)

It looks like "cold generation" is the most popular term among people who want to change it. I just can't see keeping it "Cryokinesis", since, notwithstanding the comments to the contrary, it's not an accurate name for this power, which is, as far as we've seen, nothing other than the cooling of things. "Cold generation", "Cryogenesis", "Infrigidation", and "Cooling" are all names that seem pretty good to me; "Refrigeration" and "Heat Removal" are a notch down; all of those are more accurate than "Cryokinesis". --E rowe 17:16, 6 November 2007 (EST)
- Adding cold and removing heat aren't necessarily the same thing. At the same time, it shouldn't even be an argument. Think about that as you read what we have in notes. "...I figured that the air around his hands would simply just get really, really cold ... I figured he could then extend and direct the coldness around his hands... But where does the water come from that forms the ice? Is it the oxygen in the air slowing down? Should I have drawn the ground wet from rain? ... I opted for the former. So my comic implies that he could freeze someone from a short distance (3 feet?)."--Riddler 00:03, 7 November 2007 (EST)

Here's my 2 copper-colored Lincoln coins: a Google search on Cryokinesis reveals about 23,000 hits. in the top 10, we are number 2, the rest are a bunch of 2 bit sites relating to the paranormal with inquiries on how to perform it. we have Sylar's concept of the power, "freeze things," which would be what a new, non-comic bookey fan might search for. Freezing is the only known use of this power, as those are the only examples seen. Non-technical names are not bad. I say we's better Keep it Simple, and call it freezing until we have evidence that it can do things other than freeze.--SacValleyDweller (talk) 20:55, 7 November 2007 (EST)

In response to that comment, I'll just point out that "Freezing" already redirects to "Cryokinesis", so anyone who searches for "Freezing" will find this page. --Ted C 13:20, 12 November 2007 (EST)
You know, I'm starting to like the sound of "Freezing" as well. --Hero!^(talk)_(contribs) 13:22, 12 November 2007 (EST)
- I don't have anything against it, myself. --Ted C 13:26, 12 November 2007 (EST)
  - It does have several advantages: it's simple, it fits with what we've seen, and it fits with Sylar's own description of his ability in The Line, which is the closest we've come to a canon mention of the power by name. It may be a bit too simple, in that it doesn't really imply that it's a superhuman ability to do something natural (it's a bit like calling Ted's power "radiation", Meredith's "fire", or Elle's "lightning"), but it's better than "cryokinesis", which in retrospect is not widely known and stretches the "-kinesis" suffix to the breaking point.--Hardvice (talk) 13:33, 12 November 2007 (EST)
    - I don't see anything wrong with simple, after all we do have flight, some of them do need to be longer for clarity though. -Lөvөl 14:19, 12 November 2007 (EST)
      - Nor do I. My only concern, which seems completely trivial at this point, is that if we use a common word for a power, we may eventually need it for another article. It's pretty unlikely we'd want an article called "Freezing" that isn't about a power, but some of the other examples I gave (radiation, fire, lightning) struck me as something we might eventually need for, say, an Events article. Now it's possible we could end up with a "Freeze" (like Explosion, Outbreak, Fire (1992), and the like), but even then we wouldn't have a conflict, really.--Hardvice (talk) 14:54, 12 November 2007 (EST)
Ladies, i think this settles it: http://theories.activatingevolution.org/swiki/wiki/index.php/Cryokinesis . Yatta.
- activatingevolution.org is not a canon source, and is full of vandalism, misinformation, and poorly administered edits. Sylar himself said he could freeze things. And I'm a gentleman. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:47, 2 December 2007 (EST)
  - Yeah, activatingevolution.org is basically a spam bucket. Look at one of the abilities there. =)--Ice Vision 23:02, 2 December 2007 (EST)

Vote to determine consesus and restate our arguments

so lets see if we have consensus on any rename of this power. if you have another name suggestion just add it below the others

Cryokinesis (leave the name alone)

General Shane 06:27, 16 November 2007 (EST)
--Dumpster juice 19:11, 16 November 2008 (EST)
FlamingTomDude 12:18, 19 November 2008 (EST) -- Quite frankly my vote isn't with the best intentions. I agree that freezing is more canon, but I think if we call pyrokinesis pyrokinesis, we should call freezing cryokinesis, I also think we should call lightning electrokinesis, but canonacy...
ACDC1989 Both Aron Coleite and Joe Pokaski used the term Crykinesis. They should know the correct terminology as they are the writers after all. --ACDC1989 12:16, 19 November 2008 (EST)
Fred1793 05:58, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Freezing

SacValleyDweller (talk) 01:26, 14 November 2007 (EST)
Riddler 01:30, 14 November 2007 (EST)
Hardvice (talk) 02:05, 14 November 2007 (EST)
Psiphiorg 04:05, 14 November 2007 (EST)
Lost Soul talk contribs 04:07, 14 November 2007 (EST)
Paronine 07:37, 14 November 2007 (EST)
Hero!^(talk)_(contribs) 11:02, 14 November 2007 (EST)
Mish 11:19, 14 November 2007 (EST)
MiamiVolts (talk) 12:58, 14 November 2007 (EST)
or Freeze -Lөv ө l 12:24, 14 November 2007 (EST)
-- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:13, 15 November 2007 (EST)
Bosco13 05:38, 29 April 2009 (EDT) Cryokinesis is a good name but people who aren't fanboys mite not understand it lol. Freezing is simpler

Cold Generation

E rowe 13:09, 14 November 2007 (EST). Similar alternatives, like "cold", "cold inducing", and "cold making" are as good.

There have been a few people wanting to express their opinions a year after we've had a consensus check, and that's fine. However, I should point out that at no time has "cryokinesis" been used in a canon or near canon source (see help:sources). Therefore, unless there was 100% agreement on a change, I couldn't see us going against our naming conventions to use a name that is both invented and not used in the Heroesverse. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:39, 19 November 2008 (EST)

Arguments

As for my arguments for Freezing, as stated in the above section, they are here: We have Sylar's concept of the power, "freeze things," which would be what a new, non-comic bookey fan might search for. Freezing is the only known use of this power, as those are the only examples seen. Non-technical names are not bad. Its Better to Keep it Simple, and call it freezing until we have evidence that it can do things other than freeze--SacValleyDweller (talk) 01:26, 14 November 2007 (EST)

My vote is for Freezing for lack of a better word. I'm going strictly on what we have written down in notes (and I bolded above).--Riddler 01:30, 14 November 2007 (EST)
- I'm in the same boat. The only two names suggested that are appropriate for the power are Freezing and Cold Generation. The former is simple, direct, and doesn't seem that mundane once you get used to it. It gets my vote purely based on lesser of all evils status.--Paronine 07:39, 14 November 2007 (EST)
  - I have nothing against Freezing. In fact, I think that was what we originally called this power. However, I'm not sufficiently motivated to change the name that I'll actually register a vote. --Ted C 10:57, 14 November 2007 (EST)
    - Freezing is only one of the effects of the power. It clearly isn't limited to freezing things. It makes things cold, and if the thing that it makes cold happens to be water, then it freezes. But if it happens to be a solid metal sword, then it just gets really really cold and brittle, which is not freezing.--E rowe 13:09, 14 November 2007 (EST)
      - Would cryogenics work then? -Lөv ө l 13:28, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        My opinion is that the sword was frozen in a shell of ice (check the image), so freezing is appropriate, and that's what it has been called in the story. Sure, Sylar may be able to just reduce the temperature slighltly, but he hasn't yet--it's always been freezing cold when he used the ability. Cryogenics has the connotation of freezing people for later revival (for a similar reason, we can't use refrigeration).--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:57, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        The issue isn't whether or not he can make something slightly cold or very cold. The issue is whether the power is strictly one of making liquids become solids (i.e. freezing), or if it is one of making things cold, regardless of the state of matter they happen to be. We know for sure that the power is not strictly one of freezing things. Even if the sword was covered with a sheet of ice, it still isn't an example of him freezing anything, unless you mean that he froze a coating of water that was on the sword before that. Also, if all he did was make water on the sword freeze, then why did it break? Coating metal with ice doesn't change the properties of the metal. The sword broke because he made it very cold, much colder than ice. The power in that example can't possibly have been simply making water turn from liquid to solid (i.e. freezing), it had to be making the sword very cold. So it's hard for me to see why we would choose a name that limits it to something more specific than it really is. On the show the power has never been called "freezing". Sylar's remark that he's able to freeze things is not an example of giving a name to a power, it's merely his description of something he's done. Nobody disputes that this power can be used to freeze things. But to give that as it's name implies that it is limited to that, which it isn't.--E rowe 14:33, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        I disagree that it matters if he froze the sword colder than ice. He still froze it, and that's what's important, imho. As for the ice that appeared on the sword, my theory is that the sword became so cold ice frosted onto it, not that it matters.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:18, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        He didn't freeze the sword. The sword, like all swords, was solid before he touched it. The freezing/melting point for any kind of metal (except mercury) is very hot, not very cold. He, by touching metal that was already frozen (i.e. it was already in solid form), made it very cold and brittle. The presence of frost that formed on this very cold metal (which tends to happen to cold metal) is incidental to the fact that he made the sword cold. He didn't freeze it.--E rowe 20:14, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        My mistake, then, what I was trying to say was that he froze frost onto the sword.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:33, 14 November 2007 (EST)
      - Cryogenics is the word for the field of study. The cognate for the actual process of making something cold would be cryogenesis, which is a term discussed above that didn't gain much support.--E rowe 14:31, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        Thats Cryonics. -Lөv ө l 14:12, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        Cryo-whatever has that connotation. Similarly, there's infrigeration, which has the same connotation as refrigeration (see arguments above the voting).--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:20, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        Cryo-whatever does not have that connotation. It only has that connotation if the suffix added to "cryo" is appropriate for a word meaning to make something cold. I.e. cryokinesis doesn't have that connotation. Cryogenesis does. Infrigidation also does. But infrigeration is not a word. Refrigeration used to have that connotation. But now it mainly refers to storing food in a refrigerator.--E rowe 14:31, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        E rowe, I agree to disagree here, cause I still think of people in state of frozen animation whenever I hear cryo-something, and I don't think I'm alone in that thought.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:18, 14 November 2007 (EST)
        My bad. I wasn't talking about frozen animation.--E rowe 20:20, 14 November 2007 (EST)
Regarding the argument that "freezing" should only refer to liquids solidifying, let me quote from Merriam-Webster's Dictionary:
intransitive verb
1 a: to become congealed into ice by cold b: to solidify as a result of abstraction of heat c: to withstand freezing <the bread freezes well>

2: to become chilled with cold <almost froze to death>

3, 4: [omitted]

5: to become clogged with ice <the water pipes froze>

transitive verb
1 a: to harden into ice b: to convert from a liquid to a solid by cold

2: to make extremely cold : chill

3 a: to act on usually destructively by frost b: to anesthetize by cold

4, 5, 6: [omitted]

It seems to me that all of Sylar's uses of this "coldness" power meet at least one of these definitions of "freeze".
--Psiphiorg 22:52, 14 November 2007 (EST)
- Yes! I like this argument for "Freezing"--SacValleyDweller (talk) 23:05, 14 November 2007 (EST)
  - Agreed. It can be "freezing" cold outside even when there is nothing to freeze. To my mind, "freezing" doesn't imply the power to make liquids solid at all--it implies the ability to generate a temperature which would make liquids solid. A "freezer" (the thing attached to a refrigerator) doesn't promise to freeze anything you put in it. It just promises to maintain a temperature below 32°F. It wouldn't freeze nitrogen, but that doesn't mean it isn't a freezer. We have no idea exactly what temperature Sylar creates, but it's low enough to freeze water.--Hardvice (talk) 01:00, 15 November 2007 (EST)
  - I like freezing for the above mentioned reasons (simplicity, near canon mention from Sylar, it fits). But like any good geek I've read alot of comics and played RPG's where the same ability is called cryokinesis, so I'm just as comfortable with it. As far as other names, until Mohinder gives it a mouthful of words, I'm happy with either of those two using the other one as a redirect.--Mish(Talk) 07:41, 15 November 2007 (EST)
    - Looks like freezing is a pretty strong consensus. I still don't like saying that what Sylar did to the sward was freezing it. But I can't deny that that's one way to use the word, so it's not wrong.--E rowe 16:52, 15 November 2007 (EST)
      - I also like the idea of keeping a power name simple and inclusive until it's been assigned a specific canon name like Rapid Cellular Regenerative Monkey Hoo....or whatever. It feels more in line with the Heroes motif.--Mish(Talk) 17:00, 15 November 2007 (EST)
Freezing is just as bad as 'burning' for pyrokinesis in my opinion. It's just waay too simple, although it passes the ease in understanding test. -Barbedknives (talk)22:49, 29 March 2009 (EDT)
- You're adding to a pretty old discussion from almost a year and a half ago...but "freezing" is a canon name that probably won't be changing any time soon. See here. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:05, 29 March 2009 (EDT)

Consensus

It looks like we have pretty good consensus in favor of "freezing" right now. If the scales stay tipped that way, I think the article should probably move by the end of this weekend...or I guess at the beginning of the weekend. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:31, 15 November 2007 (EST)

That's probably good, since after working on the power source chart, I'm pretty convinced that "freezing" is a canon source name based on Sylar's description ("freeze things") the same way "flight" is based on Peter saying "fly", "invisibility" is based on Claude saying "invisible", and "space-time manipulation" is based on Hiro saying he can "manipulate space and time", etc.--Hardvice (talk) 20:51, 15 November 2007 (EST)
Freezing is a lot better. I'm glad it's been changed. Because most people have no idea what cryokinesis is. Pyrokinesis probably but not cryo.
- Isnt that what the picture is for? Plus I am starting to hate all the renaming. WHO REALLY CARES THAT MUCH? Is there really all these people with no life sitting around being like "well i don't really like that name so i should argue with half the internet about it"? If people don't know what cryo means than we should inform them instead of changing the name to Freezing... freezing doesn't make any sense. If i heard that someone's power was freezing i would assume anything they touch automatically becomes a popsicle. the kinesis part of that means that its controlled through their brain and cryokinesis is really the right term for this ability. All these name changes to retarded things like "lightning" and "freezing" are really really REALLY useless and a waste of time. Just change them back and make on with your days.--.Vault 15:45, 20 November 2007 (EST)
Woah, calm down. Why don't you take a look at our naming standards? --Hero!^(talk)_(contribs) 16:59, 20 November 2007 (EST)
- Sorry I was just trying to prove a point not come off as a raving lunatic, okay so with your naming standards that you provided me, Freezing is below cryokinesis (also known as Cold and Ice Manipulation) as seen here, cause "Names in common use in other works" is higher on the list than "Descriptive names".... anyone catching my drift here?? Also, slyar didn't freeze the roads in the Graphic Novel "Road Kill" he iced them... there is a difference. Freezing the roads would just lower the tempurature of the road... ICING the road provided a slippery surface for the cop cars to slide on. Just another reason why Freezing doesn't seem fit.--.Vault 10:25, 22 November 2007 (EST)
  - I think it was your use of all caps, insinuating that people have no life, and your offensive use of the word "retarded" that made people upset, not that you were trying to make a point....You're right, names in common use in other works take a higher priority than a descriptive name. However, canon sources are higher in the hierarchy (in fact they're the highest). In The Line, Sylar described his ability as "freezing things", so we use that name he gave. As for the example from Road Kill, you're right--I assume Sylar probably technically froze the moisture in the air right above I-95, and not the road itself. However, it's perfectly acceptable to say the roads were frozen, Sylar was responsible, ∴ Sylar froze the roads. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:45, 22 November 2007 (EST)
    - Yes. And besides, what really are the other works out there that use the word "cryokinesis" for this kind of super power? Are we talking about something major like Marvel and DC comics? Or are we talking about individuals who make up names for powers on other wiki sites and forums? Whatever insignificant precedent there might be for the word "cryokinesis", it's not good enough to overcome the fact that the word doesn't mean what this power does. The big problem people had with it wasn't the prefix "cryo", it was the suffix "kinesis". This is the same reason "electrokinesis" was wrong. Pyrokinesis is better, not only because of its precedent, but also because we've seen the power used to do what this word means, which is to move flames.--E rowe 12:46, 22 November 2007 (EST)
  - Yesh. The first time I ever heard Cryokinesis was this page actually! haha. Jason Garrick 22:54, 23 November 2007 (EST)

freezing - no way. freezing is the process whereby a liquid turns to a solid. and also cryogenis sounds so much better. if u dumb down this name you might as well call Technopathy "machine talking" for gods sake.

It's not a matter of "dumb down," it's a mater of "Document the canon," regardless of how it sounds or what precedent there may be for calling it something else. Sylar, and therefore canon, calls it "freeze things" ergo, "freezing." Now, if The Company or Mohinder, who both have more expertize on this in-universe, call it something more fancy/technical, "cryogenesis" for example, then we will have grounds to rename it to that, or whatever other technical name they may apply. Empirical observations of the power meet the definitions of freezing that Psiphiorg brought to light in the arguments section above, validating the name. As it stands now we have no reason to change it other than the frivolous semantics of "it sounds bad" or "it's too dumbed down." fixing those would negate the purpose of this Wiki, which is to document canon.--SacValleyDweller (talk) 22:45, 25 November 2007 (EST)

Tracy Strauss

I took these screenshots for a possible example of Tracy Strauss freezing the journalist. (I don't know how to get previews up so I'll just link them) http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=manfreezesbm5.png http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=manbreaksapartsz3.png

Should we call Pyrokenisis "heating?"

If not, then "Freezing" should be renamed to "Cryokinesis." Even Wikipedia agrees with me. Zelrio 20:14, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

And what does a consensus prove? Just because there are a lot of people on the internet who can't understand words over three syllables doesn't mean it's correct. Zelrio 20:20, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

This is not wikipedia, they generally use comic book terminology. If you would read help:naming conventions, you would see that there's a rank and structure to why we name a power what we have. In the episode The Line, Sylar explicitly refers to his ability as "freezing things". There is no other reference to a name aside from this in an episode, so this is the name we use.--Bob (talk) 20:20, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
I didn't say this was Wikipedia. Did Claire's mother ever refer to her ability as Pyrokenisis? You didn't answer my question, I see. So let's just rename that article to "heeting stufz." Oh well, I see you and your buddies think the word is too big, so we should just call it the same thing kindergartners do. After all, they're clearly the highest rank in this Wiki's hierarchy. Zelrio 20:24, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
- Well thanks for the insult. I really do appreciate the fact that you don't care what our policies when I try to explain them to you. You joined this site on your own free will, and I'm explaining to you what we do around here. We go by what the show says, and in the show, the only reference to it is Sylar saying he "freezes", nothing about "cryo" anything. Meredith's power is explicitly called "pyrokinesis" on an assignment tracker for the new villain Flint in the most recent episode. You should read the discussion pages on the powers to read in depth why we name everything the way we do.--Bob (talk) 20:28, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
  - Don't have a heart attack, I read that crappy page. I can sum it up right now as a matter of fact "most people on this wiki are incompetent, so the information, names of articles, etc. should follow suit." Going by that, why is Elle's power called "lightning?" That's too confusing for us here on the heroes wiki who apparently have an IQ of 75, and besides, isn't her power over electricity, not lightning (which comes from nature)? When was her ability referred to as "lightning?" Zelrio 20:34, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
    - It's apparent there's no getting through to you since you think we're a bunch of incompetents. But again, you joined our site on your own, and yet you don't even want to know why we do what we do. READ THE POWER PAGES if you want to know why they're named. We have those nifty boxes at the top of each page to explain it.--Bob (talk) 20:38, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
      - The fact that you're getting upset to the point where you must resort to bold and capitalized letters shows me just how much a friendly, internet argument does to you. Don't worry buddy I read the "lightning" page, no explanation as to why it's called that. So basically, someone with the mentality of a 7 year old would look up "lightning" rather than "electricity," so this wiki will adjust itself to those standards. It's "easier," right? And those who are ignorant often take the easy way, correct? Well then, both you and the rules of this wiki agree with me, it appears that this site is catered to the incompetent. Checkmate, friend. Zelrio 20:44, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
        If you looked up the lightning page and still have no idea why it's named that, I daresay somebody else here's rather "incompetent". --Ciwey 20:48, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
        
        Checkmate? I didn't realize we were playing here. From the lightning page, "The name of "lightning" has been explicitly used to refer to this ability numerous times, most notably in Petrified Lightning and Four Months Ago....". It's not a matter of names being to simple for our users, it's that we actually document what is said on the episodes. Peter called the ability lightning. In the graphic novels, also written by the writers of Heroes, it's referred to as lightning. I'm not going to discuss its name on this page, so you can go here if you feel the need to argue a point we already discussed almost a year ago. This isn't me trying to "argue" or "fight" with you. I'm here explaining the naming conventions of this wiki, yet you continually insult its users, which as of a few minutes ago, includes you. So if you feel the need to further this, by all means do, but it doesn't help the fact that this ability was referred to, in a canon source, as freezing.--Bob (talk) 20:49, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
        You, I, and everyone else are always playing. Life's a game, friend. I see that you've resorted to a low however, you had to bring in a little buddy of yours. A 2 on 1 sure is fair, huh? You two are also acting like I did anything more than ask a question. When did I ever say that this wiki sucked? I asked if it was made for those who are stupid and I received no direct answer, so what should I assume? Zelrio 20:52, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
        This isn't a fight or whatever you're taking it as. It's a Talk Page, and anybody is free to give their opinion. You might find that members of HeroesWiki (or, well, pretty much anywhere else) don't take it too well if you insult them. --Ciwey 20:54, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
        I insulted no one. From the start I've only asked questions. The comment I posted previous to the one where you joined in was filled with questions and almost none answered. I asked if this wiki is made for those who prefer the easier way, I received no definitive answer, except that it was about "documentation." If someone thinks of the ability as freezing, rather than cryokenisis, do you think they'd really care about exact documentation? Zelrio 20:59, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
        Calling the users and readers here incompetent because of the way an ability is named is very insulting. Grow up.--Riddler 21:03, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
        
        You insulted no one, huh? Yeah, not even gonna dignify that claim by responding to it. And as for your question - no. We do not make it for those who prefer the easy way. The purpose of this Wiki is to document the canon, not to document general consensus. If it's stated as freezing in canon, we name this page freezing. End of story. That explicit enough for you? --Ciwey 21:05, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
        And a third little man comes in to play, huh? Riddler, congratulations, by telling me to "grow up" you insulted me as well, and made yourself a hypocrite.

Ciwey- By addressing my claim you "dignified it." Good day to you ladies, I'm off to watch the Presidential Debate. Zelrio 21:07, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

This conversation needs to end now as it is degrading into insults and harsh words and does not further the discussion of the page in question. I suggest users on both sides of the argument not respond to this particular thread as the arguments are becoming antagonistic and contentious in nature. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:02, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
Internet. Serious buisness. --Piemanmoo 06:04, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
- You have no idea how frustrated I was when this happened. I really wanted to post the picture for "arguing on the internet is like..." --Bob (talk) 17:33, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
- This is sad. Trolls are best dealt with by ignoring them, which I suggest you do. ~~ Darmenos 15:28, 17 October 2008
There are many people on wikipedia like this that believe that their way is the only way. It gets frustrating when people don't want to just let something go or at least make their point understood in a more civil manner. Information on wikis (regardless if it is wikipedia or Heroes Wiki) is not always based on what is factual, but what is based on popular opinon. Trying to make your opinon popular will not get done if you are rude and offensive. On a related note, one of my favorite articles on wikipedia is criticism of Wikipedia. --Pinkkeith 16:48, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

By the way, Zelrio, you misspelled "pyrokinesis," "heating" and "stuff." I'll leave the rest to you guys.--ERROR 20:45, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

I believe Zelrio was doing that on purpose, in an attempt to show why he thought it was silly to use a simplistic name. But that was almost a year ago, and there is no need to bring it up again, especially with a discussion that was riddled with contention, insults, and immaturity. Let's leave past discussions in the past, please. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:24, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

Image

Shouldn't the image for the power be Sylar freezing Hiro's sword, because it actually shows the person freezing it, and not just the thing being frozen? TheEvilNoob 14:49, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Although both images are good, I prefer the flower because it's simply a clearer image of the object being frozen. The sword just looks like blue sword or like a sword in artistic lighting. (Actually, I don't think it looks much like a sword at all.) Since Image:Powers Tracy Freezing Flower.jpg is used widely, and it's a more current version, and it's from a user who currently holds the power (and didn't have to steal it), I'll go ahead and revert now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:46, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

Icing?

I thought it should be noted that on an interview with Ali Larter on nbc.epk.tv (http://nbc.epk.tv/view.aspx?request=episode&show=heroes-season-3&episode=eris-quod-sum&showEpisodeID=530&clip=interview-excerpts-ali-larter-%E2%80%93-%E2%80%9Ctracy-strauss%E2%80%9D), Ali calls her power "Icing" and says which is the power to freeze things. Maybe that's the name the writers use for that power?

Interviews are secondary sources, and episodes place higher than interviews on the naming convention. --Ciwey 06:05, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
- To be fair, interviews place higher than descriptions of abilities. Ricard Desi 20:40, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
  - Not interviews with actors. If it were, say, Tim Kring, or Joe Pokaski, that might be a different story. The naming convention is pretty clear about interviews being with the show's creators. Incidentally, Greg Beeman has called Mohinder's ability "bug-like powers", "bug-crawl", and "bug power", but we've never changed the name of that ability (though I think it's high time we look at different names at this point). I don't think there are any written rules or guidelines about interviews, but I don't think an offhand comment even by a show's creator would necessarily "count". But that's another issue not for this page. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:09, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Cryokinesis and Freezing (Should be divided in 2 pages)

I'm really bothered about the two abilities, I think that there should be two different ability page in "Cryokinesis" and "Freezing" because:

1) Cryokinesis means to control ice or release it like Iceman.

In this pic, as we can see, Sylar is releasing the ice and not touching something and freeze it. Which shows its, Cryokinesis.

2) Freezing on the other hand, is when you touch things and it freezes.

- Most of the Freezing shown in TV, is when Tracy touches stuff and makes ice. Not releasing it.NiveKJ13 17:26, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

Check Jason Badowers blog post regarding that page of the GN here --SacValleyDweller (talk) 00:23, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
- Jason's the artist, so I think his post explains his confusion rather well. I don't see a separate page as needed.--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:37, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Sylar has actually frozen things without touching them before. If you recall, he was able to turn the water coming from Virginia's sprayer to snow while keeping his hand a small distance away. In addition, we only see him touch the Kensei sword to freeze it. It would appear that the ability can be used via direct contact or close proximity, and it seems clear that Sylar's copied ability and Tracy's ability are the same (or at least extremely similar). I feel "Cryokinesis" would be a more accurate term than "Freezing" (gerund cases in particular just sit awkwardly), but I understand why Freezing is still the name. I have the feeling that when Tracy's Assignment Tracker comes out, this can all be put to rest, one way or another. Ricard Desi 15:23, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
- Some other short notes, while I'm here: "Cold Generation" or anything else describing the ability as "generation" or "creation" or the like is entirely incorrect from a scientific standpoint (I know, this show isn't exactly bound by real science, but bear with me...) Cold does not exist. It is the absence of heat. Thus there is no way to create an absence, what you'd be doing is removal. Figured I'd throw that in, in case people start calling for those names again. Ricard Desi 15:26, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
I'd suggest reading our naming convention to see where we got this name from. Cryokinesis is a coined term, whereas Sylar has explicitly called this ability "freezing". Hope that helps.--Bob (talk) 16:06, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
to be fair, Sylar explicity describes this ability as freezing things. --Max 22:46, 15 December 2008 (EST)

James Walker

Is it possible that Sylar could have absorbed this ability from James Walker? As James's body was found frozen when most of Sylar's other victims weren't

So Sylar opened James's head, stole the ability, and then froze him afterwards? Not likely. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:14, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
I read a very well written fanfiction about the possibility of James having that ability (though obviously non-canon, I just thought it was interesting). In the fic Sylar kills James and takes his ability, but then positions him in the chair and freezes him just to be cruel. Wouldn't that be something? -- FlamingTomDude 8:38, 7 November 2008 (EDT)
In the latest CBR they confirm that Sylar did indeed get the ability from James Walker and then froze him when he "tested" it. I guess it's possible he telekinetically held James motionless the whole time which is why he's in the middle of eating at the time. It didn't seem likely, but they seem to say pretty explicitly that it did come from James. How about that. (Admin 18:06, 17 November 2008 (EST))
- Yeah, I was disappointed at this. I really do think that some of the people on the writing staff should look at some of our discussions before they answer somewhat confusing questions. The CBR guys are great, but they choose poorly-worded questions a lot, and it becomes difficult to answer.--Bob (talk) 18:11, 17 November 2008 (EST)
If I were Sylar I would have killed James, taken the power, then positioned him like that to see just how good the power was. It must be pretty good to freeze someone into a certain position. -- FlamingTomDude 12:07, 19 November 2008 (EST)
Intriguing. The ability name should be changed to Cryokinesis as it was confirmed by both Aron Coleite and Joe Pokaski. --ACDC1989 12:18, 19 November 2008 (EST)
- Actually, it wasn't, the word cryokinesis only appears in the question, in their actual answer, they don't use that word, in fact, they don't use any word with a link to the power's nature at all. Intuitive Empath 12:52, 19 November 2008 (EST)
  - Exactly. The question referred to it as cryokinesis, and was not regarding the validity of that name. It appears to be an unintentional baiting situation, and the name should not be changed as a result. GabrielPetrelli 13:03, 19 November 2008 (EST)
What if James Walker tried to froze himself in that position for defense against Sylar so he wouldn't get his power. But Sylar froze him with Telekinesis and James couldn't finish the freezing process and stole his ability, leaving him frozen and open headed.--Catalyst 24:36 15 February 2009

CBR Interview does not confirm Cryokinesis as name

From the latest CBR: "“After ‘Villains,’ we still haven't found out where Sylar got cryokinesis from. The Graphic Novel ‘Dreams Until Death’ confirmed that Sylar cannot acquire powers if the person is dead, even if the brain is intact. Given the emphasis on James Walker (written in Sylar's list), does that mean that Sylar stole cryokinesis from him and then froze his body (testing his new ability)?”

Yes. That is exactly what we always thought. Killed. Absorbed. Tested. In that order, all in that Craftsman."

This does NOT confirm cryokinesis as the name of the ability. They simply answered the question (which wasn't about the name) using the name provided by the person asking. And the person asking is not a valid source for deciding the name. --GabrielPetrelli 13:08, November 19, 2008

Absolutely correct. (Admin 13:12, 19 November 2008 (EST))

New naming citation?

Should we change the naming citation for this name? It seems more explicitly named in Dual, with the President's file and such. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 22:02, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Yes, the file on Tracy confirms her ability name. Too bad, I was hoping for Cryokinesis. Oh well, at least the matter is settled. --Piemanmoo 02:00, 16 December 2008 (EST)
- They probably got the name from this site :) --Powermimic 04:54, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  - I wouldn't doubt it, the NBC Heroes site already has sections of this Wikia integrated in it, and I bet it's a lot easier for the writers to come check info here than to remember by themselves. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 09:58, 16 December 2008 (EST)
  - I have no doubt they got the name from here, Heroes Wiki users are probably the only ones that refer to it as freezing. xD Everyone else uses cryokinesis. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 21:45, 16 December 2008 (EST)

They definitely got the name from here. Check out the Space-Time Manipulation one.

Try searching Space-Time Manipulation in Google, in the same format of writing, all of it appears to be from the HeroesWiki site. --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 11:53, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Speculative

Affirming that James Walker had this ability is unfounded and very speculative. There is no concrete proof of this affirmation other than a very sarcastic answer in an interview. I suggest removal of said speculative information. Ikkian 19:34, 8 February 2009

I think Joe Pokaski and Aron Coleite's comment in this interview is very direct and plenty of evidence to include James on this page. When asked if Sylar stole the ability from James and then froze his body, the writer-producers said, "Yes. That is exactly what we always thought. Killed. Absorbed. Tested. In that order." Nobody is speculating. We're taking a direct quote from a reliable source and applying it. Personally, I don't like it--I think it's silly that Sylar would have frozen a dead body rather than, say the bowl of milk that was on the table, but my opinion is neither here nor there. All that matters is that Joe and Aron confirmed a long-standing question. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:39, 8 February 2009 (EST)
- I had never seen this Interview. I was actually talking about another one. The italicized "exactly" seems suspicious though. Ikkian 23:02, 8 February 2009

Condensation

In Trust and Blood did anyone notice that when Tracy had her hand behind her back and activated her power, 'steam' rose from her hand? In reality, the condensed air would have sunk downward, as the fog does when you open your freezer on a humid day. Not too important, just bugged me. Dracomaster4 08:21, 11 February 2009 (EST) Depends how hot it was, if the air was heated enough wouldn't it become hot and rise, with whatever condensation left over falling.--Steelymcbeam 03:25, 25 February 2009 (EST)

Examples

Anyone else thinks the examples should be changed back? Putting sequences is a good way the effect of the ability, but since the selected examples should be down to eight images, it takes place of different examples. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:04, 17 February 2009 (EST)

Better powers?

Did anyone see at the end of the preview for next.....next weeks show when she was surrounded with water and a bunch of agents. Then a few seconds later for a split second they showed a bunch of icicles everywhere all the men frozen it seems to me she obviously evolved her powers she probably like charged it up and let go a huge blast of cold air from her body. I had to rewind it a few times. to finally pause it right at the moment cause it was for a split second they showed it.--Icykidd 22:32, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

Name Change ~ Ice Mimicry

Now that we seen that Tracy can turn her whole body into ice, shouldn't this be renamed to ice mimicry, or should Sylar and James Walker have freezing and Tracy have ice mimicry.

Tracy can turn her whole body into ice (as Elisa and Donald Essex have in GNs and a Webisodes, therefore sticking to the mimicry name)
Tracy can produce ice from her body, although she admittedly needs water, (Donald Essex has been shown to produce vast amounts of water from his body.
Now, I know I'm going to get lots of arguments saying that water has the same molecular formula as water, but (remember I'm rubbish at science) it could (somehow) change the melting point.
Donald Essex and Elisa can reform after the turn into water (judging by Tracy's blink I would assume she could as well) --IronyUTC CH 15:07, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

Freezing was explicitly named on Nathan's files.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 15:08, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
- There have been many examples of ability development, Nathan could have believed it to be freezing then (as he only knew what we knew, which was that she froze stuff), but now we have found out that it is really ice mimcry. --IronyUTC CH 15:12, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
  - A namechange is not possible if the name to be used have no any canon sources. Freezing is considered a canon because it was explicitly named in the show, while Ice Mimicry wasn't stated in any case.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 15:16, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
    - In the namechange bar (at the top right) Number 5 is descriptions (for example: ability replication, dehydration are all descriptions of abilities), just as ice mimicry would be --IronyUTC CH 15:21, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
      - They are desciptive abilities because there are no canon sources for the name of the abilities unlike Freezing.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 16:49, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
        As I've outlined above, if that is what it was believed to be at the time it would have been freezing as Nathan would know no better than us what her ability is. (And just to add to my point above it is clearly mimicry as she becomes ice). --IronyUTC CH 16:58, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
        Yes, a namechange right now won't be necessary yet. We may get further information about what happened to Tracy on the next episode.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 17:20, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
        Yeah, we have to wait for the next episode (I do not believe that Tracy died). She can do more things with the power, type regenerate maybe... That blinking at the end of the episode was suspected...--Gabrielense 17:42, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
- According to the naming convention, a canon source trumps any descriptive names. It was seen on screen (a canon source) that her ability is "freezing". Regardless of what develops, the name was also described by a scientific source (Nathan via Pinehearst). So there's no grounds to rename. I'm taking down the rename tag.--Bob (talk) 20:28, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

I don't understand, because Nathan was the one who named the ability and he wouldn't understand it fully! He obviously didn't know that most abilities would eventually evolve.

Who says Nathan named the power? I think he named the power just as much as he took all the pictures in those files. I can't remember exactly, but I believe much of the information from those files came from the files at Primatech and/or Pinehearst (I guess Nathan had access to his mother and father's files, or at least those that didn't burn in the dual fires). But even still, even if Nathan named the abilities himself (which is highly unlikely, in my opinion), he is still more of an expert on abilities than any of us are. It's also a canon source, which absolutely trumps any fan theorizing and postulating. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:36, 2 April 2009 (EDT)

Clarification

Was Tracy's cold snap due to her building up all that cold in her body while she was under the lamps? -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 00:59, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

Possibly, I prefer to think that her ability adapted to the extreme heat and became able to function at higher temperatures. Increasing it's power at lower temperatures - i.e. the cool 68 degrees Tracy mentioned.--Steely McBeam - (talk) 01:05, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

I agree. Expanding upon what Steelymcbeam was saying, Tracy's powers are evolving. Remember when they put those heavily-insulated gloves over her hands in the first episode of Fugitives. Didn't she shatter them in Building 26 or something like that. Peter and herself suggested that can she could propel cryokinetic (I don't know what else to call it) energy like Elle could electricity. She almost did it in Trust and Blood. At the beginning, it was so hot in her cell, she couldn't even think about ice. And in Cold Snap, though it was a small cloud it was there. And then later in the episode, she was able to project an seemingly-omnidirectional, almost instaneous "cold snap" that froze everything in the garage including herself. Sylar couldn't even do something like that. And as we all now, he pretty much gains control of an ability immediately (with the expection of electric manipulation). I don't think she's even dead. Titan3510 18:39, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

New Image

I really do not like this new image. All you can see is just, blue. You have to look really close to see Tracy standing there. Any one agree with me?-- Catalyst » My talk Page- 16:47, 29 March 2009 (EDT)

Is this any better? I really don't know, tell me what you think. -- Psilaq R.- \m/ -_- \m/- 17:03, 29 March 2009 (EDT)
- Actually yes it is. Good job.-- Catalyst » My talk Page- 17:32, 29 March 2009 (EDT)
  - I think it actually shouldn't be photoshopped... But until we find a better catch, this one has to stick I think... Although I think "Cold Snap" was a really good episode for images about Freezing. -- Meteoritu 22:52, 29 March 2009
    - Just about every image on this site has been altered in some way or another, whether it's color correcting, watermark masking, or just plain removing parts of images that don't matter so much. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:59, 29 March 2009 (EDT)
      - For the record, I didn't 'shop this image. I GIMP'd it. -- Psilaq R.- \m/ -_- \m/- 21:29, 29 March 2009 (EDT)
        I personally don't like the new image, all you can see now is white, whereas before all you could see was blue... The "Cold Snap" picture is probably the best example of the power imho. Dean 22:48, 29 March 2009 (EDT)
The picture is shooped lol! but im fine with it, its just basically enhancing it, no harm done --Lolwut 14:59, 30 March 2009 (EDT)
- It looks shopped, but when I watched it in England it look more similar than the blue one, in England it was quite light --IronyUTC CH 15:37, 1 April 2009 (EDT)

Would'nt one of Micah running from the ice or right as he closes the door be better it's not easy to tell what is happening in the current pic --EmpathicMimic0

- - Not really. --Lolwut 15:54, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
    - Though the picture does look better, i still don't care for the actual picture. Does any one think this is a good picture?-- Catalyst · Talk · HL 21:09, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
      - It's not a bad picture. However, Image:Tracy tries to save Micah(2).JPG is the best image I've seen for this ability. I think it's very clear, it was an extremely memorable scene, and it definitely shows freezing at its best. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:43, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Tracy or Barbara?

We're discussing whether or not the character shown in An Invisible Thread is Tracy or Barbara at Talk:Tracy Strauss... please don't add information related information to the freezing page just yet.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:56, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

"Information-related information?" What's that?--ERROR 20:07, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

Really Needed? Really?

This is about, the image of Tracy turning from water into herself. I don't think this should be in the article since it doesn't really have anything to do with freezing.--Scorvi12 03:39, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

It's pretty obvious that the woman in An Invisible Thread was Tracy, and her ability is freezing. So until her ability is changed, this is where the example belongs.--Laudo 20:20, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

THE Discussion. Ability Development, or New Power?

Lets get this over with. Personally I think what makes the most logical sense is that Tracy's ability has always been what we are seeeing, some sort of water control. Making it a seperate ability from freezing and water mimicry altogether. We know from other character like Ted, Matt Parkman, Jr., Peter, and others that abilities are affected by the mindset and emotions of the user. So Tracy was simply unable to access the other aspects of her ability (rather than these being new aspects) when she was a "colder" person. Micah comes, inspires her, she "warms" up to him, and now she can use this part of her power (which will likely lead to her being able to control and become steam as well). Some of you might not like it, but this is how abilities have been written since the beginning. They have always been emotion and personality based. I vote we create a new article for this ability. It seems only hurtful to leave the topic undiscussed IN the articles for the most part, as this is more likely to be an answer someone is seeking since it was one of the cliffhangers from the finale. --Action Figure 13:01, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

I agree, I think Tracy's ability has always been something other than that, but she could only access the freezing part of it. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:47, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

An Invisible Thread

So over at Talk:Tracy Strauss, the consensus has been reached that the woman in the finale was Tracy. So, until her ability is changed (if it ever is), can't we mention in her section that she can turn into water now? We have an image of it in the examples, so why not mention it? IT was the 'big' cliffhanger of the season, so no doubt people will want answers, and the may come here to get them. --Laudo 12:28, 6 May 2009 (EDT)

Water mimicry

It's not the same ability as freezing. The last image with Tracy's splashy return should not be there. -- Altes 13:21, 6 May 2009 (EDT)

See above. Tracy's ability is listed as Freezing for now, and this was an example of whatever her ability is. So until her listing is changed, the image should stay, in my opinion. --Laudo 17:03, 6 May 2009 (EDT)
- We are not even sure it's Tracy. I know, I know, we have discussed it before, but... -- Altes 11:34, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
  - Every page with talk relevant to the discussions has at least one post with a confirmation that it is Tracy. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:03, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
    - Its an odd ability, they appear to be based on emotional status or mental status at points. Tracy was an Ice Queen and only knew how to be cold, but when Mica talked to her she realized that she did not have to be such a person. In that way she found a new way to use her ability. Water mimicry? probably not the best name, it is temperature based but with turning into a liquid it could be seen as changing of states. The human body is naturally solid but it is made up mainly of water. Using her ability she is able to turn her entire body into water as well as into Ice. Maybe we will see her turn into a gas at one point but so far she has moved from solid to liquid. Might be matter manipulation. If it had something to do with temperature I would think she could have broken out of the heat prison due to her sweating. --DontEatRawHagis 00:28, 10 May 2009 (EDT)
      - Matter manipulation is definitely out of the table, it would mean she can manipulate everything there is, everything that is matter. Her ability is clearly restricted to water, even if in its three states. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:13, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

- - - Just looked at the wikipedia pages for freezing and melting they can be called Crystallization and an increase in Molecular Vibrations respectively. She has the power to cause Crystallization in both herself and others(ie freezing) but seems now only to cause an increase in Molecular Vibrations in herself, sort of how Alex Mac in that Nickelodeon show could turn into a puddle. MAybe these will help discern a new name for her ability. --DontEatRawHagis 13:05, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

I miss the old good Sylar

He was so good and badass with freezing... -- Altes 06:20, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

That he was...Season 1 Sylar was pretty much the most badass villain on television. I think it was because he was surrounded in a lot of mystery. Now that they've delved into his life, he's become common and to well known. I think they should have killed him off in the first season. It would have saved him from "jumping the shark". -Vampirate68 20:32, 10 July 2009 (EDT)
- Well, maybe they should have not. Sylar's return was brilliant. It was Volume Three that ruined everything, but now... Can't wait for Volume Five, huh? -- Altes 02:09, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
  - I agree with you Altes, V3 Sylar wasn't the greatest, but V5 should be pretty cool.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 02:16, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
  - :) -- Altes 09:59, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
    - V2 Sylar was pretty good as well. The whole not having powers thing was pretty cool too. Maybe they should have had him return in the end of V2, but just made him dissipear again, becoming a guest star again. I think it would have made his character mysterious again. V3 Sylar was just too wimpy. -Vampirate68 09:12, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
      - Having an invincible villain is cool, but it should not last for too long. Arthur was killed off. Samson, I believe, used to be very powerful. Linda Tavara was killed. But Sylar lives no matter what. But, like I said, can't wait until Volume 5, I'm glad they've made something unusual. -- Altes 09:59, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
        They should have given him a power that dealt with force fields or something like that and not RCR. Sylar was cooler when he wasn't invincible as he actually thought about his plans, instead of just charging in. -Vampirate68 14:01, 12 July 2009 (EDT)

this will be good against transportation and space-time manipulation

Freezing could be the only way of killing somebody with transportation and space time manipulation but only if the person has not had time to respond. 50000JH

If the person has no time to respond, a bullet can do the job too. Mateussf 13:27, 9 September 2009 (EDT)

Or phasing, if you can sneak up to the person.

AltesUTC CH

Well doesn't that apply to anything? If you've got the element of surprise, you don't even need a power to kill an evolved human! I don't think Hiro would respond well to a knife in the back. With Rapid Cell Regeneration and Impenetrable Skin being exceptions, of course :P--Kooliki 22:04, 3 October 2009 (EDT)

In the sense of abilities. --50000JH 10:08, 1 October 2009 (EDT)50000JH

Tracy issue

Okay. The reason for my thinking is that Tracy is no longer limited to just freezing things, she can now transform her entire body into water and project water (Similar to Water Mimicry). I would suggest Hydrokinesis because by definition, it is the control over water (including temperature). The only reason I think Tracy should be classified as having a different power is because no other character has displayed the same aspects of her ability. The other characters with the ability Freezing have only demonstrated the ability to lower the temperature of selected targets. Tracy, on the other hand, can mimic, control, and freeze water. Proposition for a name change/merge/creation of a new ability should wait until season 4 starts, but I'm just throwing this out there now. Comments?--Bender 21:08, 15 September 2009 (EDT)

Tracy can also freeze objects that contain no water, so I'd rather say she has two different powers - freezing and water mimicry. AltesUTC CH
- Just a theory, but maybe she makes some water infiltrate the object before freezing it. Mateussf 16:08, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
  - No need for such a giant title, I've shrinked it. Now for the subject, I do agree that Tracy's ability no longer fits freezing as it is, but seeing that no other water mimics (Elisa, Essex, liquid man) showed cold and ice related abilities, I don't think Tracy should be moved over to water mimicry. That still leaves the issue of what to call her ability, so far she's shown water mimicry effects and freezing effects, accounting for control over water and temperature (since she has frozen things without water). I fear we may end up with "Tracy's ability". Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:42, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
    - Whats bad about Hydrokinesis?-- By Danko CH 16:45, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
      - Yeah, Hydrokinesis sounds good.Catalyst · Talk · HL 16:46, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
        It doesn't cover the freezing part of her ability, not entirely. She has frozen things that had no water in it. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:18, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
        Such as...(flowers and people contain water)-- By Danko CH 17:23, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
        IE is right. She did freeze the tag on her stolen clothes in Cold Snap. I guess Hydrokinesis isn't the best name for it.Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:28, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
        A shame I like it-- By Danko CH 17:35, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
        She also froze her telephone when she panicked over killing the reporter, when she was trying to turn herself in. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:19, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
        Let's not forget that there is water in the very air we breathe so, there is water (however little there may be) on all the objects that have been frozen by Tracy, so Hydrokinesis is not a totally invalid name to call the ability she possesses. However, I would also propose Hydro-cryokinesis to deal with the "freezing" aspect of her ability if you think that the small amount of water idea is too far fetched. --Bender 21:58, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
Regarding a name change: we were given a name for Tracy's ability in a canon source. We can redefine the limits of her ability and tell how it's evolved, but I really don't think we should change the name of it until we have some confirmation that that the power is actually a different or new power. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:19, 16 September 2009 (EDT)
- The best way to exaplain it is that her ability has never been freezing, though it looked a lot like it due to ability homology. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:50, 17 September 2009 (EDT)
  - Or maybe we should leave it as freezing after all. Edward can also produce electrical arcs with his ability, although it seems to have no connection with seeing the variables of situations and moving oneself to the selected outcome. AltesUTC CH
    - Actually, there is. By moving himself to the location so fast, he could pick up a lot of stactic electricity through friction, normally that would do anything (otherwise Daphne could also zap people), but since his ability involves probability, he can use probability to make the unlikely likely and so on. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:13, 17 September 2009 (EDT)
  - Explaining the phenomenon with the idea that Tracy never had the ability of freezing at all is not a good idea at all. Her power has been confirmed to be freezing numerous times. She definitely froze things. Her power is now evolving. She does not have a new power, just a power that has new limits and capabilities. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:14, 17 September 2009 (EDT)
    - Thing is, becoming water makes no sense in an ability named freezing. It's related to it, but it doesn't go with the name. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:39, 17 September 2009 (EDT)

Water manipulation or H2O manipulation (so noob-like) would fit if her ability really is evolving from Solid(Freezing) -> Liquid (Water) -> Then definitely the end will be Gas.

Reply to Danko: "Such as...(flowers and people contain water)."

When Tracy tried to drown Noah inside a car. She manage to seal the car by freezing the holes with ice. (By "holes", I mean anything that would cause the water to come out) --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 16:33, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

I think Tracy should be removed from this page and given her own ability page. Clearly she can do more than freze things. Like IE said, this seems like a case of Ability Homology. Her power seemed like freezing, but was actually that and more. Unless we completely rename this page and note the fact that James Walker and Sylar never advanced their abilities as far as Tracy... --Skullman1392 01:30, 6 October 2009 (EDT)

Tracy has been confirmed to have an ability called "freezing". We shouldn't be determining whether or not she has the same ability as others, but what the limits of the ability are. Similarly, we wouldn't remove Arthur from the page about telepathy simply because he hasn't cast an illusion, or Maury from the page because he hasn't painted the future. Abilities develop for some characters, but the name of the ability doesn't change. That doesn't mean we should remove the character from the page, either--it means we update the limits of the ability. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:59, 6 October 2009 (EDT)

Well then, the limits need to be updated, if we're leaving them all on the same page. I would do it, but I don't really know how to write it... --Skullman1392 11:59, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

Prodigals, part 1

The graphic novel clearly states she has water and ice manipulation abilities, can we now change the name to cold water and ice manipulation. daevon 07:28, 17 November 2009 (EST)

The graphic novel doesn't state that, but the intro page does. The intro page is not written by any of the writers or graphic novel crew, so it isn't a canon source. --Radicell 07:31, 17 November 2009 (EST)
- It is a more accurate name for her ability than the one we currently have though. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:54, 17 November 2009 (EST)
  - I agree, I think Tracy's power should be Water and ice manipulation. It does indeed describe her power in more detail than Freezing does. I know many people aren't fans of splitting pages, but I've been thinking her power should be categorized as something other than Freezing since we learned she could manipulate and mimic water as well. --Bender 17:47, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    - water and ice manipulation sounds the most accurate. It describes her ability best. daevon 18:55, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      - I'm very torn because I really like the name "water and ice manipulation". However, I also believe that we should stick to canon (and near-canon) sources. The introduction to a graphic novel is not such a source. Nathan's files, as seen in Dual, are a canon source. Begrudgingly, I think we should keep "freezing" until we receive a canon or near-canon source that renames the ability. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:57, 17 November 2009 (EST)

This has been discussed elsewhere, but it deffinately applies here: This section states:

When a possible name for an ability appears in a canon, near-canon, or secondary source, it is important to consider whether the name describes the ability itself or merely one or more of its effects or applications
As a general rule, for a possible name to be considered the name of an ability, it should include at least all aspects of the ability which have been displayed; otherwise, it is considered to be the name of an aspect or effect of the ability.

Freezing is only an aspect of her ability and does not fully describe what she can do. Therefore Freezing is not and accurate name for her ability. It describes James Walker's ability fully, but Tracy needs to be split from this page and given a new ability page (saying that James Walker was/would be able to mimic and control water is as speculative as saying that Rachel Mills will learn to control time as well). This page does not need a name change, but Tracy needs to have a new ability page called Water and ice manipulation. --Skullman1392 00:49, 18 November 2009 (EST)

I think Skullman has a point, because the Company named Jeremy's ability before he discovered he could drain life - therefore, his power is more than just a "healing touch". Tracy's ability was named before she was shattered by Danko, so her ability is more than freezing, too. But still, I'm opposed against renaming any of these abilities, because there are other examples when a name doesn't properly describe an ability - gravitation manipulation, electric manipulation etc. These names are too wide, and the possessors of these abilities displayed very few effects. And it's okay... Dura canon, sed canon. Let it be. AltesUTC CH

I wanna draw some attention to how the intro page worded it. "Finally finding acceptance and freedom with her water and ice manipulation abilities." Abilities. With an S. I think we can keep Freezing and add a Water manipulation page, and accept that she has two separate (though connected) abilities. This extra page would also include Donald Essex since he can do more than just mimic water properties.--Riddler 01:37, 18 November 2009 (EST)
- I believe there were other examples like "telepathic abilities" or "healing abilities", I should look for them AltesUTC CH
It should also be noted that an intro has been used to name an ability. Talk:Bone_spike_protrusion. I don't see why it wouldn't apply here.--OutbackZack 05:57, 18 November 2009 (EST)
- The difference is that with the spikes, the GN source was a higher level than the previous name ("spike protrusion", which was a descriptive name). However, here we already have a level-1 name ("freezing"), which cannot change unless another level-1 name shows up. --Radicell 06:02, 18 November 2009 (EST)
  - But the level 1 name is outdated. It can only apply to her ability up until that point. Afterwards her ability has drastically change and a new description has been released. Even if it is a level 2 source. We need to not only factor in the level of the sources, but the time of reference as well.This isn't the first time we went from a level 1 to a level 2 Talk:Electric_manipulation --OutbackZack 06:05, 18 November 2009 (EST)
    - I'm all for "Water and Ice manipulation", Freezing on Nathan's files was correct at that time, but has since been outdated with the development of the ability. And if someone doesn't know exactly what an ability is, their say shouldn't count as cannon. Take Edgar for example, he calls Peter an empath, meaning he has empathic mimicry, although we all know that he has ability replication. He got it wrong. --mc_hammark 15:05, 18 November 2009 (EST)
      - I want to repeat that I believe we can create a page for Water manipulation and keep Freezing as it is, include Donald Essex on the Water manipulation page, and accept that Tracy has two connected abilities and put her on both pages.--Riddler 18:10, 18 November 2009 (EST)
        I would be all for it too. Anything to make it clear that "freezing" isn't her only ability. --OutbackZack 18:18, 18 November 2009 (EST)
        I don't go with that, it would be the same as saying she has two abilities. No one has more than one natural ability. What she does have is an ability with multiple effects. Matt has telepathy, yet he can make others do as he wishes, make people forget stuff, make people see stuff is not there, make people don't see stuff it is there, see the future... It's the same with Tracy, though the link with between the different effects of her ability aren't as clear. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:27, 18 November 2009 (EST)
        
        I would be in favour of this change, simply because it's a more accurate name for her ability then the current one. The fact the older name is used in an episode shouldn't really matter if that name is unsuited for the purpose, as it seems to be here. For example, let's say Danko has the ability of Pyrokinesis, which has been clearly demonstrated. An episode names it as being Freezing, while it's called Pyrokinesis in a GN. Should we follow the pyramid and use what would clearly be a very wrong name, just because it's been in an episode? Clearly not. Why, then, would we do it here? The difference in names is less extreme, but ultimately it's a case of the same thing- less canonical but more accurate (Water Manipulation), vs more canonical and less accurate (Freezing). Radicell and Ryan's stance seems to lead to the former, but since the ultimate goal of these articles seems to be to be as accurate as possible, I suggest we opt for the latter. Not least because the point about Nathan's files, and the Company's AT for Jeremy being true at that time has merit. They were correct at the time because, as far as the authors knew, that was all they could do. Since they've since been proven wrong in that belief, at least in Tracy's case, the names we use shouldn't cling to them. That's my opinion, anyway. Swm 18:19, 19 November 2009 (EST)

@@ Line 419: / Line 419: @@
 ******I would be all for it too. Anything to make it clear that "freezing" isn't her only ability. --[[User:OutbackZack|OutbackZack]] 18:18, 18 November 2009 (EST)
 *******I don't go with that, it would be the same as saying she has two abilities. No one has more than one natural ability. What she does have is an ability with multiple effects. Matt has [[telepathy]], yet he can [[Persuasion|make others do as he wishes]], make [[Mental manipulation|people forget stuff]], make people [[Illusion|see stuff is not there]], make people [[Nerve manipulation|don't see stuff it is there]], [[Precognition|see the future]]... It's the same with Tracy, though the link with between the different effects of her ability aren't as clear. [[User:Intuitive Empath|Intuitive Empath]] - [[User talk:Intuitive Empath|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Intuitive Empath|Contributions]] 18:27, 18 November 2009 (EST)
-*******I would be in favour of this change, simply because it's a more accurate name for her ability then the current one. The fact the older name is used in an episode shouldn't really matter if that name is unsuited for the purpose, as it seems to be here. For example, let's say Danko has the ability of Pyrokinesis, which has been clearly demonstrated. An episode names it as being Freezing, while it's called Pyrokinesis in a GN. Should we follow the pyramid and use what would clearly be a very wrong name, just because it's been in an episode? Clearly not. Why, then, would we do it here? The difference in names is less extreme, but ultimately it's a case of the same thing- less canonical but more accurate (Water Manipulation), vs more canonical and less accurate (Freezing). Since the ultimate goal of these articles seems to be to be as accurate as possible, I suggest we opt for the latter. Not least because the point about Nathan's files, and the Company's AT for Jeremy being true ''at that time'' has merit. They were correct at the time because, as far as the authors knew, that was all they could do. Since they've since been proven wrong in that belief, at least in Tracy's case, the names we use shouldn't cling to them. That's my opinion, anyway. [[User:Swmystery|Swm]] 18:19, 19 November 2009 (EST)
+*******I would be in favour of this change, simply because it's a more accurate name for her ability then the current one. The fact the older name is used in an episode shouldn't really matter if that name is unsuited for the purpose, as it seems to be here. For example, let's say Danko has the ability of Pyrokinesis, which has been clearly demonstrated. An episode names it as being Freezing, while it's called Pyrokinesis in a GN. Should we follow the pyramid and use what would clearly be a very wrong name, just because it's been in an episode? Clearly not. Why, then, would we do it here? The difference in names is less extreme, but ultimately it's a case of the same thing- less canonical but more accurate (Water Manipulation), vs more canonical and less accurate (Freezing). Radicell and Ryan's stance seems to lead to the former, but since the ultimate goal of these articles seems to be to be as accurate as possible, I suggest we opt for the latter. Not least because the point about Nathan's files, and the Company's AT for Jeremy being true ''at that time'' has merit. They were correct at the time because, as far as the authors knew, that was all they could do. Since they've since been proven wrong in that belief, at least in Tracy's case, the names we use shouldn't cling to them. That's my opinion, anyway. [[User:Swmystery|Swm]] 18:19, 19 November 2009 (EST)

Talk:Freezing: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 23:22, 19 November 2009

Contents

Rename

Vote to determine consesus and restate our arguments

Arguments

Consensus

Tracy Strauss

Should we call Pyrokenisis "heating?"

Image

Icing?

Cryokinesis and Freezing (Should be divided in 2 pages)

James Walker

CBR Interview does not confirm Cryokinesis as name

New naming citation?

Speculative

Condensation

Examples

Better powers?

Name Change ~ Ice Mimicry

Clarification

New Image

Tracy or Barbara?

Really Needed? Really?

THE Discussion. Ability Development, or New Power?

An Invisible Thread

Water mimicry

I miss the old good Sylar

this will be good against transportation and space-time manipulation

Tracy issue

Prodigals, part 1

Navigation menu

Talk:Freezing: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 23:22, 19 November 2009

Rename

Vote to determine consesus and restate our arguments

Arguments

Consensus

Tracy Strauss

Should we call Pyrokenisis "heating?"

Image

Icing?

Cryokinesis and Freezing (Should be divided in 2 pages)

James Walker

CBR Interview does not confirm Cryokinesis as name

New naming citation?

Speculative

Condensation

Examples

Better powers?

Name Change ~ Ice Mimicry

Clarification

New Image

Tracy or Barbara?

Really Needed? Really?

THE Discussion. Ability Development, or New Power?

An Invisible Thread

Water mimicry

I miss the old good Sylar

this will be good against transportation and space-time manipulation

Tracy issue

Prodigals, part 1

Navigation menu

Search