Help talk:Naming conventions

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Power Name Origination

Name	Level of source	Explanations and references
Ability absorption	Near-canon	The name was explicitly given on a primatech file in From the Files of Primatech, Part 4.
Ability augmentation	Near-canon	Sean Fallon calls Paulette "an augmenter" (The Kill Squad, Part 3).
Ability replication	Descriptive	None
Accelerated probability	Near-canon	None
Acid secretion	Near-canon	"Acid secretion" is explicitly listed on Leonard's Assignment Tracker profile at primatechpaper.com.
Acidic blood	Secondary	"Acidic blood" was confirmed to be Mary's ability by graphic novel writer Bill Hooper.
Activation and deactivation	Descriptive	None
Adoptive muscle memory	Canon	Mohinder explicitly states this name (The Line).
Age shifting	Near-canon	Ivan Spektor calls the Russian an "age shifter".
Age transferal	Secondary	In an interview, writer Tom Inkel says, "Leona's power is to transfer aging".
Alchemy	Near-canon	This ability has been explicitly named "alchemy" in From the Files of Primatech, Part 1.
Alejandro's ability	Possessor	None
Animal control	Secondary	In Faction Zero, Markus....
Appearance alteration	Near-canon	"Appearance alteration" is the ability name listed in Connie's assignment tracker profile.
Aquatic breathing	Canon	EPIC explicitly names the ability "aquatic breathing" (Under the Mask).
Aura absorption	Near-canon	Linda Tavara refers to the bands of energy she sees as auras.
Belief induction	Secondary	Alethea Thorn's ability name is listed in her Heroes: Survival profile.
Bliss and horror	Near-canon	Text from It Takes a Village, Part 1 explicitly names this ability.
Bone spike protrusion	Near-canon	The intro to Under the Bridge, Part 2 states: "Perrin's ability activates on instinct, sending bone spikes in every direction".
Carbon isolation and formation	Secondary	Cole's Heroes: Survival profile explicitly names the power as "carbon isolation and formation".
Chlorine gas exudation	Near-canon	Sylar says, "Tina Ramierez. Exudes chlorine gas instead of carbon dioxide" (Viewpoints).
Clairsentience	Canon	A file in the Genesis Files is called "clairsentience". Also, Bridget Bailey explicitly references Dr. Suresh's Activating Evolution chapter on "clairsentience" when referring to her ability in an email (Heroes Evolutions).
Clairvoyance	Canon	"Clairvoyance" is explicitly named in the Genesis Files. Molly's tip in the Assignment tracker map confirms that she has this ability.
Cloaking	Common name	Cloaking is known from Star Trek as an ability to hide something..
Cloning	Near-canon	The name is explicitly listed in Julien Dumont's assignment tracker profile. The introduction to Revolutionary War, Part 2 says that Evan creates clones.
Constriction	Near-canon	Agent Howard calls his partner a "Constrictor" (Going Postal, Part 1).
Crumpling	Near-canon	Marcus uses the word "crumple" in Normal Lives.
Cyberpathy	Canon	EPIC explicitly names this ability "cyberpathy" (Under the Mask).
Danger sensing	Near-canon	None
David's ability	Possessor	None
Dehydration	Descriptive	Based on descriptions in Golden Handshake.
Dimension hopping	Secondary	Kelli Wheaton's ability name is listed in her Heroes: Survival profile.
Dimensional storage	Secondary	Store's ability name is listed in his Heroes: Survival profile.
Disintegration	Descriptive	None
Disintegration touch	Near-canon	Felicia says she has a "disintegration touch" (Career Choices).
Dream manipulation	Near-canon	"Dream manipulation" is explicitly named in Sanjog's tip in the Assignment Tracker Map.
Elasticity	Common name	None
Electric manipulation	Near-canon	This ability has been explicitly and expertly named by Elle's Assignment Tracker profile.
Electrical absorption	Near-canon	Mohinder says that the teenage patient can absorb electrical currents (Blackout, Part 2).
Elemental control	Common name	None
Empathic manipulation	Near-canon	Empathic manipulation is explicitly named in Syn's Assignment Tracker profile.
Empathic mimicry	Near-canon	"Empathic Mimcry"[sic] is explicitly named in Peter's tip in the Assignment Tracker Map.
Empathy	Near-canon	None
Energy absorption, transference, and redirection	Near-canon	The name was explicitly given in Mindy's Assignment Tracker profile and in From the Files of Primatech, Part 4.
Enhanced hearing	Canon	Explicitly named in Gabriel Gray's primatechpaper.com profile (Building 26).
Enhanced memory	Near-canon	Explicitly named in Matt Neuenberg's primatechpaper.com profile.
Enhanced strength	Canon	Knox's assignment tracker profile lists the ability as "enhanced strength" (The Butterfly Effect).
Enhanced strength and senses	Near-canon	The Heroes Reborn app explicitly names this ability as "enhanced strength and senses".
Enhanced synesthesia	Near-canon	The ability is explicitly called "enhanced synesthesia" in From the Files of Primatech, Part 1.
Enhanced teleporting	Secondary	Teleporter's ability name is listed in his Heroes: Survival profile.
Extraskeletal manipulation	Secondary	None
Fire breathing	Canon	Edgar's list names the ability "fire breathing". Also, the Bowmans are called "fire breathers" a number of times in Faction Zero.
Fire casting	Near-canon	The blazing homeless man is referred to as a "fire-casting evo" (Dirty Deeds).
Fireworks creation	Near-canon	Claire says that Detlev "created fireworks" (Save the Cheerleader, Destroy the World, Chapter 22).
Flight	Canon	Mohinder explicitly names it "Flight" in The Second Coming.
Forcefields	Near-canon	"Forcefields" is the name given in Rebellion, Part 3.
Freezing	Canon	Tracy's ability is explicitly listed on the file Nathan gives The President (Dual).
Future terrorist's ability	Possessor	The future terrorist was confirmed to be emitting a melting beam by artists Micah Gunnell and Beth Sotelo.
Gold mimicry	Descriptive	"Gold mimicry" describes what this ability does.
Granulation	Descriptive	Granulation describes what Gordon can do.
Gravitational manipulation	Near-canon	"Gravitational manipulation" is the ability name listed in Stephen Canfield's assignment tracker profile.
Green energy blast	Secondary	None
Healing	Canon	Hiro Nakamura calls his mother a healer (Our Father). Linda's notebook also explicitly lists Linderman's ability as "healing".
Healing touch	Canon	"Healing touch" is listed explicitly on Jeremy Greer's Assignment Tracker 2.0 profile (Tabula Rasa).
Health optimizing	Secondary	Marc is described as a "health optimizer" in his Heroes: Survival profile.
Heat generation	Canon	None
Illusion	Canon	Explicitly named by Candice in Kindred.
Image projection	Descriptive	"Image projection" describes all known aspects of Deitra's ability.
Impenetrable skin	Canon	The Haitian says that Samedi's "skin is impenetrable" (The Eclipse, Part 1).
Imprinting	Common name	"Imprinting" is a common name for what Joe Macon can do.
Induced radioactivity	Canon	"Induced Radioactivity" is explicitly named in the Genesis Files.
Inflammation	Descriptive	None
Intuitive aptitude	Canon	Explicitly named in Gabriel Gray's primatechpaper.com profile (Building 26).
Invisibility	Canon	Godsend refers to Claude as being invisible. Claude's Primatech file explicitly names the ability "invisibility" (From the Files of Primatech, Part 5).
Laser emission	Descriptive	Eric Doyle asks Michael about his lasers (Doyle).
Levitation	Near-canon	The introduction to History of a Secret says, "Abu Aswan has the power to levitate and move extremely heavy objects".
Lie detection	Canon	Sylar referred to Sue as a "lie detector" (Our Father).
Light absorption	Common name	Light absorption is a common name for Abe's ability.
Luke's ability	Possessor	None
Luminescence	Common name	Scientific description for glowing object.
Lung adaptation	Near-canon	In Berlin, Part 1, Devin describes Bianca's ability as being able to "adapt her lungs to any environment".
Magnetism	Canon	The Company's assignment tracker explicitly identifies the ability as "magnetism" (The Butterfly Effect).
Mass manipulation	Near-canon	Name of ability is specifically given in the Primatech files (From the Files of Primatech, Part 5).
Mediumship	Secondary	R.D. Hall called Ida May's power "mediumship" in an interview.
Melting	Canon	Described as "ability to melt" in Gabriel Gray's primatechpaper.com profile (Building 26).
Memory manipulation	Descriptive	None
Memory storage	Near-canon	None
Mental manipulation	Near-canon	René's ability is explicitly specified as mental manipulation on a Primatech ID badge in Graphic Novel:From the Files of Primatech, Part 8.
Metal mimicry	Descriptive	None
Microwave emission	Canon	Luke says his power is like a microwave (Trust and Blood).
Miko's ability	Possessor	None
Mist mimicry	Near-canon	A Matter of Trust says "He turned into mist" several times.
Nerve gas emission	Near-canon	Penny explicitly describes the ability as emitting "a nerve gas" in Faces, Part 1.
Nerve manipulation	Descriptive	None
Neurocognitive deficit	Canon	The term "neurocognitive deficit" is referred to in the Mozaic file (The Fix) and appears to match Anna's ability.
Non-biological duplication	Secondary	None
Oil secretion	Descriptive	None
Omnilingualism	Common name	None
Persuasion	Canon	Sylar refers to Eden's ability as "the power of persuasion" in Fallout; the power is also explicitly named in From the Files of Primatech, Part 1.
Phasing	Canon	Future Hiro says "D.L. can phase inside the buildings" in Five Years Gone.
Phoenix mimicry	Secondary	None
Plant growth	Near-canon	"Plant growth" is explicitly named in the chapter 1 of Purpose.
Plant manipulation	Near-canon	The Company's assignment tracker entry for Brendan Lewis explicitly calls his ability "plant manipulation".
Poison emission	Canon	Maya "emits a plague ... that makes people sick"--Tim Kring, episode commentary for The Kindness of Strangers; Maya uses the word "poison" to describe her ability in Powerless.
Possession	Near-canon	Claire says to Harold Esposito, "You can possess people." (Chapter 15 of Save the Cheerleader, Destroy the World).
Precognition	Canon	Eden refers to Isaac as "the precog" in Better Halves.
Precognitive dreaming	Near-canon	In From the Files of Primatech, Part 1, Angela's ability is explictly listed as precognitive dreaming.
Primal rage	Near-canon	Explicitly named by agent Tim Pope in the second iStory chapter for Primatech.
Probability computation	Near-canon	None
Puppet master	Canon	This ability is explicitly named in Edgar's list and in Eric Doyle's Assignment Tracker 2.0.
Pyrokinesis	Canon	Named explicitly in Flint's Assignment Tracker 2.0 profile (The Butterfly Effect).
Rapid cell regeneration	Canon	"Rapid cell regeneration" is explicitly named in the Genesis Files.
Rock formation	Near-canon	Dearing says that Gallegos "made rocks form out of thin air" (Dirty Deeds).
Sedation	Descriptive	None
Seismic burst	Secondary	None
Shape shifting	Canon	Both Sylar and Danko refer to James Martin as a "shape shifter" in Into Asylum.
Shattering	Secondary	iStory writer Ryan Gibson Stewart stated that Pearl and Trevor have the same ability, and it is meant to be called "shattering".
Shifting	Near-canon	None
Size alteration	Secondary	Size alteration is explicitly named in Eric Lee Harrison's Heroes: Survival profile.
Sound absorption	Near-canon	The agent says, "My special ability. My body absorbs all sound." (Going Postal).
Sound manipulation	Canon	The Company's assignment tracker on Jesse states his ability is "sound manipulation" (The Butterfly Effect..
Space-time manipulation	Canon	Hiro's ability is explicitly listed on the file Nathan gives The President (Dual).
Spider mimicry	Canon	Edgar's list explicitly names Caleb's ability.
Spontaneous combustion	Canon	This ability is explicitly named in Edgar's list. Also, in Boom, Noah explicitly states the ability name.
Super speed	Canon	Hiro tells Ando that "with super speed, [Daphne] is the world's greatest thief" (The Butterfly Effect). Edgar's list also explicitly names the ability.
Supercharging	Canon	Ando has said that he can "supercharge" another person's ability (Brave New World).
Technopathy	Near-canon	"Technopathy" is explicitly named in Micah's tip on the Assignment Tracker Map.
Telekinesis	Canon	Claude explicitly names this ability when asks Peter "which one of your sorry friends has telekinesis?" in Unexpected.
Telepathy	Canon	Explicitly listed in the Mozaic file (The Fix) and on the file Nathan gives The President (Dual).
Teleportation	Canon	"Teleportation" is the name of a file in The Genesis Files. Additionally, the interactive map and the assignment tracker map explicitly list "teleportation" as the name of the ability. Joanne says that Tommy is a teleporter (Odessa).
Telescopic vision	Near-canon	"Telescopic vision" is explicitly listed on Donna's Assignment Tracker profile at primatechpaper.com.
Temporal rewind	Secondary	"Temporal rewind" is explicitly named on the Heroes: Survival profile of John Mulligan, a character confirmed to belong to iStory writer Zach Wilson.
Terrakinesis	Near-canon	None
Umbrakinesis	Canon	None
Wall crawling	Common name	This is a common name for such an ability.
Water generation	Common name	None
Water mimicry	Near-canon	Noah says the liquid man can "mimic the density of water" and "can turn his body wholly into liquid" in Team Building Exercise.
Weather control	Canon	Alice says she thinks she can "control the weather". (1961).

Conflicting sources

I don't think it's happened yet, but I'd just like to raise this issue because with our luck, it will happen sooner than later. :) I'm thinking of "experts" in the world of Heroes (Mohinder and Chandra, the Company and Assignment Tracker 2.0, possibly Hiro as a manga guru, and perhaps the individual who actually holds the ability), and the situation of two "conflicting" sources. For instance, if we use a quote from an episode to name a power, but then an "expert" names it differently in a secondary source. Example: suppose Lukas Bahn shows up in an episode, and somebody says, "Wow! You have the power to detect evolved humans!" We would naturally name his ability "evolved human detection". But if he also has an accompanying Assignment Tracker 2.0 profile, suppose it says something different, like explicitly naming the power "ability sensing". I'm not sure our naming conventions cover such a situation, but may I posit that we use in-world "experts" over others, regardless of the source? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:44, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

• Good question. My opinion on this is when we look at how the name is given in a canon source. When the AT is shown on screen, it gives an explicit name to the ability, whereas someone else on the show can give a description of the same ability. I think if there's an explicit name, we use it, but if it's based on a description or coined term, we go with the explicit name. I do agree that there should be some difference between scientific/expert versus comic/manga knowledge. An example of this is with Mohinder naming Monica's ability versus Micah naming it. Micah and Hiro have a deep knowledge of comics/manga, so their terminology may differ with a more scientific name, such as something Mohinder or the Company would name it. I would say that the Company and Mohinder have devoted great amounts of research on abilities, so their terminology would be the most accurate. Hiro and Micah's terminology is better than a descriptive one, but since they're knowledge comes from comics/manga, it shouldn't be trumped by a respected source like Mohinder or the Company. --Bob (talk) 18:00, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Couldn't agree with you more. So experts trump descriptions, even if they're in a near-canon source. As well, the Sureshes and the Company trump comic geeks...but do comic geeks trump the users themselves? For instance, if Hiro says to Daphne, "You have super speed!" (which he pretty much has, but not with that exact quote), and Daphne says later, "I have enhanced speed," what do we use? I guess it would depend on the context (I say, as I answer my own question). For instance, if she said something silly like "Did you see how enhanced my speed was?", well that would be debatable. But if she said something like "My speed is enhanced by the power of the sun," that would be her demonstrating that she knows a bit about her own ability. Context. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:39, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
    • That's a good note to make is context. Monica, for instance, had no clue about her ability, so her description would most likely be way off. However, Sylar has a great understanding of what his ability is, so his description of it is very accurate. As for the near-canon source, I wouldn't want to say that something from Heroes Evolutions is valued more than something from an episode, but explicit names given in the AT's or GN's should be valued over vague descriptions given in episodes. I would want to say that if an ability is given an explicit name versus a descriptive name, then the explicit name should be valued. I don't really want to say that a near-canon source trumps a canon source, but if the canon source is a name derived from vague statements versus a Company AT that explicitly names an ability, I would prefer the explicit name.--Bob (talk) 18:53, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Hierarchy redux

So with the above section, we've determined that Scientific experts (Suresh, Company, possibly Pinehearst) trump Comic book geeks (Hiro and Micah), which trump descriptions by user, correct? Do we need to re-examine the conventions template and modify it to reflect our new standards? If we do, how would this be as a hierarchy?
Canon Expert (Sci and Comic book)
Canon Description Derivative
Common name
Description
Possessor --SacValleyDweller (talk) 01:34, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

• Ryan and Bob were debating scientific vs. comic book experts as regards to ability names, but I'm not sure it's really a new standard. They're just clarifying the existing viewpoint of scientific over comic book names when the status level is equal. I agree agree with that and the info. could probably be added to the help.
  However, I think the point Admin was making on Talk:Gravitational manipulation is a different issue, and that the following line of Help:Naming conventions#Ability names could be clarified/corrected: Names derived from a canon or near-canon description (invisibility from "Nobody sees me! I'm invisible!", flight from "I think I can fly!") should be treated as though the name is from a canon or near-canon source.
  We are not following this in the ability which was originally named "vortex creation", which is a name derived from an episode (canon) source that described Stephen Canfield's ability as to "create vortexes". Instead we are using the assignment tracker, a Heroes Evolutions (near-canon) source that explicitly named it as "gravitational manipulation". According to the existing guidelines, derived names are supposed to be treated as though they have equal level, but we are not doing that. Instead, we are using a reference that was explicitly made at near-canon level over a derived canon name.--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Well said, Miami. I don't think we need to redo the entire hierarchy or even to modify the guidelines very much. The guidelines are pretty clear and are well thought out. The above section simply takes the idea that in certain situations, a near-canon source would take precedence over a canon source. Canfield's ability is a perfect example: Meredith (reading from Company files) said in an episode (a canon source) that Canfield can create vortexes, so we used the name "vortex creation." Then the assignment tracker profile (a near-canon source) was released, and we used the name it gave instead of the name from the canon source. However, the reason for this is because the canon source never explicitly gave the name--we used a description based on words from a reliable scientific expert (the Company files) in a canon source. But the near-canon source is also a reliable scientific expert, only the name of the power is explicitly given, so we ended up using that name instead.

    As for modifying the help page, at the very most, we could add a bullet to the Guidelines for names derived from Heroes sources section. But even that is not necessary, in my opinion, so long as we look at each name individually and consider it on its own, which we do ad nauseum. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 03:54, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

    • Ok, good that we agree on the issue being discussed. However, I would like to note that I disagree that being explicitly given should mean that a higher-level source gets trumped by one of lower level. I think one reason that line of help guidelines I am referring to was written that way was because names/terminology based on words spoken in the episodes would be more familiar to viewers. Imho, that's one of the compromises made to make the wiki more accessible to those who only watch the show and that's more important than using an explicitly-cited name.--MiamiVolts (talk) 04:37, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
      • Just want to add here (mainly for those of us just joining us) that we do a similar thing with actual people's names. If there's a more commonly used name for someone, we keep using it even if a more explicit name is available later. That's why Sylar is still Sylar and not "Gabriel Gray", why "Eden McCain" didn't become "Sarah Ellis", and why Bob Bishop's name wasn't changed to "Robert Bishop".--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:53, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
      • I understand where you're coming from, but the problem comes from when we assign "levels" to how canonical a name is, and I'm guilty of this as well. In general, people use the words from a canon source, and form them as a description of an ability, then claim it's a canon source. It's true, it's from a canon source, but it's still a description, which would make it a level 5 on our little scale. However, the secondary sources from HE and GN's may explicitly state what an ability is called, which would be a much higher level. The issue lies with how we define these levels, which is discussed above. I feel that some abilities aren't named explicitly in a canon source (such as Stephen Canfield's ability), but are described in canon sources. This doesn't mean that it's a level 1 definition, it means that it's still a level 5, but from a canon source, which means it's a better description than something from a GN. However, if it is clearly defined in something higher (i.e. an explicit name or a name given by the user/Company/Mohinder, etc) then it has more precedent, and outranks it in importance. So, even though Stephen Canfield's ability is described in a canon source, it is not explicitly named, as it is on his assignment tracker. Similarly, Peter has called lightning by name in canon sources, even though there's the assignment tracker map tip that names it otherwise. If Peter described it as something else, then we would take into account the explicit name. However, Peter names the ability as such, so that is a canon source. Like I said, I'm guilty of stretching our rules for naming something based on canon sources (see precognitive dreaming), and that is still being highly discussed for what the name is. Ultimately, an ability should be named explicitly by the highest source. If a canon source doesn't do this, then the next highest source should be used. Hope that long explanation helps.--Bob (talk) 04:50, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
        • Ditto. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 04:55, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
        • I understand where you're coming from, Bob, but there's a difference between (1) describing an ability yourself, (2) taking words from a source and converting their tense to form an ability name, and (3) taking words from a source and using them to come up with a descriptive ability name. The first and third are descriptions (level 5), but the second could be level 1 as I still maintain "vortex creation" was. The name "body insertion" is a good example of level 5 paraphrasing as Future Peter saying he put his current self inside the body of Jesse Murphy is an example of a descriptive name since the term "insertion" cannot be directly derived from "inside" ("insertion" comes from "insert").--MiamiVolts (talk) 05:24, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

Checking to see what the 2 cents chipped in looks like and it looks like I got $5! ;) On topic, With regards to this, the hierarchy appears, at first glance, to imply that we favor we favor information from the canon source of eps. But then again, we have a few exceptions to that rule which seem to cause some battles on the talk pages. Im thinking, for clarity sake and more clearly establishing what we favor in deciding ability names, we need to revamp the hierarchy as I outlined above. Looking above and below, Im now thinking for clarity we might want to have the hierarchy look like this:

1. Canon Expert (on screen AT's & Company/Pinhearst, Mohinder, Comic book geeks, user descriptions in that order)
   
2. Near-Canon Expert
   
3. Canon Description Derivative
   
4. Near-Canon Description Derivative
   
5. Common name
   
6. Description
   
7. Possessor

I think some of the debates generated by new abilities would be quickly solved if our hierarchy was modified like that. --SacValleyDweller (talk) 01:45, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

• Thanks, SVD. Due to reasons stated on this page, my preference is something like:

1. Canon Expert (on screen AT's & Company/Pinehearst, scientists, comic book geeks, other characters who explicity name an ability in that order)
   
2. Canon Description Derivative
   
3. Near-Canon Expert
   
4. Near-Canon Description Derivative
   
5. Common name
   
6. Description
   
7. Possessor
   

I changed the order, removed user descriptions from the canon expert category, added other characters to that category, and generalized Mohinder into scientists.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:09, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

2nd reason

A second reason, and just as important, is that the levels themselves define a line of trust. A good example is if someone wrote a hardback novel in which the Company explicitly called Nathan's ability aerokinesis, we probably would not rename his ability such cause such novels are often much less canon than the show. We would most likely note it, but not use it as the name itself. The trust issue is also present with the assignment tracker. We don't know who writes all of the entries, but we do know from interviews that at least some of them were written by writers who are not main staff of the show. Thus, imho, aside from entries that are displayed on the show, the tracker remains near-canon and info. from it should be treated as such and not override names from descriptions voiced in the show of equal scientific authority.--MiamiVolts (talk) 05:06, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

• I don't think there's a question about using a hardback novel over an episode, or even Heroes Evolutions content. I think it really boils down to trusting near-canon sources more. I think the hierarchy helps us if there's a conflict with two explicitly named abilities in a canon and a near-canon source. For instance, in an episode, Mohinder says to Monica "I've identified your power as adoptive muscle memory." Three days later, her assignment tracker profile comes out and the power is listed as "photographic reflexes." Well, in that case, I think we would use Mohinder's description because it's from a canon source. On the other hand, in an episode, Sylar described one of his powers as being able to freeze things, so we call it freezing. However, Sylar never explicitly named the ability--if an assignment tracker for Tracy comes out and calls the power "cold manipulation", we would use that, despite the fact that it's not from a canon source. It's less about canon vs. near-canon, and more about explicit vs. descriptions. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 05:27, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Actually, that's not the same situation cause Sylar is not as authoritative a source as the Company when it comes to knowledge about abilities. Thus, there is an additional reason there. If it was the Company doing the describing in the first case instead of Sylar, we might have decided differently.--MiamiVolts (talk) 05:33, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
    • I'm not so sure Meredith was reading an actual description from the Company files when she was describing Canfield's ability, or if she was was simply telling what he could do. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 05:37, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
      • Deciding on the individual example is a separate issue from deciding on the guideline, Ryan. However, the files are right in front of Meredith and Sandra and we see them reading them. I don't think it needs to be clearer than that. It is still the Company's information being relayed, and also I was corrected that it was Sandra that did the talking.--MiamiVolts (talk) 05:54, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
        • But I could read Canfield's assignment tracker profile and say the exact same thing after reading it: "He creates vortexes and makes people disappear forever." It doesn't say that in the file, but that's the conclusion I could come up with.... Yes, an explicit canon name should win over an explicit near-canon name, but a description based on canon words should not win over a explicit name given in a near-canon source. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:09, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
          • 1) It's not the assignment tracker entry that Sandra read, it was Noah's copy of their Company files which presumably is more authoritative than the brief summary listed in the assignment tracker; 2) It is not just a description based on canon words, but canon words of changed tense. As I explained in the previous thread, there is a difference (this is not the same situation as "body insertion" which is a descriptive name).--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:19, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
            • Who is to say that one set of files is more authoritative than another? I'm sure there is more there, but all we've seen are fingerprints. Sandra said, "He creates vortexes. Makes people disappear forever." That is a description of what he does, not a name for what he does. "Gravitational manipulation," despite its flaws, is a title for what he does. One is explicit, the other is not. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:25, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
              • First off, Company file info. supposedly contains the most up-to-date information on a character, and new info. could mean a new name. The assignment tracker is someone else coming back later and creating a summary of that information and putting it in the computer. What Sandra said is a description of what he does, but it's info. from the Company and her words can be changed in tense to become a title for what he does. It is that principle to which I think that line of the help refers to, and I continue to think that a title being explicit doesn't give it priority over information that can be trusted more.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:08, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
                • Her words can be changed to become a title, but her words are still not a title. "Gravitational manipulation" is, and nobody is changing any words around or messing with tenses. Thus, "vortex creation" is a title that comes from fans but derived from a description in a canon source; "gravitational manipulation" is a title that comes from a near canon source. If a title is given explicitly, why wouldn't we trust it? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
                  • Cause the title comes from a near-canon and not a canon source--that's why I don't trust it as much.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:24, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
                    • So you would rather take a description from an episode and change it into a title than trust a title given in an assignment tracker profile simply because it's from Heroes Evolutions and not from an episode? Wow.... Thank goodness they showed several assignment tracker profiles in The Butterfly Effect! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:07, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
                      • Yes, a description someone said; thank goodness indeed! :) BTW, there is a secondary reason, which I mentioned in the prior thread--that doing so is a kind of compromise that helps to keep the wiki accessible to those that just watch the show.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:10, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
                        • I disagree on both points. I don't think we should compromise. I also don't think we should favor descriptions (spoken or written) of abilities over explicitly given names for those abilities. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:27, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
                          • Let's agree to disagree then. I've posted on Talk:Gravitational manipulation for others to come read this thread, and I asked Ted to weigh in on the change Bob and you proposed so that we can get some other opinions, and then check consensus if necessary.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:40, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
                          • I agree with Ryan definitely. I don't think we should favor descriptions over explicitly given names, it doesn't make sense to me. As for "keeping the wiki accessible to those that just watch the show", I don't know what you're talking about here. We document the show, the graphic novels, and virtually any other source of information. Everything is fair game and we have policies to determine which information is most reliable. If we were only interested in the show itself we wouldn't be documenting the abilities displayed in the graphic novels... and for instance Hana Gitelman's article would be much shorter.--Admin (talk) (01:26, 16 October 2008 (EDT))

2nd reason (part 2)

Just to be clear, this is not about normal descriptive names but names that are derived from spoken descriptions being trumped by an explicit name of less canonicity. I agree we shouldn't favor descriptions over explicitly given names. Descriptions are level 5, but to be clear level 5 is for descriptions users make and that is not what this discussion is about. "Flight" is a good example of an ability with level 1 in name origination. Peter says "I think I can fly" to Nathan in Genesis, and from fly we derived the name flight. Thus, we have a title which comes from a spoken description but is canon (level 1) nonetheless.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:43, 16 October 2008 (EDT)